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Old 10-15-2012, 06:47 PM   #1
pktzygt
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Default ej20g not running with standalone

I've got a ej20g (coil pack on top style) in a porsche 914 and wired to a Stinger EMS.

It won't run. The closest I can get is holding the throttle open I can get it fire a but but not run on its own. I know I have fuel, spark and I believe my cam and crank signals are correct because it is reading a steady RPM on the ECU. Unless I am really messed up, the timing is set correctly.

This is a very simple ecu. It needs cam and crank signals to send the signal to the coil, fuel and air and not much else. I am missing something though.

Any ideas?

I'm going to do a compression and leakdown test tomorrow.

Here is the wiring diagram. I told you it is simple!
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:07 AM   #2
elislider
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its possible your throttle sensor and/or MAF are not correctly wired or calibrated.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:55 AM   #3
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The engine you have got should be an EJ20K since the coil pack is on the top. A picture of the intake manifold would help to identify it. Your diagram shows connections to 4 coil packs. however the EJ20K coil pack has one ground and 2 ignition inputs (it used wasted spark ignition). The wires for coils 1 and 2 should be connected together and those for 3 and 4 should also be connected together when using this coil.

How have you set firing order?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:01 AM   #4
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elislider View Post
its possible your throttle sensor and/or MAF are not correctly wired or calibrated.
I've thought about the throttle sensor. I may well have those wires mixed up. I will look into that and get back to you.

It doesn't even use a MAF with this ecu though.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #5
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmugabi View Post
The engine you have got should be an EJ20K since the coil pack is on the top. A picture of the intake manifold would help to identify it. Your diagram shows connections to 4 coil packs. however the EJ20K coil pack has one ground and 2 ignition inputs (it used wasted spark ignition). The wires for coils 1 and 2 should be connected together and those for 3 and 4 should also be connected together when using this coil.

How have you set firing order?
I have a 2 channel ignitor running off the IGN1 and IGN2 outputs running the wasted spark coil. The other two outputs from the ecu are not used in my application. What I'm not sure of is if I got the coil backward. I have it wired with the wires coming out of the coil at the bottom of the coil with the "diamond" sticker visible at the top. I suppose I could have flipped it over and wired it backwards.

The firing order is 1-3-4-2 (correction)
Cyl#1 (Passenger side front)
Cyl#2 (Driver side front)
Cyl#3 (Passenger side rear)
Cyl#4 (Driver side rear)

There was however a limited run for the ej20g with the coil on top configuration. I think it was '96-'97. It has been covered on here before (i think matt monson was the one with the info). Lack of the exact wiring diagram is one reason why I'm having trouble figuring this out.

Thanks for your help.

Last edited by pktzygt; 10-16-2012 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:41 AM   #6
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firing order is wrong. should be 1-3-4-2.

-=Suberdave=-
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suberdave View Post
firing order is wrong. should be 1-3-4-2.

-=Suberdave=-
Thanks, Not that I can remember which way I have it hooked up. I'm pretty sure I have it hooked up correctly, but it has been a while since I looked at it.

That means that with wasted spark, Cyl #1 and Cyl #2 at the same time and #3 & #4 fire at the same time?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:15 PM   #8
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I did pull the motor out this morning though to check timing.

It looks OK. All the timing marks on the cams line up perfectly when the double line marks are lined up with each other. The crank mark is lined up with the arrow facing right.

I need to do the compression test, but I fear the results! I bought this engine and a trans. Then sold the trans for more than I paid for the pair. I'm expecting that there is a reason I was able to pull that off. I'm also not exactly upset over it either.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #9
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Check the crank gear and make sure NONE of the teeth are missing.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:12 AM   #10
pktzygt
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Nope, all the teeth are where they are supposed to be.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:27 PM   #11
rob
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How do you have the cam/crank sensors hooked up? The diagram doesn't make sense for subaru stock sensors.

When you crank it, what RPM do you see in your logs or live software? If it is zero, then this is a clue that the ECU isn't getting the trigger info properly.

-Rob
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:23 PM   #12
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
How do you have the cam/crank sensors hooked up? The diagram doesn't make sense for subaru stock sensors.

When you crank it, what RPM do you see in your logs or live software? If it is zero, then this is a clue that the ECU isn't getting the trigger info properly.

-Rob
I get a steady 228rpm. it took me a bit to figure out that diagram too. The sensors are grounded and the the sensors induce the current onto the trigger and signal inputs. It is set up for the correct tooth pattern in the crank wheel also and does provide spark through the coil.

I may have the coil wired backwards though or the throttle body sensor.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:31 PM   #13
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I didn't get the compression test done due to work schedule. I did have an idea though. When it tries to fire over, light white smoke comes out of the exhaust. It does not smell like coolant at all and smells like fuel. Do you think that it may just be flooded?
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:59 PM   #14
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Ok you need to make sure the coil is firing correctly first. Make sure you know which is ign#1 and ign#2 going into the coil. Take a multimeter and set it for resistance. On the front most coil to one of the wires in the connector. Now both coil will have a resistance on the center wire obviously but you should only have it on one of the wires. The is how you will know which is which.

Next pull the plug out of cylinder #1 and turn crank til it is TDC. Look on the crank pulley for a indent that matches the timing belt cover at 0 degrees. If there isnt one get a piece of chalk and make a mark. Get your timing light out and on cylinder #1 and make sure that mark matches what timing you have in you table. If you dont see the mark you are 180 out or if the mark is way off what it should be you need to change setting. You have to set static to lock at 10BTDC and adjust trim if out.


Will it stay running at all with your foot to the floor. If it does you have WAY too much fuel on either crank enrichment settings or in your fuel map.

Check your TPS and make sure it is going the right way.

What timing amounts are you using to try and start. I had no problem with 8-12 and will start at up to 14 degrees.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:29 PM   #15
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kay95 View Post
Ok you need to make sure the coil is firing correctly first. Make sure you know which is ign#1 and ign#2 going into the coil. Take a multimeter and set it for resistance. On the front most coil to one of the wires in the connector. Now both coil will have a resistance on the center wire obviously but you should only have it on one of the wires. The is how you will know which is which.

Next pull the plug out of cylinder #1 and turn crank til it is TDC. Look on the crank pulley for a indent that matches the timing belt cover at 0 degrees. If there isnt one get a piece of chalk and make a mark. Get your timing light out and on cylinder #1 and make sure that mark matches what timing you have in you table. If you dont see the mark you are 180 out or if the mark is way off what it should be you need to change setting. You have to set static to lock at 10BTDC and adjust trim if out.


Will it stay running at all with your foot to the floor. If it does you have WAY too much fuel on either crank enrichment settings or in your fuel map.

Check your TPS and make sure it is going the right way.

What timing amounts are you using to try and start. I had no problem with 8-12 and will start at up to 14 degrees.
I had to read that twice to figure out what you were telling me. It turns out it was so incredibly simple that i wasn't expecting it. Thanks. I will pull out the timing light any get back to you.

It will not stay running with foot on the floor. It will put put put while cranking though.it sounds like it wants to go but just wont.

Thanks again!
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #16
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Ohh, what voltage is the throttle sensor supposed to show when open vs. Closed?

If I remember correctly it was 0.5v closed.

Last edited by pktzygt; 10-21-2012 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pktzygt View Post
Ohh, what voltage is the throttle sensor supposed to show when open vs. Closed?

If I remember correctly it was 0.5v closed.

That would be correct.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:30 AM   #18
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