Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday October 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-29-2012, 01:29 PM   #1
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default My first engine build and swap - 2.5L 04 FXT

Hi folks,

My 2004 FXT broke a ringland some time around May or June of this year. Compression in bad cylinder is about 85-100 psi, so it still runs and gets driven about 5-10 miles per day max, but it's job as the DD is off the table. I'm currently using the lady's car as my DD. I started doing research immediately after I got my compression check and I settled on a mildly built short block. I had Jeremy at DJ's Performance build the block. Cylinders were honed using torque plates, which was important to me. I picked up some used STi heads on NASIOC and got them refreshed at my local machinist, and he bowl blended and gasket matched intake and exhaust.

This isn't really an engine "build" in the sense that I did not put the block together myself. After considerable research, I realized building a short block properly was beyond my current expertise and time constraints. The car is getting harder to start so my time is limited. My goal is to have a long block fully prepped and ready to swap into my Forester. The only thing I will need to swap over will be the intake manifold, fuel rails, injectors, A/C - things like that. I'm going to try to do the swap over a weekend, but from my experience, it will probably end up being a week long event due to things always popping up.

My horsepower goals are modest. I'd like to put down about 300-350 WHP. My turbo is an APS SR50 which on paper sounds like it should hit my goals, but from what I've read, this particular turbo was a disappointment. It was tuned By Chris Mascellero of EFI tuning and made 275 WHP/275 WTW on a Mustang Dyno @ 15psi boost. Boost was kept low because it had 160k on the clock (currently sits at 225k).

Ron at Phatbotti will be helping me tune. He's extremely patient, quick to send map revisions, and is very polite when answering all my stupid questions.

I'd like to swap the engines in the next 2 - 3 weeks, and I think I can hit my goal. I'm going to have several questions as this goes on, so I will be picking everyone's brains.

Thanks
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #2
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default Mod List

Engine:
1. 05 STi heads, stock cams, valves refreshed, bowl blend, gasket matched to intake and exhaust
2. STi short block, new OEM STi nitrided crank, CP forged pistons (99.5mm, 8.2:1 CR), King bearings, reconditioned STi rods, ARP rod bolts (built by Jeremy at DJ's Performance)
3. Killer B oil pickup
4. 11mm STi oil pump
5. 06/07 STi oil pan
6. P&L AVCS / Turbo SS oil line kit

Power:
1. Borg Warner / AGP S200sx_RS_56 Turbocharger .63, A/R (55lbs/min)

Intake Specific Mods:
1. Ported & gasket matched intake manifold
2. Motive Autowerks Composite TGV Delete Housings
3. Custom 3" CAI - deleted MAF (built by morrocco88)
4. Crawford AOS v2 universal
5. Relocated IAT sensor to intake manifold
6. STi TMIC

Exhaust Specific Mods:
1. Custom rotated up pipe (built by morrocco88)
2. Custom 3 inch v-band downpipe (built by morrocco88)
3. Cobb 3 inch Forester Catback
4. Ported exhaust manifolds, tapped for EGT probe at 2/4 cylinder button

Tuning / Boost Control:
1. Cobb Accessport V2 Speed Density Tuning - Steve Pulzone @ Pullz-On Tuning "Dux10"
2. Wideband O2 Sensor
3. Hallman Pro RX MBC
4. Tactrix Openport 2.0 for logging
5. TiAL MV-R 44mm wastegate (set to 1.0 bar)
6. SuperTrapp EWG muffler
7. Omni Power 4 Bar Map Sensor
8. 91 Octane (No e85 or Meth)

Fuel:
1. Walbro 255
2. ID 1000cc top feed injectors
3. 2005 WRX top feed fuel rails run in parallel
4. Fuelab 515 FPR

Cooling:
1. Mishimoto Radiator
2. TCI large, front-mounted Tranny cooler
3. DEI Titanium lava heat wrap on up pipe & down pipe
4. PTP Lava turbo blanket
5. DEI Reflect-A-Gold tape on TMIC

Gauges:
1. Greddy Oil Pressure
2. Greddy Boost
3. Prosport EGT
4. Prosport Oil Temp
5. AEM UEGO Digital Gauge O2 Air Fuel Wideband Controller (30-4100)
6. Prosport sandwich plate for oil pressure gauge
7. Fuel Pressure gauge (off Perrin fuel rail)

Suspension, Wheels & Brakes:
1. Stock 2003 WRX suspension
2. Whiteline steering rack bushings
3. Stainless steel braided Goodridge brake lines
4. Carbotech bobcat pads
5. 17'' OZ Prodrive P1 wheels in Anthracite color

Exterior:
1. 2000 JDM WRX -STI tall hoodscoop and custom fabricated intercooler scoop tray
2. Custom Importology Grille with powdercoated expanded metal insert to match gray mirrors and body sail panels

Last edited by Type2; 04-30-2014 at 12:27 PM. Reason: updated mod list
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #3
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

I used ARP Head studs:


A shot of the intake:


Exhaust:


Head. There were a couple spots I made sure to clean up:


Another head shot.


I used copper gasket spray on OEM gaskets.


Another shot of the head gasket.


This is before I torqued the head down:


Another angle:


I didn't take any pictures of disassembling the heads, lubing the cam and buckets, or bolting the cams on. My hands were completely coated in assembly lube, and I just wanted to get the darned things on.

Last edited by Type2; 10-29-2012 at 02:17 PM.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #4
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Fully assembled minus the valve covers. I still need to get some valve cover bolts.


I have clean, lint free rags stuffed in the holes. I just took them out for these pics.


Here is a shot of the heads all lubed up:


Another shot:


My Forester in the background. I've been driving the lady's Escape. It's actually pretty nice. Not a lot of power for a V6, but roomy and comfortable:

Last edited by Type2; 10-29-2012 at 02:32 PM.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #5
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

I still have a lot of other little things to do:
1. Oil pump - I need to pack it with petroleum jelly - not sure how much
2. Polish cam seal rod and crank rod
3. Water pump assembly
4. Timing belt assembly
5. Oil pickup & pan
6. Oil cooler/warmer

Questions:
1. How much vaseline do I use to pack oil pump?
2. I am thinking of getting the Killer B oil pan. Is this more of a luxury, or does it really provide some level of security. I do not track the car. Just occasional spirited driving.
3. I am thinking of going EWG to help liven up this turbo. Any opinions on Grimmspeed or other EWG setups?
4. Do I need mortor mounts, or can I just keep the ones I have?

Thanks
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 09:38 PM   #6
Boostedbob
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 336241
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Colorado, New Mexico
Vehicle:
08 Sti
OPB

Default

Look's like it is coming along great, I wish my HG lasted longer on my sti (67k) but went ahead and did what you did let me know how the break in goes for you!
Boostedbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 01:01 PM   #7
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Going to be putting on my oil pump tonight, and I've read that I need to pack it with petroleum jelly (Vaseline). I picked some of that up today, but I need to know how much to use. I've also read assembly lube works as well. I want to make sure it gets suction immediately, so opinions are welcome!

Thanks
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:15 PM   #8
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

It turns out I have the bolts for the valve covers, but I don't have the half moons, so I ordered a set of 4 on fleabay for $30 shipped.

Dragging my heels on the oil pump. I've read the oil pump just needs to have the gears lubed, and I've also read to pack it. I'll probably do a happy medium. Part of me wonders if I should get a set of used hotter cams to go with my bowl blended heads, but I'll probably just leave it alone.

Anyone have any pics of a properly lubed/packed oil pump? Vaseline or assembly lube? Or does it matter?
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 11:55 AM   #9
05subysti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268190
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: central tx
Vehicle:
2005 STi
RWD, 18x10.5/12.5s

Default

whered you order all your new bolts for case halves and wrist pin hex plugs?
05subysti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 11:58 AM   #10
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 05subysti View Post
whered you order all your new bolts for case halves and wrist pin hex plugs?
My builder put the block together, and when it shipped to me that's how it arrived. But, I bought all new bolts for my heads and other things from the dealer. I spent about $90 for all new cam bolts, valve cover bolts, etc... I just called up my dealer, talked to the parts guys (I've been dealing with him since my 95 L Wagon days), tell him what bolts I need, and he gets them for me.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:09 PM   #11
binjoau
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 259948
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Regina, Canada
Vehicle:
MPS 510 whp GTX35R
Long Rod Motor

Default

It will probably take a really long time to prime that oil pump, remember to also try and purge the oil feed line to the turbo before connecting it.

Take out the plugs, pull the fuel pump fuse and crank over about 10 times for about 15 seconds per time. This sounds like a lot but it can really take that long. If you have a buddy to crank it wait till the idiot light (oil can) on the dash goes out. Then you know you have some pressure built up. Use a syringe and gently feed some fresh oil into the feed nipple on the turbo and before connecting the line crank the motor a few more times in the same configuration till oil flows through then immediately attach it.

Break in procedure is another story but I would follow Ron's advice. He is a fantastic tuner and has worked with me to tune 2 of my setups and some of my friends cars. An A1 guy IMO.

Good luck!

Alex
binjoau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:21 PM   #12
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by binjoau View Post
It will probably take a really long time to prime that oil pump, remember to also try and purge the oil feed line to the turbo before connecting it.

Take out the plugs, pull the fuel pump fuse and crank over about 10 times for about 15 seconds per time. This sounds like a lot but it can really take that long. If you have a buddy to crank it wait till the idiot light (oil can) on the dash goes out. Then you know you have some pressure built up. Use a syringe and gently feed some fresh oil into the feed nipple on the turbo and before connecting the line crank the motor a few more times in the same configuration till oil flows through then immediately attach it.

Break in procedure is another story but I would follow Ron's advice. He is a fantastic tuner and has worked with me to tune 2 of my setups and some of my friends cars. An A1 guy IMO.

Good luck!

Alex
I appreciate the advice, thanks! I heard if the oil pump is properly packed it shouldn't take too long to build pressure. I have an oil pressure gauge so I should have an idea what's going on. What PSI am I looking for?

Taking the plugs out on these cars is kind of a huge pain. I hear that many people disconnect the engine mounts and jack up the engine. Will I not be able to build pressure with the plugs in?

Re: the turbo, I will do as you say. Didn't really think about purging that line. Good info.

Thanks.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #13
aboothman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 127745
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Humboldt County
Vehicle:
06 WRX 30r 6 speed
99L EJ255 6 Speed

Default

Pulling the plugs is not bad at all. Just need the right tools! A 3 and 6 inch extension and swivel should get em
aboothman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:11 PM   #14
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Pulling the plugs is not bad at all. Just need the right tools! A 3 and 6 inch extension and swivel should get em
Well, if that's the case then sounds like the way to go. On my 2.2L NA engine I pulled the plugs no problem, but just getting the coil pack off my FXT was a pain. Hardly any room down there.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #15
binjoau
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 259948
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Regina, Canada
Vehicle:
MPS 510 whp GTX35R
Long Rod Motor

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Type2

Well, if that's the case then sounds like the way to go. On my 2.2L NA engine I pulled the plugs no problem, but just getting the coil pack off my FXT was a pain. Hardly any room down there.
The trick with the rear 2 is rotate them 180 degrees as you take them out. Much easier

Pulling the plugs gives less resistance on the motor and it's much lighter duty on the starter plus you can get faster rotation which means building oil pressure quicker. You need to create a vacuum to pull oil through and it's worth the hassle.

Last edited by binjoau; 11-02-2012 at 04:20 PM.
binjoau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 04:49 PM   #16
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

I got the valve covers on today:




Then I moved on to the cam seals. I ruined one but I got the others on OK. I saw O'reilly has the cam seal I need - has anyone used a non-OEM cam seal? Is there much difference? I really want to keep moving and not wait until the dealership opens on Monday.

Another issue with cam seals - they aren't 100% straight - i.e. they are a hair bit crooked. They look ok upon first glance, but when you really stare at it, it looks like one side is about .5mm inset as opposed to the other side. What is the tolerance on something like this? I have pics, but they aren't very good:







Any help would be much appreciated. Going to move on to oil pump next while I figure out what to do with the cam seal.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #17
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Ordering an AVCS cam seal from O'reilly's

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...=camshaft+seal

It's $8 and they have it in stock.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 05:50 PM   #18
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Another setback. I started cleaning out the used oil pump I bought and look what I see:





I should have just bought a new one, but I was trying to save money. Now I have to spend the money twice. Lesson learned.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 06:47 PM   #19
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 10:23 AM   #20
Screech1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 337632
Join Date: Nov 2012
Default

Looks good!
Screech1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:09 AM   #21
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screech1 View Post
Looks good!
Thanks!

I ordered a new OEM AVCS camshaft seal this morning, as well as a new Gates water pump and Gates timing belt kit w/ blue racing belt.

Not much to do until I get the parts in.

I'm still concerned about my camshaft seals. They look ok, and I'm probably just being overly concerned. I'm going to pick up a 32mm socket tonight after work and maybe try to tap them in a hair bit more. Some people have said to seat them all the way in, and others have said to keep it flush...
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:00 PM   #22
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

I've stopped worrying about the camshaft seals. If they were so tricky, more people would have leaky seals. Got my new oil pump in, and proceeded to pack it with vaseline:

New pump just opened:


Gear lubed up:


Gear back in and packed:


Cover back on, Permatex Grey on the seal area. I made sure to put locktite on the screws.


New Gates water pump. Quite frankly, I was a little disappointed and the quality of the machining. There were imperfections on the mating surface. I suppose the seal will help that out, but really, how hard is it to machine a surface nice and flat. Oh, and the seal had a slight bend in it.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:06 PM   #23
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

I put the timing belt rear covers on, replaced some of the foam that fell off. This is what it looks like now:


Driver's side:


Passenger side:


New Gates timing belt kit w/ High Perf belt:


Closer:


I'm missing an intake cam sprocket cap so I ordered one today.


Other items ordered: Timing belt tensioner bracket & bolts, all 4 timing belt guides and bolts, thermostat. Parts should be in this Thursday or Friday. Until then, I need to watch Meaty's timing belt guide a few times before attempting to set timing.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #24
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Talked to my engine builder. Going to tap in the cam seals on the passenger side a hair bit more. Still waiting for timing belt tensioner bracket and various bolts to come in to Subaru dealership. In the meantime, I wanted to drop some of my thoughts on tuning and a couple other things...

First, I've decided to go EWG. I picked up new in box generic CNT up pipe and Tial 44mm MV-R. This should help spool up my APS SR50 and hold boost better. I use a Hallman Pro RX MBC. I really want to switch to a Dom 2.5/3XTR but can't justify it at the moment. Debating on whether to pick up a Grimmspeed ported intake manifold and exchange mine.

Hybrid Speed Density / MAF Tuning:
Need to see how my tuner feels about this first, but I'd like to install an IAT right before the TGV deletes for accurate intake temps so I can run hybrid SD & MAF tuning. MAF at low end/closed loop when IAT is heat soaked, and SD in open loop.
Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #25
Type2
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 200436
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Black

Default

Received parts Monday. I got my timing belt tensioner bracket, however the bolts for the bracket weren't ordered. The waiting game continues. I only need 3 bolts to get the timing belt on and timed.

This bracket:


The top two:


Figured I'd post up some pics of my car:





Type2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.