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Old 10-30-2012, 03:20 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
How much more are you going to spend repairing a new Ford hybrid model, and what's the anticipated resale difference? C-Max is interesting, but personally, I'd be cautious for a few years.
This.

And I certainly wouldn't anticipate gas prices to go down.. or stay the same.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:47 PM   #52
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Hopefully Subaru accepts that it is growing and gives itself more room. Tool up a new plant or two. I do want my next car to be a Subaru, but I'm getting a bad feeling that it will be a struggle to get the car I want anywhere near when I want it. And dealer mark-ups would turn me off like a light.

Like some people are arguing here, that whole experience could inject poison into the brand if Subaru doesn't act. Meanwhile, they could just be selling more cars. Hopefully they capitalize on their success and we can reap the rewards through the next gen products.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:29 PM   #53
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A car company lives on its reputation. Not having cars readily available, even Subarus, is has bad for their reputation. Especially if the dealers take advantage of the customers.

I agree. Our CSI surveys have suffered for the sheer fact of our inventory. Completely unfair for Subaru to hold something against us that THEY are having trouble with. We cannot control what cars and how many of them they send to us; so, to have that on the survey is purely unfair. Did I mention that it was unfair? Unfair, I tell you!!!

Now, with that said, I think that as it hurts in some areas, I think it helps in others. Not a lot, of course. Folks are seeing that Subaru's are hard to get because of their popularity. Makes them want it more!!!
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:58 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by KC
Find me an XV Premium Desert Kahki with CVT, Nav and Winter package (heated seats).

There isn't one in New England per Subaru of New England.

--kC
Autotrader has a limited with Nav in Cali.

Easy way to check SNE inventory is www.sne1.com
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #55
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The backlog actually works out fairly well for me. I wasn't going to put in an order for an STi until January when I paid off my current WRX. However, with the 4 month wait time, I placed an order last Saturday and was told it would be here in February which plays out perfectly for me. Really glad I didn't wait till January, which with the way things have been going if you order then you might not see your car until the fall!
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:12 PM   #56
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Autotrader has a limited with Nav in Cali.

Easy way to check SNE inventory is www.sne1.com
Read my 2nd line.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:58 PM   #57
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How much more are you going to spend repairing a new Ford hybrid model, and what's the anticipated resale difference? C-Max is interesting, but personally, I'd be cautious for a few years.
You won't spend a penny repairing a C-MAX. That is what the warranty is for.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:22 PM   #58
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lol I know my sense of distance is "warped". I'm just saying that it's humanly and financially (within relativity) possible for one to travel a distance to get the car they want.
Glad you saw the intended humor. There are those who will do it, simply because it is a Subaru. One of my many future purchase plans is, if the VIP program still exists and good with the WRX, is to use it to buy my next car somewhere in Southern California. Fly out there and use Route 66 as my break in drive. Then again, I might just go 2 miles up the road and buy it there.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:20 PM   #59
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Glad you saw the intended humor. There are those who will do it, simply because it is a Subaru. One of my many future purchase plans is, if the VIP program still exists and good with the WRX, is to use it to buy my next car somewhere in Southern California. Fly out there and use Route 66 as my break in drive. Then again, I might just go 2 miles up the road and buy it there.
NEVAR! Road trip! ALWAYS vote for road trip!

I came this ==><== close to getting my BRZ from Southern California and just driving it up this Fall. Family is in Northern California. It would've been fun, but ultimately I decided that I didn't want to see some OTHER douchebag in a black BRZ Limited driving around Alaska. I'm willing to pay a little more for the exclusivity for at least a year.

To get back on track, I am sorry for people not being able to get the cars they want when they want them. I'm not that cold. I just think that those same people have to be willing to make some sacrifices. Even if the cars weren't backordered, like if they had plenty on the lot, how many people de-content their cars to get EXACTLY what they want?

Sales Guy: "This one comes with NAV!"
Customer: "We don't want NAV."
Sales Guy: "Well, it's the only one in the color you want. We can order that color WITHOUT NAV for you if you want?"
Customer: "Order? Nah. We'll just take the car with NAV now. I don't NEED NAV, but it won't hurt anything to have it."
Sales Guy:

Crude scenario, but I'm sure you get my point. Having delayed pre-orders and not having enough cars in stock overall are two different things. I can see being picky about only finding Limited trims when you just want Premium. Or only CVTs when you just want a manual. However, passing up on a vehicle because it comes with some extras that raise the price, where otherwise the car IS what you want, then complaining that Subaru doesn't have what you want available to you, that just seems silly to me. Silly enough to where I think I might be misunderstanding a perspective or two and wouldn't mind some clarification about the subject at hand.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:38 PM   #60
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Chano says "I can see being picky about only finding Limited trims when you just want Premium. Or only CVTs when you just want a manual. However, passing up on a vehicle because it comes with some extras that raise the price, where otherwise the car IS what you want, then complaining that Subaru doesn't have what you want available to you, that just seems silly to me. Silly enough to where I think I might be misunderstanding a perspective or two and wouldn't mind some clarification about the subject at hand."

My current Legacy has some "extra bits" that I got because I bought the car on the lot rather than ordering. As you say above, it worked out fine, in part because it was only a few hundred dollars difference.

This was NOT her scenario. As I said earlier, she wants a Legacy, in red, with Navi, Moonroof. She also wants remote start (didn't mention that before). Dealer had red, but not with Navi. They can't just "put that in"--it has to come from the factory. They located one Legacy at a distant dealer (they did not tell us which one, but I went through the inventory online of every dealer in a 500 mail radius), limited, red, with moonroof and Navi, but it had be trailer-ed in, came with a spoiler (something she does not like) and would have to have the remote start and 110v outlet added in--all adding a little over ~$900 to the price of the car.

Her current car is ok, and will be fine for another couple of months. She decided to wait, get exactly what she wanted, get a few more months without a car payment AND save $900. All in all...the right deal for her. If it does not show up for SIX months, I may be less happy about the deal.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #61
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You won't spend a penny repairing a C-MAX. That is what the warranty is for.
KC was calculating amounts over a 5-year period. C-Max has a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:16 AM   #62
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Did I miss something...is the shortage on all Subarus or just the ones made in Japan? BTW...Made in Japan by Deep Purple is a great old guy driving album.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:51 AM   #63
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KC was calculating amounts over a 5-year period. C-Max has a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty.
The CMax has the same warranty as Subaru vehicles, including the 5y/60 Powertrain and 10y/150k mile CA Emissions Warranty for PZEV.

At that, the batteries are 8y/100k miles according to Ford. Since I do about 15-20k/year, that's about 5-6 years before I would have to think about batteries. And that's anticipated to be about $1k-$2k replacement. That is if I actually have the capability to keep a car for 5 years!!!

So it's a valid concern, but one that wouldn't really concern me for how long I actually keep cars.

--kC
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:51 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy View Post
Chano says "I can see being picky about only finding Limited trims when you just want Premium. Or only CVTs when you just want a manual. However, passing up on a vehicle because it comes with some extras that raise the price, where otherwise the car IS what you want, then complaining that Subaru doesn't have what you want available to you, that just seems silly to me. Silly enough to where I think I might be misunderstanding a perspective or two and wouldn't mind some clarification about the subject at hand."

My current Legacy has some "extra bits" that I got because I bought the car on the lot rather than ordering. As you say above, it worked out fine, in part because it was only a few hundred dollars difference.

This was NOT her scenario. As I said earlier, she wants a Legacy, in red, with Navi, Moonroof. She also wants remote start (didn't mention that before). Dealer had red, but not with Navi. They can't just "put that in"--it has to come from the factory. They located one Legacy at a distant dealer (they did not tell us which one, but I went through the inventory online of every dealer in a 500 mail radius), limited, red, with moonroof and Navi, but it had be trailer-ed in, came with a spoiler (something she does not like) and would have to have the remote start and 110v outlet added in--all adding a little over ~$900 to the price of the car.

Her current car is ok, and will be fine for another couple of months. She decided to wait, get exactly what she wanted, get a few more months without a car payment AND save $900. All in all...the right deal for her. If it does not show up for SIX months, I may be less happy about the deal.
This seems to be the exact scenario I was talking about. I know you have to get Navi added from the factory. The only reason I didn't order my 2011 WRX Limited with one was because for 2011MY they were $2k. After that they dropped to $1k. Anyways, it seems like you're missing out on a fantastic car mostly because of not wanting a spoiler? Less than $1k for all of that is a NICE deal, in my opinion.

I'm honestly not trying to argue. I'm really not. It just seems like you've found the car you want, but there's a small, cosmetic piece that's preventing the sale from happening and "forcing" you to wait months. I wouldn't wait that long just to NOT have a rear spoiler (which I think makes the car look classy anyways).

Moonroof and Navi I totally understand, though. I opted out of the STI back in 2010 because the STI Limited was way overpriced for my just wanting a moonroof. So trust that I understand wanting specific things, but I'm also perplexed by skipping out of a car that has almost everything that's important, PLUS just a rear spoiler.

I'm obviously not married since I don't think the spoiler is a big deal. But if you guys are willing to wait, that's a whole other story.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:03 PM   #65
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Glad you saw the intended humor. There are those who will do it, simply because it is a Subaru. One of my many future purchase plans is, if the VIP program still exists and good with the WRX, is to use it to buy my next car somewhere in Southern California. Fly out there and use Route 66 as my break in drive. Then again, I might just go 2 miles up the road and buy it there.

That would be ideal. We have VIP as well, but all the fun cars are off; BRZ, WRX, WRX STI and even the XV. Hopefully they will include those again when/if inventory stabilizes again. But I won't hold my breath.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:41 PM   #66
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I hope it comes back also...
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:20 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
The CMax has the same warranty as Subaru vehicles, including the 5y/60 Powertrain and 10y/150k mile CA Emissions Warranty for PZEV.

At that, the batteries are 8y/100k miles according to Ford. Since I do about 15-20k/year, that's about 5-6 years before I would have to think about batteries. And that's anticipated to be about $1k-$2k replacement. That is if I actually have the capability to keep a car for 5 years!!!

So it's a valid concern, but one that wouldn't really concern me for how long I actually keep cars.

--kC
I appreciate that C-Max and Subaru have similar warranties, which was kinda the point... which one is more likely to have a repair cost outside of the warranty, a first-year Ford or a Subaru? Sounds like it's irrelevant to answer that, based on your reply, but since you don't actually keep cars that long, then why calculate the cost savings over 5 years?
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:24 PM   #68
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I'm honestly not trying to argue. I'm really not. It just seems like you've found the car you want, but there's a small, cosmetic piece that's preventing the sale from happening and "forcing" you to wait months. I wouldn't wait that long just to NOT have a rear spoiler (which I think makes the car look classy anyways).

So trust that I understand wanting specific things, but I'm also perplexed by skipping out of a car that has almost everything that's important, PLUS just a rear spoiler.

I'm obviously not married since I don't think the spoiler is a big deal. But if you guys are willing to wait, that's a whole other story.
It's all good, Chano. Different people, different trigger points. Incidentally, the spoiler only added about $350 to the price. The rest of the $900 was shipping the car and installing the other bits it did not have.

And once you get married, you will understand the importance of reading your wife's frustration levels and determining the right action to take. In this case, ordering was the better option. If I'd suggested to her "yeah, let's spend ANOTHER two hours here today doing paperwork so you can spend MORE on a car that you'll have to wait a few weeks for anyway..."

That would have been bad. For me.

She's happy to save the money for a few months and pay less overall. Who knows, we might sell her current car in the meantime for more than the trade-in value (though we were happy with what they offered). Then she could drive my legacy wagon and I'd get to spend more time with the Spyder. Win win!

Tell me if you see one in Alaska, though. That would be a roadtrip worth making!
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:29 PM   #69
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That would be ideal. We have VIP as well, but all the fun cars are off; BRZ, WRX, WRX STI and even the XV. Hopefully they will include those again when/if inventory stabilizes again. But I won't hold my breath.
We used the VIP for the Legacy, and yeah, they are limiting the vehicle list more than I'd like. I suspect that the XV will come off the list once the new wears off, but I am not hopeful for the others. I am surprised that the WRX is on there--that's relatively mainstream. The STI and BRZ? yeah, limited run vehicles, and I get that.

I don't like it, but I get it.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:06 PM   #70
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considering all the cars that sandy ate especially in the north east, I don't feel so bad about waiting though my 4/5 month wait will suck i'll still get the car I want at the price I want prices are about to shoot up because supply is low and demand just flew off a cliff heading for outer space
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:37 PM   #71
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We used the VIP for the Legacy, and yeah, they are limiting the vehicle list more than I'd like. I suspect that the XV will come off the list once the new wears off, but I am not hopeful for the others. I am surprised that the WRX is on there--that's relatively mainstream. The STI and BRZ? yeah, limited run vehicles, and I get that.

I don't like it, but I get it.
I have bought my last 4 cars with the VIP program. I will miss it if it doesn't make a comeback.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:18 PM   #72
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It's all good, Chano. Different people, different trigger points. Incidentally, the spoiler only added about $350 to the price. The rest of the $900 was shipping the car and installing the other bits it did not have.

And once you get married, you will understand the importance of reading your wife's frustration levels and determining the right action to take. In this case, ordering was the better option. If I'd suggested to her "yeah, let's spend ANOTHER two hours here today doing paperwork so you can spend MORE on a car that you'll have to wait a few weeks for anyway..."

That would have been bad. For me.

She's happy to save the money for a few months and pay less overall. Who knows, we might sell her current car in the meantime for more than the trade-in value (though we were happy with what they offered). Then she could drive my legacy wagon and I'd get to spend more time with the Spyder. Win win!

Tell me if you see one in Alaska, though. That would be a roadtrip worth making!
Well I'm glad you guys are willing to wait! You both seem fairly reasonable. I do understand about things being bad for you if they're not good for her. haha I have sympathy for all my married friends (getting to be more of them the closer I get to 30).

I just checked Continental Subaru of Anchorage's inventory. They have a red Legacy Limited with a moonroof! But no Navi... For there being 15 variations of 2013 Legacy Limited models that show up and for being one of the top dealerships in the entire U.S., it's funny that there's only ONE red Limited and it doesn't have Navi. Most that have Navi are silver and graphite. Snnooorrring.

It's tough selling Navi in Alaska, so I doubt we'll get one up here before you get yours. I'll talk to my sales guy, though, and have him keep an eye out on a cancelled order or something. haha I've driven the AlCan twice and it's always memorable. Last time was in a 2008 Forester Sports XT 5MT Dark Gray Metallic, from Park City, UT to Boise to Portland to Bellingham then through Canada to Anchorage, Alaska. Totally worth driving at least once in your life!

I hope you guys get exactly what you want. Happy hunting!
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:04 PM   #73
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I feel that you could just install the things you want after the fact for much cheaper. You can buy an aftermarket Nav system for the same if not cheaper than the stocker that still integrates with the steering wheel. You can install a remote entry system. The spoiler is a bit tricky to remove as you have to fill in the holes, however I feel that you could haggle the dealer to do this for you for free.

Granted, if you're willing to wait and want that stuff added into your loan instead of having to pay up front, then full speed ahead. However, I don't see how paying upwards of $1k to have the car you want now is that big of a deal. That and if the dealer can't sell the car they might go ahead and throw the extra options in for free.

I almost fell into that trap last weekend. Dealer had a 2012 PBP STi base with a ton of options and 12k miles that they wanted to sell me for $36k. I had gone in to put in an order for a 2013 PBP STi base with no options and wanted invoice at $33,250. A $3k~ difference when you're already spending that much really doesn't feel like much, however I think waiting 4~ months to save that much is worthwhile. It was pretty tempting though to overpay to have the car now though...
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:09 PM   #74
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I wasn't going to bring up aftermarket NAV units only because a LOT of people on here believe in full warranty for everything that comes with their new car. I'm a Garmin guy, myself, and believe in the versatility of portable navigation. There are also better head units for the stereo with navigation equal to or exceeding what Subaru offers for that same $1k.

There are those of us that will go that extra effort to save some money on the final price of the car. Then there are those of us that are married.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:04 PM   #75
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KC was calculating amounts over a 5-year period. C-Max has a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty.
All manufacturers offer extended warranties that top out at 100k-120k miles, and six to eight years. Get the one that fits your driving habits.
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