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Old 11-07-2012, 01:16 PM   #51
edsonmassao
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My friend and I went to stage 2 in our cars, 2006 WRX, with similar parts: downpipe with de-catted tbe, K&N intake in his car (mine's using COBB SF airbox kit).

he made a protune in his car and I'm using an open source base map that needs more work and improvement; his car pulls more than mine, boost comes up early.

can you ride with a base map: yes. but in our example it's very clear how a protune makes the difference.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #52
Akroys
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If you go Invidia q300, Invidia Catless DP, and CAI, Your looking at around1500-1700 plus another chunk for a pro tune but you will gain roughly 28%hp so around 70hp. Thats a solid gain and that will get you to stage 2
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #53
WRXRATED7
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I just got an AP and flashed to Stage 1. I also picked up a Tsudo catless DP that I haven't installed yet so I can't wait to do that and flash to Stage 2. I'm curious how much of a difference a Cobb OTS Stage 2 map feels compared to a Protuned Stage 2? How much different are the results/gains on these setups?
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:47 AM   #54
isotopesope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRATED7 View Post
I just got an AP and flashed to Stage 1. I also picked up a Tsudo catless DP that I haven't installed yet so I can't wait to do that and flash to Stage 2. I'm curious how much of a difference a Cobb OTS Stage 2 map feels compared to a Protuned Stage 2? How much different are the results/gains on these setups?
cobb's ots stage 2 map is designed to be used with a catted DP. read the notes for their maps, and it clearly states a catless DP and their ots map will more than likely result in a visit from the boost creep, with his creepy boost spikes. yikes! shivers! agast!
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:05 PM   #55
coalslaw
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for stage 2, all you need is a full tbe system which is 3" Bell mouth downpipe & turboback exhaust(id recomend turboback over catback) then flashed from Cobb AP stage 2 with the correct map for your model. enjoy the car...meantime get whatever you want like ebcs ewg etc before you visit your tuner.. im suprised how much bs ppl tell you for ur stg2. it doesnt need much really for stage 2. and dont drive like a crazo kid thinking you'll be fine with the flash. it's just temporary till u get a tune.

Last edited by coalslaw; 11-09-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:11 PM   #56
WRXRATED7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotopesope View Post
cobb's ots stage 2 map is designed to be used with a catted DP. read the notes for their maps, and it clearly states a catless DP and their ots map will more than likely result in a visit from the boost creep, with his creepy boost spikes. yikes! shivers! agast!
My Tsudo DP is a divorced wastegate style. Would that make a difference?

http://tsudoperformance.com/index.ph...products_id=36
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:00 PM   #57
RoadKillDMD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRATED7

My Tsudo DP is a divorced wastegate style. Would that make a difference?

http://tsudoperformance.com/index.ph...products_id=36
Divorced WG vs bellmouth, you will see no differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isotopesope
cobb's ots stage 2 map is designed to be used with a catted DP. read the notes for their maps, and it clearly states a catless DP and their ots map will more than likely result in a visit from the boost creep, with his creepy boost spikes. yikes! shivers! agast!
Whether of not you will experience boost creep on the Cobb map is a toss up. It is not an absolute guarantee that you will even get boost creep. For example, I have been running a catless DP with a Cobb intake on Cobb stage 2 for months now with zero problems and zero boost creep.

If you get creep, you will need a custom tune. If you still get creep, you will need to either port your IWG on your turbo, or run an EWG setup. There will be no other way around it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:17 PM   #58
isotopesope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
Whether of not you will experience boost creep on the Cobb map is a toss up. It is not an absolute guarantee that you will even get boost creep. For example, I have been running a catless DP with a Cobb intake on Cobb stage 2 for months now with zero problems and zero boost creep.

If you get creep, you will need a custom tune. If you still get creep, you will need to either port your IWG on your turbo, or run an EWG setup. There will be no other way around it.
whether the boost creep haunts you or not, it is still stated in cobb's map notes:

** The Stage2 maps were developed using a COBB Tuning turbo-back exhaust system with a high-flow catalytic converter. An equivalent turbo-back exhaust system could also be used. If a lesser flowing turbo-back exhaust system is used then boost targets may not be achievable. These maps are NOT designed to be used with an aftermarket race downpipe that does not have a catalytic converter (i.e. catless). Doing so greatly increases the chance for boost spikes and boost creep.

via:
https://static.cobbtuning.com/cobbtu..._WRX_09-12.pdf


i have yet to install my DP, but went catted for this reason, plus i give a hoot. also, i plan on a protune, when i want one, not when i NEED one. that inexpensive catless pipe becomes a heck of a lot more expensive if you're dealing with porting, EWG conversions, and a protune just make it work.

Last edited by isotopesope; 11-09-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:46 PM   #59
RoadKillDMD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotopesope
whether the boost creep haunts you or not, it is still stated in cobb's map notes:
This is more of a disclaimer than a requirement. Cobbs maps also have adjustments if you are overboosting or not hitting target boost, different wastegate duty cycles are available to help. Since OP already got himself a catless DP, he will have to find out for himself if he gets boost creep. There is no point in arguing what has already been done.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:13 PM   #60
WRXRATED7
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So it sounds like I need to purchase and install a quality boost gauge before I install my catless DP and see if I have any issues with spiking or creep. What would I look for? What are normal boost ranges for Stage 1 and 2?
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:52 PM   #61
RoadKillDMD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRATED7
So it sounds like I need to purchase and install a quality boost gauge before I install my catless DP and see if I have any issues with spiking or creep. What would I look for? What are normal boost ranges for Stage 1 and 2?
You can monitor your boost with your AP. No need for a gauge just yet, but it wouldn't hurt

Target boost for the Cobb maps varies on what gas you use. I forget what boost I achieved at stage 1, but target boost for the stage 2 on 91 oct map I'm currently running is 18.5 psi. If you look at the map notes, it will give you a description and will tell you what kind of boost you should be seeing.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:20 PM   #62
isotopesope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
This is more of a disclaimer than a requirement. Cobbs maps also have adjustments if you are overboosting or not hitting target boost, different wastegate duty cycles are available to help. Since OP already got himself a catless DP, he will have to find out for himself if he gets boost creep. There is no point in arguing what has already been done.
sorry man, i was not trying to be argumentative or overly pedantic; i was just trying to illustrate a difference between a protune and ots map, and suggest he could run into problems. though you're right, perhaps a LWG map would fix any creepy issues.

i have had to run LWG versions for both of my stage 1 and stage 1+SF maps... so for me, a catted DP seems essential. i'd rather play it safe, than pay it safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
You can monitor your boost with your AP. No need for a gauge just yet, but it wouldn't hurt
that's what i am doing myself, along with that foxy proto tuning AP holder:
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Prot...er-Mount-Black

eventually i want a proper boost gauge and a a/f ratio gauge with a wide band o2 sensor.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #63
coalslaw
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bellmouth catless downpipe +1
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:00 AM   #64
drewvdw
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Alright, I'll offer up my opinions and experience on 09+ WRX's.

Stage 2:
Get a downpipe.

Now that you've got a typical "stage 2" car, you get to find out your car's limits, starting with the intercooler. The stock one can blow apart even at stock boost levels, not to mention the tiny size and amount of heat soak it will experience. Upgrading to a larger top mount is a good idea, but a front mount isn't a bad idea either.

Great, now you will likely have issues with boost creep. If the Cobb map can't correct it for you (which is fairly likely), you'll need to do 1 (or more) of 3 things:

Option 1: Port the internal wastegate
Option 2: Go with an EWG
Option 3: Get an EBCS

Easiest and cheapest option is getting the EBCS; this requires a custom tune. If the EBCS fails to correct the boost creep issue, it is still a very useful modification for either the ported internal wastegate or EWG. The next cheapest option may be to port the internal wastegate. This involves removing the turbo and also may not prevent boost creep completely. The foolproof method is to go with an aftermarket up-pipe with an external wastegate and either a manual boost controller or EBCS (or both for a hybrid setup). This may be the most expensive method, but it will prevent boost creep.
All 3 of these options require a professional tune.

Your next issue will likely be the crappy plastic bypass valve. Replacing it with another bypass valve would be best, but some may want a blow off valve. Cobb offers speed density tuning now, so if you want a BOV, tune via that method.

At this point, an intake is fairly benefitial. Unlike previous years, the 08+ WRX intake system is more restrictive.

When you're done with all of that, you'll find you're near the max of your stock injectors. Adding a fuel pump and set of injectors will increase your safe power limit. Maxing out injectors isn't the safest idea. While you're that deep in the engine, it would make sense to do a set of TGV deletes and a turbo inlet.

C/N:
Parts you may need:

Intercooler-top or front mount
EWG (or possibly ported IWG) with EBCS
BPV
Intake
Fuel pump and injectors
TGV deletes
Turbo inlet
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