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Old 10-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #51
M45
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Well both times my engine was over-filled, they drained some out, and tightened the plug back, thereby re-using the crush washers.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:17 AM   #52
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The filter on the 2012 Impreza is Subaru 15208AA160

I got this from subaruforester.org

Subaru specs (from 2012 service manual)
By-pass valve opening pressure kPa (kgf/cm2, psi) 160 (1.6, 23.2)
Outer diameter width mm (in) 68 85 (2.68 3.35)
Installation screw specifications M 20 1.5


Now for the dirt on the bypass valve pressure:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://saturdaymechanic.com/subaru-oil-filter-bypass-valve/
Back to basics:The oil pump moves oil from the sump into the engine, pressurizing it to do so. The pump has a tremendous excess capacity, especially at high revs. There’s a spring-and-piston bypass valve in the oil gallery that dumps excess volume back into the sump to maintain the proper pressure. The actual oil gallery pressure is a function of this bypass spring’s tension and the viscosity of the oil. If the pump delivers sufficient quantity, the pressure will be high enough to keep the bearings lubed.

Now, inside the filter is another bypass valve, usually in the form of a spring and a rubber flap. Normally, the spring keeps the flap shut, forcing all of the oil to pass through through the paper filter medium. When the paper filter medium starts to plug up with dirt or sludge, there will be a pressure differential across it and the bypass valve. When the oil can’t percolate through the filter fast enough, it will flow directly, unfiltered, through the canister. Well, unfiltered oil is better than not enough oil. The bypass valve rarely opens, except maybe during conditions of high engine revs and cold oil temperatures. In this case, if it doesn’t open the filter can may fail, usually by blowing the crimp. (Messy!)

Subaru is concerned enough about its filter medium plugging up that they’ve set the bypass valve at 24 psi. Most oil filters are, as you say, more like half that. I dare say that if the pressure differential across the filter medium is somewhere between 12 and 24 psi, the Subaru pump has enough capacity to provide adequate oil pressure. When the bypass is, um, bypassing, the max pressure supplied to the gallery will be lower by exactly the bypass valve’s rating. In the case of the Subaru filter, by a whopping 24 psi. But–if the oil pump has enough capacity, that doesn’t matter because the engine block’s bypass plunger will still be regulating the pressure to what it’s supposed to be. Some other cars, notably older British product and air-cooled VWs, may not, so they would be better off with a lower bypass rating.

Now–what should you do? Just because of the fact that you know and care what the filter bypass rating is, I’ll guess that that your Subaru will never have oil that’s dirty or sludged up enough to activate the bypass. Ditto for running a stone-cold engine at redline. By all means, save a couple of bucks and use your favorite aftermarket filter. My personal favorite–and I’ve dismantled a bunch and taken the plant tour at a half-dozen filter manufacturing facilities–is the NAPA or NASCAR brand made by Wix. Some other national brands, not so good.
Other filters may be cheaper, and are probably fine if you change your oil regularly. I've also seen talk that Subaru's filter medium is pretty poor compared to other brands. Their medium may require the higher pressures to pass oil through it, but who knows. $7 per Subaru filter isn't that expensive, though buying another brand may be more convenient.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:18 AM   #53
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Pkl- I'm using the same stuff in 5w30.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:48 AM   #54
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I didnt use crush washers on oil changes in the past and never saw any ill effects. i did on my past few oil changes before i got the subaru and didnt notice any difference. I tightened the hell out of the bolt though. I also used cheap oil filters on occasions and never saw a difference.

I dont ever remember seeing super lube change out a crush washer either.

This isnt the route im going with this car because its new but when i hit 150k -200k ill experiment with a few cheaper options.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:54 AM   #55
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Good info foghelmut...

To correct my previous post, the PL14460 does not have an anti-drainback valve, but the bypass pressure is 20-25 PSI.

The PL14459 does have the valve, but bypass pressure is 12-15 PSI.

The PL14612 and PL14610 both have the valve and bypass at 14-18 PSI.

The PL14460 and PL14459 are tied for largest, then PL14610, and PL14612 is smallest.

The best choices from this line are probably PL14459 and PL14610.

If Subaru used a decently sized filter, it probably wouldn't need such a high bypass pressure.

Last edited by Commander Keen; 10-23-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:31 AM   #56
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Basically you don't want a filter that gets to the point that the bypass valve opens. If it has to open the bypass valve, the filter media is contaminated, and the filter should have already been replaced, so that the oil filter does not return oil to the engine unfiltered.

If you change the filter often enough, the bypass valve probably will never open. I would agree that you should only use a filter with an anti-drainback valve (especially because the filter is inverted), and should change it often enough so the bypass valve isn't ever opened.

If Subaru was concerned about their small filter size for this engine and the filter media not being adequate for the 7,500 mile interval oil changes, they would have chosen a filter that was larger or had a lesser bypass valve pressure, so that the engine keeps getting filtered oil or defaults quicker to bypass the plugged filter media, making sure the engine does not starve for oil.

Obviously they are not concerned about this with the new engine.

Subaru makes neither their brand of oil nor their oil filters. They spec it and have someone else supply it. Anyone know which manufacturer makes the Subaru filter and what other brands they make? That would tell you more about the quality of the filter.

Last edited by Zeeper; 10-23-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:10 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auskip07 View Post
I didnt use crush washers on oil changes in the past and never saw any ill effects. i did on my past few oil changes before i got the subaru and didnt notice any difference. I tightened the hell out of the bolt though. I also used cheap oil filters on occasions and never saw a difference.

I dont ever remember seeing super lube change out a crush washer either.

This isnt the route im going with this car because its new but when i hit 150k -200k ill experiment with a few cheaper options.
Most of the quick lube places have "pits" where they drain the oil, how would you see if they replaced the washer unless you were crouched down with your head under the car?

I don't understand some people's reluctance to replace this cheap, one use only washer. It helps keep oil in your engine.

You could play chicken with freight trains 50 times and not get run over and on the 51st time, trip and fall and get dragged a half a mile under the train.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:15 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
Most of the quick lube places have "pits" where they drain the oil, how would you see if they replaced the washer unless you were crouched down with your head under the car?

I don't understand some people's reluctance to replace this cheap, one use only washer. It helps keep oil in your engine.

You could play chicken with freight trains 50 times and not get run over and on the 51st time, trip and fall and get dragged a half a mile under the train.
I agree - a crush washer is a one time use item and a pretty small price to pay for the insurance it provides.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:57 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Pkl- I'm using the same stuff in 5w30.
And how is that working out for you? One thing is for sure, 5w30 is a lot more common and easier to find in stores compared to 0w20.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:35 AM   #60
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So far so good.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:31 AM   #61
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I think in most vehicles the oil weight isn't of huge concern. I don't have much experience with boxer engines or engines with the inverted oil filter (never even seen this before now!). Are there any thoughts on if these aspects come into play?
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #62
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I don't think the switch to 0w20 has anything to do with the boxer design at all. Or the filter.
Honda owners are also having issues running 0w20. After lots of internet browsing, it seems lots of people don't have good experiences with the thin stuff. That's why I decided to try a thicker oil.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
I don't think the switch to 0w20 has anything to do with the boxer design at all. Or the filter.
Honda owners are also having issues running 0w20. After lots of internet browsing, it seems lots of people don't have good experiences with the thin stuff. That's why I decided to try a thicker oil.
what kind of problems are the honda drivers having?
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #64
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People complaining of oil consumption, I think. I'm just recalling a bit of forum activity I read through. Let me see if I can find a link or two
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:42 AM   #65
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Here's one... But I'm not trying to turn THIS into an oil consumption thread.
http://www.crosstourownersclub.com/f...php/t-323.html
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #66
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for 2008 - 2010 accords there is a nice oil defect lawsuit, also for the v6 models some of the engines were not assembled correctly, thank the robots for that. Aluminium engines burn oil and 0w20 oil can get burnt up pretty quickly esepcially if you
A: follow manufacturer oil change intervals
B: broke it in incorrectly
C: foo
Once honda said to use 0w20 the complaints shot up a bit.
Also honda v6 burns through oil quicker so a v6 accord should not change at the same interval as the 4cyl. Chaulk that one up to consumer stupidity. Total cost of ownership my butt. 2011 and up accords a TSB was issued. The 0w20 oil burns quicker than the
5w20 in the accord engines however if you go back and check out the 7th gen accord they also burnt oil as did the 6th gen, lets not even talk about the auto transmissions.

I have an 09 accord (soon to be gone for the dgm impreza), I stick with a 5k change and 5w20 over the 0w20, on the 10 civic before she got totaled change was every 4.5k with 5w20. For the impreza I am gonna see how it likes the kendall 0w20 since I can get that pretty cheap and its very close in quality to the amsoil oe. I currently stick to the 3750/4k oil change, I expect some oil loss until 10k when it should stabilize a bit.

Another spot to get oil:
http://www.petroleumservicecompany.c...-ti-0w-20.html
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:32 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
B: broke it in incorrectly
I've seen a lot of variation on how to break a car in correctly. I generally don't get on it too often but I don't completely baby it either. It seems like engine break in isn't the same as it used to be.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:18 PM   #68
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yeah, i blame the internet for the break in confusion, just drive the car normally and try to vary the rpms aka diff speeds which you do normally anyways. avoid one constant rate of speed and you should be fine and of course no cruise control. Also engine can take up to 10k to fully break in for all the ppl ****ting a brick over oil usage, so some oil usage will occur until it stabilizes.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:11 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
yeah, i blame the internet for the break in confusion, just drive the car normally and try to vary the rpms aka diff speeds which you do normally anyways. avoid one constant rate of speed and you should be fine and of course no cruise control. Also engine can take up to 10k to fully break in for all the ppl ****ting a brick over oil usage, so some oil usage will occur until it stabilizes.
You are very misinformed when it comes to oil usage. And 10,000 miles for subaru engine break in is also crap. Let me guess your a subaru engine designer and engineer working for FUJI international. Or maybe you personally designed this engine.


We'll I did not think so. So your comments are null and void.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:42 AM   #70
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My opinion on 10k is just that, the manual that comes with the car says it can take up to 7k, based off my experience with other new cars aka the accord or civic it will take a while for both oil consumption to stabilize and for the engine to fully break in. My current subaru is on target and I have been monitoring its usage.

link to manual:
http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/695...213Ball_20.pdf

Impreza Manual Maintenance and service 11-7
Quote:
NOTE
. The engine oil consumption rate is
not stabilized, and therefore cannot be
determined until the vehicle has tra
veled at least several thousand miles
(kilometers). Even after break-in, when
the vehicle is used under severe driv
ing conditions such as those men
tioned in the Warranty and Mainte
nance Booklet, engine oil is consumed
or deteriorated more quickly than un
der normal driving conditions. If you
drive your vehicle under these severe
conditions, you should check the oi
level at least at every second fuel fill-up
time, and change the oil more fre
quently. Please refer to the Warranty
and Maintenance Booklet for more de
tails.
. If the oil consumption rate seems
abnormally high after the break-in
period, for example more than 1 quar
per 1,200 miles or 1 liter per 2,000
kilometers, contact your SUBARU deal
er.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:43 AM   #71
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10k break-in?? Really? Then shouldn't it be criminal to lease them to folks?
If it has synthetic in it, it should already be broken in. 10k with 0w20 isn't a very smart break-in procedure for a manufacturer. Low-vioscosity oils and low tension rings are just ways of wringing out a bit of efficiency at the cost of engine life. Just about any car will consume some oil if you run 0w20. But all the break-in hoopla is just bs. Subaru says its broken in at "several thousand" miles. I'd say the entire drivetrain takes a few thousand to be fully broken-in. But it seems to me that most people by the 10k logic would have to spend upwards of a year to break in a car.
If the rings etc aren't broken in after a thousand miles or so, they never will be.

Last edited by 79letour; 10-25-2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:55 AM   #72
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Perhaps the use of the word break in is a poor choice, however in the same respect that you will not see a stable mpg reading for some time, it takes a period of time for any machine to eventual reach its optimal level. Obviously the time it takes to get there will vary as will the mileage as that is determined by numerous factors. My expressed opinion of 10k is not a rule that is set in stone, it is simply the number I utilize personally for my own piece of mind. Can your vehicle stabilize oil consumption and mpg before 10k yes, my arbitrary number is simply that. Does subaru via its manual state that it might take until 7k for oil consumption to stabilize yes. There are siimply many variables that can influence the time before you car is at an optimal status.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:01 AM   #73
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Wow! Intelligent exchange of ideas on Nasioc??? Nooooo!!!!
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:10 AM   #74
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While I do agree on many points, I didn't have any variance in mpgs ever. Been averaging 31.5 since it was new. My oil consumption slowly was/is getting worse with mileage. Didn't burn any noticeable amount till several thousand miles.

On another note, and sort of back on topic, I heartily recommend trying Amsoil 75w90 gear oil in the transaxle and rear diff of MT cars. Smoother shifts and more efficiency. Also its good to get all the suspended metal particles from break-in out of there.
Its easy to do, and you'll only have to do it once.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:12 AM   #75
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I gotta say, for an oil thread, this is staying pretty civil!
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