Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday April 25, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-26-2013, 09:53 AM   #76
DearDiaryJackpot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 343041
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: riverview
Vehicle:
2013 wrx limited
metallic silver

Default

Maybe the car would have benefit from a high rev engine but this car gets his high reviews because of his balance between hp and suspension. Maybe people don't understand that they are actually falling in love with the mix of a flat engine on this chasis.
If we throw a inline engine in there, then probably everybody would complain the car needs uogrades on the handling department to make it work or fun.
There most be a reason for when they measured the time between the new turbo focus and a brz on a hot lap, the difference was less than 5 seconds.
But yes. Probably if this car wasn't paired with scion, then we would se all the parts that we see. We have our own sponsor but scion has their own. Now they work together.
Anyway this probably doesn't belong here but wanted to leave my 2 cents.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
DearDiaryJackpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 09:58 AM   #77
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
The EJ207 in the JDM STI has always had an 8500rpm redline,
Great, so they can do it. I don't care who makes it...but I'd like to see a racier 4 in the car. Although I'm not bothered by the current engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
and people have already raised the rev limiter on the FA20 to 8000rpm without any problems. I wouldn't be surprised if the BRZ STI revs over 8000 as well. The current engine already revs pretty freely and unlike most high revving engines it has enough low end torque for around town driving.
What is the power curve looking like up there though? Falls off cam?

While it's cool people have hacked the ECU and raised the limiter, we're talking about a from-the-factory engine.

Again, not knocking Subaru in any way, shape, or form. But the engine in the car is a hair dull, imho.

And I'm not talking about output. I'm talking about character. I certainly am not the only one with that opinion.
SoapBox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 10:00 AM   #78
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DearDiaryJackpot View Post
Maybe the car would have benefit from a high rev engine but this car gets his high reviews because of his balance between hp and suspension. Maybe people don't understand that they are actually falling in love with the mix of a flat engine on this chasis.
I agree a certain % of people would miss the punchier low-end. I agree.

However, many many reviews of the car that I see comment on, while adequate, the engine is a bit dull. And that's not a complaint on HP, but rather in the not-so-sporty power delivery of the engine.

No one thing will suit anyone, that's for sure.
SoapBox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 10:12 AM   #79
DearDiaryJackpot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 343041
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: riverview
Vehicle:
2013 wrx limited
metallic silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post

I agree a certain % of people would miss the punchier low-end. I agree.

However, many many reviews of the car that I see comment on, while adequate, the engine is a bit dull. And that's not a complaint on HP, but rather in the not-so-sporty power delivery of the engine.

No one thing will suit anyone, that's for sure.
Yes you are right. In that hot lap the driver did complain about the lack of hp. This is where aftermarket comes to play.
Maybe if they used a different engine, then this car would be at another price range. And knowing toyota, they would have used something in the 2.0 department.
DearDiaryJackpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #80
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DearDiaryJackpot View Post
Yes you are right. In that hot lap the driver did complain about the lack of hp. This is where aftermarket comes to play.
Maybe if they used a different engine, then this car would be at another price range. And knowing toyota, they would have used something in the 2.0 department.
Again, I'd be ok with 200 HP, but a more racy power delivery. Yes, I know it would be at the expense of tactability, and around-town performance. But so be it.

To me, the engine feels a bit too pedestrian, like it was meant for an Outback. Much like the EJ25...well, maybe that's a bit of an overstatement.

It is not a bad little mill by any stretch of the imagination.
SoapBox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:36 AM   #81
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

But in a day and age when cars are getting heavier (unless you resort to exotic materials, which isn't feasible right now for cars in this price range), engines with "racy power delivery" but not a lot of displacement (and likely not a lot of lower end grunt) will make it a pain in the ass at times when trying to get moving, unless you want redlining to be necessary.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM   #82
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
But in a day and age when cars are getting heavier (unless you resort to exotic materials, which isn't feasible right now for cars in this price range), engines with "racy power delivery" but not a lot of displacement (and likely not a lot of lower end grunt) will make it a pain in the ass at times when trying to get moving, unless you want redlining to be necessary.
That's fine, the BRZ is not that. It's light, relatively speaking. As a previous AP1 owner, while it wasn't exactly punchy off idle it was absolutely fine driving around town without having to resort to "redlining". Despite people's complaints and over-statements.

Again, I said that in a daily-driver, I'd take the added low-end. As a weekend toy, however, the high-strung engine is just fine with me.
SoapBox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:31 PM   #83
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

But for a lot of people, it's going to play the dual-role of DD and weekend toy. So they have to meet somewhere in the middle, since more people will use it as a DD than only as a weekend toy anyway.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #84
spaceywilly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174268
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Providence
Vehicle:
2002 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
But for a lot of people, it's going to play the dual-role of DD and weekend toy. So they have to meet somewhere in the middle, since more people will use it as a DD than only as a weekend toy anyway.
Yeah that's actually why I'm glad they took the route they did and kept it NA with nice usable low end torque. Think about your typical turbo 4 like the WRX/STI/EVO. It's a rocketship once the boost kicks in, but before that you may as well be riding a lawn mower. If you take a BRZ and boost it, especially with a supercharger, you'll still have that low end torque for lazy driving, but you can fill in what's missing at the upper RPMs and in the famous torque dip, and end up with a nice big plateau of torque. I think that will be the way to go with this car, once everything is sorted out.
spaceywilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #85
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
But for a lot of people, it's going to play the dual-role of DD and weekend toy. So they have to meet somewhere in the middle, since more people will use it as a DD than only as a weekend toy anyway.

Yes, I understand. I said what I'd want in the engine. In addition to stating, repeatedly, that I thought it was OK in present form.
SoapBox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:38 PM   #86
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Yeah that's actually why I'm glad they took the route they did and kept it NA with nice usable low end torque. Think about your typical turbo 4 like the WRX/STI/EVO. It's a rocketship once the boost kicks in, but before that you may as well be riding a lawn mower. If you take a BRZ and boost it, especially with a supercharger, you'll still have that low end torque for lazy driving, but you can fill in what's missing at the upper RPMs and in the famous torque dip, and end up with a nice big plateau of torque. I think that will be the way to go with this car, once everything is sorted out.
That's one of the beauty things of turbos. Different sized turbos (employing different technology) will respond differently than other turbos on different engines (employing different technology). The cars you mention, wrx, sti and evo, they did the best they could with the technology they could afford at the time they were developed.

There are some turbo cars I've driven recently that I was surprised they even had a turbo, if I didn't know better I'd have never known.

All products evolve over time.

the short story is, twin scroll turbo + direct injection + variable timing = max torque can be achieved at like 2000 rpm.

Also worth mentioning is that for those that would mod a car anyway it takes a heck of a lot less money to make a turbo spool faster (offering quicker power delivery) than to make a NA engine have power equal to what a factory turbo can do on a similarly sized engine.

besides, I don't really understand, if you have 2 cars that between 750rpm (call it idle) and 2500rpm that produce the same torque, but one of them has a turbo and produces 50-75 more torque through the rest of the rev range, why is it that the turbo motor that produces more torque through the rev range have less usable torque before the turbo spools, if the two cars have the same torque before that point?

Last edited by samagon; 02-26-2013 at 03:45 PM.
samagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:44 PM   #87
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Yeah that's actually why I'm glad they took the route they did and kept it NA with nice usable low end torque. Think about your typical turbo 4 like the WRX/STI/EVO. It's a rocketship once the boost kicks in, but before that you may as well be riding a lawn mower.
That's a bit of an exaggeration, unless you accelerate a lot from 25 mph in top gear in those cars or expect peak acceleration and response at really low rpms.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:51 PM   #88
spaceywilly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174268
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Providence
Vehicle:
2002 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
That's a bit of an exaggeration, unless you accelerate a lot from 25 mph in top gear in those cars or expect peak acceleration and response at really low rpms.
There's one on ramp I take every day to work that is a 90 degree right followed by steep uphill that I take in 2nd gear. My WRX bogs down and doesn't accelerate up the hill so I have to floor it at the top to join traffic, but the BRZ accelerates smoothly up the hill and by the top I am at highway speed.
spaceywilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 04:01 PM   #89
Gixhost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 180111
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Land of Ham, MD
Vehicle:
* 2004.114.3 STi
Aspen White

Default

I am glad at least one person understood my comment, it was not a jab at the BZR/FR-S/GT86 or Subaru and their boxer engine. It was just a compliment to Toyota in their ability to build something even more special, with their distinct signature, and that it would be welcomed. These vehicles are Subaru through and through...there is no hiding it. That is not a bad thing, but more variety is never a bad thing either.

Anyone can also see why Subaru and Toyota collaborated on this vehicle...because Toyota was finally looking to capitalize on their investment in Fuji Heavy Industries in a big way...they used Subaru resources to develop a platform that they plan to lean on heavily when it comes to future sports cars...not to benefit aftermarket parts suppliers R&D time...or necessarily benefit Subaru long term for that matter...if either of these two cars was gonna be axed...it would end up being the Subaru first, not the Scion.

Last edited by Gixhost; 02-26-2013 at 10:10 PM.
Gixhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:16 AM   #90
WRXHillClimb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206907
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Abq, NM
Vehicle:
2014 EvoX GSR
2005 S2000 Track Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
There's one on ramp I take every day to work that is a 90 degree right followed by steep uphill that I take in 2nd gear. My WRX bogs down and doesn't accelerate up the hill so I have to floor it at the top to join traffic, but the BRZ accelerates smoothly up the hill and by the top I am at highway speed.
Never driven a rex before so I can't say what the tranny is like nor the gear gating, but you're either taking the turn too slow or should be shifting down into first to offset the issue. My 1st gear goes up to ~43mph, so any time I'm below like 30 it goes back into 1st if I anticipate needing acceleration.

I take the exact same kind of on ramp every morning and am going 75-80 before the ramp joins with the interstate.
WRXHillClimb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:24 AM   #91
spaceywilly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174268
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Providence
Vehicle:
2002 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Never driven a rex before so I can't say what the tranny is like nor the gear gating, but you're either taking the turn too slow or should be shifting down into first to offset the issue. My 1st gear goes up to ~43mph, so any time I'm below like 30 it goes back into 1st if I anticipate needing acceleration.

I take the exact same kind of on ramp every morning and am going 75-80 before the ramp joins with the interstate.
Clearly you haven't driven a WRX... shifting into 1st while moving is never an option, it just grinds and eventually snaps back and tries to break your wrist.
spaceywilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #92
DearDiaryJackpot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 343041
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: riverview
Vehicle:
2013 wrx limited
metallic silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post

Clearly you haven't driven a WRX... shifting into 1st while moving is never an option, it just grinds and eventually snaps back and tries to break your wrist.
I have never used first other than almost complete stop cause i always do brake engine. Now I'm afraid
DearDiaryJackpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:54 AM   #93
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
There's one on ramp I take every day to work that is a 90 degree right followed by steep uphill that I take in 2nd gear. My WRX bogs down and doesn't accelerate up the hill so I have to floor it at the top to join traffic, but the BRZ accelerates smoothly up the hill and by the top I am at highway speed.
that must be a very steep hill. was it like a 50% grade or something?

I had a wrx, I even kept it stock for a while and I never had any issues accelerating in 2nd gear from 25mph, even uphill.

and yeah, the synchro on first in the wrx doesn't allow downshifting above 10mph, if it's all warmed up.
samagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:45 AM   #94
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 That's *Sir*
Weinerlicks of Douche 2u.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Never driven a rex before
Fix that.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:52 AM   #95
mhoward1
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
1832 Steam Buggy
Wood

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Never driven a rex before
well that explains the screen name..


mhoward1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:41 PM   #96
scott_gunn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4203
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Vehicle:
2009 WRX 5spd hatch
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Clearly you haven't driven a WRX... shifting into 1st while moving is never an option, it just grinds and eventually snaps back and tries to break your wrist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DearDiaryJackpot View Post
I have never used first other than almost complete stop cause i always do brake engine. Now I'm afraid
With the 2002 WRX that was definitely a problem. It shouldn't be in a newer one. Your 2013 WRX should have no problem downshifting into 1st, nor should it have a problem with bogging in 2nd around a right hand turn.
scott_gunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 10:25 AM   #97
a2cpc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10139
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy/Broad Ripple
Vehicle:
WRX 09 Outback 15
Miata 93

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Clearly you haven't driven a WRX... shifting into 1st while moving is never an option, it just grinds and eventually snaps back and tries to break your wrist.
I did it with both my 2002 2.5RS and my 2003 WRX without problems while autocrossing and both my transmissions survived.
a2cpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 12:24 AM   #98
sotti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 33474
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
04 M3
Imola Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
I did it with both my 2002 2.5RS and my 2003 WRX without problems while autocrossing and both my transmissions survived.
I also autocrossed a 98 2.5RS and a 2002 WRX and was able to shift into 1st while moving.

rev matching FTW.
sotti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 08:03 AM   #99
scott_gunn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4203
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Vehicle:
2009 WRX 5spd hatch
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
I also autocrossed a 98 2.5RS and a 2002 WRX and was able to shift into 1st while moving.

rev matching FTW.
Some cars had it worse than others. I could always make mine work with double clutching but other times it had about a 50/50 shot at working at any speed greater than a gentle roll.
scott_gunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 11:27 AM   #100
BrysImpreza
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3102
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Northern, CT
Vehicle:
2012 Sport Limited
Ice Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
Probably pretty good. Hood clearance and tuning would be the only issues to work out.
Aside from that whole 180 degree turn on the intake manifolds between the FA and FB motors. Not to mention internals.
BrysImpreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.