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Old 10-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #1
nepbug
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Default Pulling out my EJ251, what should I do while it's out?

Ok, I'm doing the timing belt and head gaskets on my 2002 Outback Sport (EJ251 5MT). I've decided that it will be best if I just pull it out of the car to do the work. Here's my list of items I'm picking up to give it a once over, let me know if you think I have omitted anything.

       Gates TCK304 Timing Belt Component Kit Gates TCK304 Timing Belt Component Kit

Crank Seal: 806733030
Cam Seals: 806732150 x 2
Water Pump: M/T: 21111AA007
Pump Gasket: 21114AA051
Thermostat: 21200AA072
Thermo Gasket: 21236AA010
Oil Pump O-Ring: 10991AA001
Inlet Rad Hose - 45161FE000
Outlet Rad Hose - 45161AE010
Radiator Cap - 45137AE003
PCV - 11810AA040
Head Gaskets - 11044AA642 x 2 (going with the 04-07 STi ones instead of the OBS ones, a little smaller crush thickness so compression will be raised slightly)
Plug Tube Seals - 10966AA030 x 4
VC Gaskets - 13294AA053 x 2
VC Grommets - 13271AA071 x 10
Intake Manifold Gaskets - 14035AA383 x 2
Exhaust Manifold Gaskets - 44011AC030 x 2
Coolant Conditioner - SOA635071 (didn't use, it sits on the shelf for a rainy day)
Rear Main Seal - 806786040
Coolant for 2002 OBS - SOA868V9210
Cyl 4 Wrist Pin access o-ring - 806931070
Steel Oil Separator Plate - 11831AA210
Unsealed bolts for separator plate - 800406140 x 5
Sealed bolt for separator plate - 800406150 x 1
A/C Belt - 73323AC010
Alternator Belt - 809218250

I'm really considering the clutch/flywheel as well. I did the clutch 1.5 years ago, but not the flywheel and I still had clutch judder. Recently I did some unintentional bedding in of the clutch (slowly driving up ramps a couple of times) and the judder seems to have gone away so if that proves to be the case still over the next few weeks I will skip the clutch/flywheel.
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Last edited by nepbug; 10-04-2015 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Clarify typo in title
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:24 PM   #2
nepbug
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Lack of a response, but that's alright. I've added:

Cyl 4 Wrist Pin access o-ring - 806931070
Steel Oil Separator Plate - 11831AA210
Unsealed bolts for separator plate - 800406140 x 5
Sealed bolt for separator plate - 800406150 x 1
A/C Belt - 73323AC010
Alternator Belt - 809218250

I think this is a good list for somebody looking to do a refresh to their engine if they are pulling it out to do head gaskets/timing belt already.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention spark plugs as well.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:42 PM   #3
Patrick Olsen
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Why the cyl 4 wrist pin access o-ring? Not that it's an expensive item, but there's no need to remove that access plug to do the head gaskets and timing belt. It seems like you would be removing the plug solely to replace an o-ring that has never been disturbed and should be in perfect health.

And you may already have the steel separator plate. I've never really paid attention to what model years have those. I wouldn't bother replacing the separator plate unless you have the plastic one.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Why the cyl 4 wrist pin access o-ring? Not that it's an expensive item, but there's no need to remove that access plug to do the head gaskets and timing belt. It seems like you would be removing the plug solely to replace an o-ring that has never been disturbed and should be in perfect health.

And you may already have the steel separator plate. I've never really paid attention to what model years have those. I wouldn't bother replacing the separator plate unless you have the plastic one.
That's true, I'm hedging my bets on the wrist pin access port, it's more likely to be leaking than the rear main seal and the oil separator is even more likely to be leaking than either of the other two.

The wrist pin access port o-ring is really cheap, even if I didn't replace it, I'd rather be out $2 instead of waiting to get the part if it is needed.

I can't seem to find any definitive info on the period of plastic oil separator covers being used, I believe it was swapped back to the aluminum plate in 2000. Once again I'm just making sure I have the parts there, if I check it and it is not leaking and it still flat then I will have no need for the steel plate and I will figure out what I want to do with the new one, I'm not too worried about it, somebody will likely want to buy it and then I won't be out all of the money at least.

One more bit of info, I'm at 188k miles, so even if a seal isn't leaking now if I replace it I have a better chance of making it to 300k miles without issues.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #5
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If it ain't broke...

You don't need the coolant conditioner, cam seals, oil pump o-ring, or front crank seal. If they're not leaking, you're introducing more risk by removing/replacing. If you're tearing apart the engine for the hell of it, go nuts. It's actually kinda fun and you'll learn quite a bit. You still don't need the conditioner.

Don't forget to really clean off the top of the engine where the heads meet the block, dirt/pebbles have a way of migrating to those areas, and internals don't take too kindly to foreigners. Compressed air works pretty well. Do this BEFORE you disassemble anything. Don't forget to plug in your fans when you're all done.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #6
nepbug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrgh View Post
If it ain't broke...

You don't need the coolant conditioner, cam seals, oil pump o-ring, or front crank seal. If they're not leaking, you're introducing more risk by removing/replacing. If you're tearing apart the engine for the hell of it, go nuts. It's actually kinda fun and you'll learn quite a bit. You still don't need the conditioner.

Don't forget to really clean off the top of the engine where the heads meet the block, dirt/pebbles have a way of migrating to those areas, and internals don't take too kindly to foreigners. Compressed air works pretty well. Do this BEFORE you disassemble anything. Don't forget to plug in your fans when you're all done.
Thanks for the tips, I did notice a surprising amount of pebbles on the engine when I recently replaced the knock sensor. I will have to take the air gun out and clean it up a bit.

It's not all just for the hell of it. It started with I need to do my timing belt badly, this is the original belt. Then it came to what else can I do while I'm in there so that it is easier now than down the road. Head gaskets are a known issue on this engine so that didn't take too much convincing. After that, I decided I would rather do this with the engine out of the car, thus the list grew again to things I would have access too.

I am also getting the heads pressure tested and a valve job and resurfacing done if needed. I don't expect it as I don't have compression issues and haven't overheated though, but I don't want to be wondering. Head gasket sealing surface prep is key.

Also, in my opinion it's much more enjoyable to work on a car because you want to (preventative maintenance) than because you need to (something's broke).

When I did the clutch it was a "need to" situation, in February, and I did it on my back with a business trip coming up so I had a tight timeline (the wife needed it back before I was going to be gone for 2+ weeks). It also meant that I had to button it up quicker than I would have liked to, thus the flywheel didn't get replaced. That was the least enjoyable car work I've ever done. I'm actually looking forward to this work instead of dreading it.

It seems as though you've got some experience in unplugged fans...I'm sure it will stick in my head now.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #7
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Also, yarrgh, I see that you are in Colorado as well. Any recommendations on a front range shop for the heads? I am calling around this weekend and have Metro Perfomance and CCR Engines on the list of people to contact. I'll probably contact some of the other shops (Subapros, Super Rupair, Roos Only, etc) and see if they do these in-house or send it out.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:55 AM   #8
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bump; looked into this page as an index to the rebuilding of my own 2002 OBS
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasguzman View Post
bump; looked into this page as an index to the rebuilding of my own 2002 OBS
Where in Washington are you located?
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:09 AM   #10
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Where in Washington are you located?
Eastern Washington; Walla Walla/College Place area
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:13 PM   #11
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I disagree with not doing the cam and crank seals, especially with the motor out, itll be easier, Just make sure you dont nik the surface that the inner lips ride on.

If youre gonna pull the oil pump to replace that oring, you may want to dab some loctite on the screws holding the backing plate on. Although i think those arent as prone to having the screws back out, its another 'while youre there' type of deal.

Also, check the round plugs at the backs of the heads, those will leak too.

Also your pilot bearing, if you didnt check it/replace it when you did the clutch.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:34 AM   #12
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I recently pulled my 2005 Outback sport engine and did a lot of what you are planning. I started with pulling the heads off in the engine bay which turned into why not pull the whole thing because I figured I was that far down and if I didn't go all the way I'd regret it. It was fun, I did correct the HG issue but ended up causing a rear main leak some how. Yep I did change the RM at that time. Engine runs excellent except for the burnt rubber oil smell, caused by the RM leaking and the flinging oil onto the exhaust. Soooo, the engine is out again and I'll replace the seal again. Still kind of fun...
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Old 06-28-2015, 08:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ampb5rider View Post
I recently pulled my 2005 Outback sport engine and did a lot of what you are planning. I started with pulling the heads off in the engine bay which turned into why not pull the whole thing because I figured I was that far down and if I didn't go all the way I'd regret it. It was fun, I did correct the HG issue but ended up causing a rear main leak some how. Yep I did change the RM at that time. Engine runs excellent except for the burnt rubber oil smell, caused by the RM leaking and the flinging oil onto the exhaust. Soooo, the engine is out again and I'll replace the seal again. Still kind of fun...
You might have set the RMS too deep. Don't seat it all the way in, just go until it's sitting flush.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:07 PM   #14
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i am also pulling out my engine to do the oil pan and valve cover gasket, and head gaskets. i couldn't find the right valve cover gasket at autozone or CAP. where are u getting ur parts
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:21 PM   #15
nepbug
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I called Jackie at Annapolis Subaru because she gives a good discount. But Subaru parts warehouse often had sales/discount codes too.

So, just look for a discounted online retailer of OEM parts.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:24 AM   #16
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Sweet boutta rebuild mine! Stickied for mee
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:13 AM   #17
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Hey OP why the Sti gasket and not the ej25 head gasket? What's the difference. And what year Sti?
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:56 PM   #18
nepbug
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Originally Posted by Andrewxxcarlson View Post
Hey OP why the Sti gasket and not the ej25 head gasket? What's the difference. And what year Sti?
The STi head gasket is a MLS (multi-layer steel) gasket instead of the single-layer head gasket that the ej251 gets. The MLS design is much more dependable for maintaining a good seal.

The crushed thickness of the STi gasket is about 0.6 - 0.7 mm while the ej251 gasket is about 1.0 mm, so it will raise compression slightly.

This part number is for the 04-07 STi. Though I think it might be the same as the 08+ STi as well.
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:52 PM   #19
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I bought the felpro head gasket kit. Mls headgaskets. Gonna take them to Subaru and compare em to the Sti ones. Any objections?

Question, is there supposed to be side to side play in the rod bearings?
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Andrewxxcarlson View Post
I bought the felpro head gasket kit. Mls headgaskets. Gonna take them to Subaru and compare em to the Sti ones. Any objections?

Question, is there supposed to be side to side play in the rod bearings?
Felpro Permatorques? If so those are pretty good, I know a couple of guys that used them without issues.

What do up mean by side to side? In the same direction as the stroke?
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:29 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by nepbug View Post
Felpro Permatorques? If so those are pretty good, I know a couple of guys that used them without issues.

What do up mean by side to side? In the same direction as the stroke?
Yes the permatorques. Good to hear

Side to side as if in opposite of stroke. I didn't really feel any play in direction of stroke which wasn't what I was expecting...
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:11 AM   #22
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By the way, these permatorque mls headgaskets are beautiful. Will be comparing to the Sti gasket regardless but I wanna hang this beautiful bitch on my wall lol
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewxxcarlson View Post
Yes the permatorques. Good to hear

Side to side as if in opposite of stroke. I didn't really feel any play in direction of stroke which wasn't what I was expecting...
Well, there is play in both directions, it's just that the side-to-side play is an order of magnitude greater than the in-out play. Here's what the FSM says:

Side-to-side play:



In-Out play/oil clearance (use a Plastigauge to measure):



I assume you have the oil pan off and are checking the play that way, right?
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Old 10-04-2015, 12:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nepbug View Post
Well, there is play in both directions, it's just that the side-to-side play is an order of magnitude greater than the in-out play. Here's what the FSM says:

Side-to-side play:



In-Out play/oil clearance (use a Plastigauge to measure):



I assume you have the oil pan off and are checking the play that way, right?
Mmm try I have the whole motor torn apart now including case halves. Did ya see my pic #5 main bearing? Yeah I'll get a feeler gauge in there when it all goes back together!
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:49 PM   #25
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Apologies, I posted my pic in my own forum.

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