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Old 04-30-2013, 03:46 PM   #276
amalgrover
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on the newer models, no, but on his model, it should still be back by the pump
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:54 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
on the newer models, no, but on his model, it should still be back by the pump
Yep agreed, all the later OBDII cars should all be back by the pump. I have my 06 wired this way through the stock FPC. Have any of you use the Fuel Pro controller from Jeff/ DCCD Pro?
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:44 AM   #278
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Even if it's back by the pump, or if I use the Fuel Pro I will still be running all the current back through something other than straight 10 gauge (which is the whole point of the hard wire). And the way the controller functions (from what I can tell from the schematic) is a pulse width modulation on the negative line (not an actual ground). The positive is always held high (+12V), and the negative varies to control the pump. I don't think this will work with the relay.

I haven't actually tried wiring it this way, but just looking at the schematic, and the fact that it's running current through small OEM wiring/circuits, it doesn't seem like a good solution to me. I would love to have an ECU controlled fuel pump, but not if it's running excessive current through an electrical system that's not designed to handle it. Someone correct me if I'm way off base here.

Just to be more clear. This is how mine is wired:



And I believe this is how you're suggesting it be wired:



Is that correct? Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. The second diagram still has the pump grounded to chassis. The relay is just going back through the FPC. Is this OK to do? Does it work with a normal relay or does the PWM cycle too quickly for the relay to handle? I guess I could always try wiring mine up this way and see what happens...
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:05 AM   #279
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I literally am saying that you would put your new wiring from the battery to the relay and then from the relay to the fpc. Think of it as rewiring the fpc and not the pump. The purpose of the rewire is to increase the wire diameter because the stock wiring is too small to carry the full current output from the battery all the way back to the pump. Wiring it like I was suggesting, you would be reducing the smaller wiring distance from like 12ft down to 3ft. You could even rewire up to the fpc and then from the fpc to the pump. This way the only factory piece being used is the controller itself. I promise that you will still see the benefits of the rewire doing things this way, and it should allow you to still run the fuel pump on the factory 33%, 66%, and 100% duty cycles.


...Keep in mind that I have not actually tested this configuration to see if it still works or not, but in theory, it should still be very beneficial vs the stock wiring. Obviously, there will be a slight voltage drop across the controller itself, but if you rewire so that there is a minimal to zero measureable voltage drop all the way up to the controller input, you shouldn't see very much of a drop at all on the controller output.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:18 AM   #280
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I'm pushing 210whp and 213 ft/lbs of tq at 6,000 ft on an 04 stage 2 WRX. Lol. Gotta start somewhere I guess.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:27 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
I literally am saying that you would put your new wiring from the battery to the relay and then from the relay to the fpc. Think of it as rewiring the fpc and not the pump. The purpose of the rewire is to increase the wire diameter because the stock wiring is too small to carry the full current output from the battery all the way back to the pump. Wiring it like I was suggesting, you would be reducing the smaller wiring distance from like 12ft down to 3ft. You could even rewire up to the fpc and then from the fpc to the pump. This way the only factory piece being used is the controller itself. I promise that you will still see the benefits of the rewire doing things this way, and it should allow you to still run the fuel pump on the factory 33%, 66%, and 100% duty cycles.


...Keep in mind that I have not actually tested this configuration to see if it still works or not, but in theory, it should still be very beneficial vs the stock wiring. Obviously, there will be a slight voltage drop across the controller itself, but if you rewire so that there is a minimal to zero measureable voltage drop all the way up to the controller input, you shouldn't see very much of a drop at all on the controller output.
The drop across the FPC, and the couple feet of smaller wire is what worries me. The 465 can draw quite a bit of current and I worry that the OEM FPC circuit would reach it's limit at some point.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:37 AM   #282
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According to the flow chart, you aren't even pulling over 20amps until 120psi at 13.5V. At 80psi you are only pulling 18amps. The controller should have no problem handling what you will be running unless you are running a ridiculous base pressure or something.

I was pulling a peak of about 18 amps with my DW300 and the BAP, and I saw zero issues. I was even on the factory wiring, fuse, and controller. I bet you could even run the factory 15amp fuse and rarely to never see it actually blow.

The thing is that you may have a pretty high PEAK amperage, but unless you are sitting at redline for long periods of time, the system isn't seeing those amp levels for any kind of significant time...we are talking a couple seconds tops unless you are topping the car out.

Now, if you were planning to do time trials where your car might see 30-60 mins of continuous high fuel pump demands, I probably wouldn't go this route, but if your car is going to maybe see a few 30 sec autocross courses or 11 sec drag passes, I wouldn't sweat it at all.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:16 AM   #283
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What's the voltage drop to the pump if you hardwire only to the FPC vs. no hardwire at all? Is there even a difference? I already melted one 30AMP fuse with my current setup, which I think would allow the best current flow. I'm hoping it was a defective fuse though.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:36 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by xluben View Post
What's the voltage drop to the pump if you hardwire only to the FPC vs. no hardwire at all? Is there even a difference? I already melted one 30AMP fuse with my current setup, which I think would allow the best current flow. I'm hoping it was a defective fuse though.
It had to have either been a defective fuse or you have an issue somewhere. There is no reason you should have seen anything close to the amps to fry a 30amp fuse. The thing about fuse amp ratings is they don't instantly blow as soon as you hit that amperage. They take time to melt the material inside there. So at exactly 30 amps it will take X-sec to blow, and at 35 amps it will take Y-sec. Like I said above, I was running a 15 amp fuse but was pulling a max of about 18 amps. I never blew this 15 amp fuse or had any issues whatsoever with wiring overheating.

There definitely would be a difference. Like I said, I have never actually tested any of this, so I couldn't tell you what the difference is, but theoretically, it should be pretty decent, especially if you replace the input and output wires on the controller. This means that the only drop there would be would be on the controller itself.



EDIT: If your controller is easy to get to, and you have a multimeter, you can estimate what the drop would be by using the Vdrop = IR formula...the voltage with a direct hardwire is usually approx 13.6V, and I bet the voltage with it wired back to the controller and then from the controller to the pump would still be above 13V

Last edited by amalgrover; 05-01-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:13 PM   #285
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The fuse holder melted not the fuse right? If so that points to a bad high resistance connection in the socket.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:55 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
It had to have either been a defective fuse or you have an issue somewhere. There is no reason you should have seen anything close to the amps to fry a 30amp fuse. The thing about fuse amp ratings is they don't instantly blow as soon as you hit that amperage. They take time to melt the material inside there. So at exactly 30 amps it will take X-sec to blow, and at 35 amps it will take Y-sec. Like I said above, I was running a 15 amp fuse but was pulling a max of about 18 amps. I never blew this 15 amp fuse or had any issues whatsoever with wiring overheating.

There definitely would be a difference. Like I said, I have never actually tested any of this, so I couldn't tell you what the difference is, but theoretically, it should be pretty decent, especially if you replace the input and output wires on the controller. This means that the only drop there would be would be on the controller itself.



EDIT: If your controller is easy to get to, and you have a multimeter, you can estimate what the drop would be by using the Vdrop = IR formula...the voltage with a direct hardwire is usually approx 13.6V, and I bet the voltage with it wired back to the controller and then from the controller to the pump would still be above 13V
This will be interesting to check and see what the voltage drop is. I have mine wired through the FPC with the DW kit. I don't have my multimeter with me. I meant to bring it but forgot. I will try to check this out when I'm in HP Techs next week, hopefully installing my next driveshaft, axle bar upgrades and Ohlins.

Kelly, What is your fueling system like with your EFR7670, are you running the Walbro 460/465, or another big hardwired pump like those of us on here? If you are have you checked this voltage drop through the FPC?

Bottom line is Juan should be good with a hardwired Wally 465 through the FPC with the stock FPR if there is minimal voltage drop. If not wired through the FPC and wired directly to the pump 100% all the time then he may need an adjustable FPR.

Last edited by manitou; 05-01-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:30 PM   #287
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I haven't moved up to a bigger pump or wiring yet since I'm still @ 15psi but I intend on doing the full rewire and still use the factory FPC. I'm also only on the DW300 pump. I plan on ungraded as necessary to find the actually limits of the pump on stock wiring, on upgraded wiring, with/without FPC, etc.

Measuring the voltage drop across the FPC won't be as easy as measuring the resistance across it and using ohms law since its a solid state device. It would be best to measure the voltage across it while in operation.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:10 PM   #288
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^ this is how I was intending for him to test it...I wanted him to actually disconnect the connector, turn it on, check the voltage at the input, turn it off, reconnect the connector, disconnect at the fuel pump, turn it on, and check voltage at the output. This should at least give us a ballpark figure for the drop across the controller itself. Now, I am 110% certain that rewiring up to the controller will give positive results compared to the stock wiring up to the controller, what I am not certain about is how different those results will be compared to rewiring without the controller in the mix.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:30 PM   #289
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The car is running again , the clutch feels better than ever...

oh and here is a taste of the spool. Boost is the same but one log is with romraider and one with the Cobb AP. One pull after the other:



64 with high humidity
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:38 PM   #290
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Nice data! Now give us an overlay with the old hta setup. Looks like big boost at 5k+
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:54 PM   #291
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Here is vs the FP Black with the FMIC. That is the only pull I have since the FP black decided to fail after that pull .

That was about a month ago so temps were in the 40-50, it looks like 300 rpms slower. FP black was around 27-28psi....
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:24 PM   #292
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You need a custom parameter for the AP. Why does it look like it is spooling sooner? Pull started sooner? Different gear? There's no reason the logger should cause that.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:33 PM   #293
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You need a custom parameter for the AP. Why does it look like it is spooling sooner? Pull started sooner? Different gear? There's no reason the logger should cause that.
what do you mean by a custom parameter? romrider is the one that is not reading higher than 22.7psi. The problem is that I cannot log the wideband with AP and I cannot use ATR either because my AP cable was modified since my AP was damaged. Is not a USB cable anymore...

I don't know why is spooling faster, heat? the one that spool the fastest is the first pull. I did the other pull a few minutes later.

Keep in mind that I have ported heads and cams. My car has always spooled slower after doing with the head work. It even spool slower with the VF39 vs stock motor Vf39.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:13 PM   #294
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I did another pull before doing the other pulls just to check my boost and it seems that something may got disconnect after the pull... I turn down the boost down a little after the partial pull.



3 different pull with the 6466 all them today... I start all my pull at 2000rpm on the same road. I also start my pulls at the same location point on the street.

Last edited by juanmedina; 05-02-2013 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:27 PM   #295
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How much heat in the headers?
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:35 AM   #296
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I did another pull before doing the other pulls just to check my boost and it seems that something may got disconnect after the pull... I turn down the boost down a little after the partial pull.



3 different pull with the 6466 all them today... I start all my pull at 2000rpm on the same road. I also start my pulls at the same location point on the street.
I'm surprised you don't spool quicker than that. I spool at nearly the same RPM yet I have GSC S3 282 cams and AMR big tube UEL header. I figured with smaller cams my setup would hit full spool around 4200 RPM. Interested to see what sort of power you'll make. Right now the Cobb AP claims 576 WHP 509 WTQ at 24 psi. Vehicle weight set to 3550 lbs in fourth gear starting at 5k ending at 7.5k rpm. Road I was on (highway) was slightly uphill.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:13 AM   #297
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I'm surprised you don't spool quicker than that. I spool at nearly the same RPM yet I have GSC S3 282 cams and AMR big tube UEL header. I figured with smaller cams my setup would hit full spool around 4200 RPM. Interested to see what sort of power you'll make. Right now the Cobb AP claims 576 WHP 509 WTQ at 24 psi. Vehicle weight set to 3550 lbs in fourth gear starting at 5k ending at 7.5k rpm. Road I was on (highway) was slightly uphill.
Can you post a virtual dyno? Just log the pull with the AP and open the pull with virtual dyno.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #298
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I think at a larger turbo size cams start making much less of a difference. I see the same variation as Juan with my HTA35r. It's not out of the range to see 300-400rpm spool difference with different temps and how much heat is in the headers.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:58 PM   #299
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I think at a larger turbo size cams start making much less of a difference. I see the same variation as Juan with my HTA35r. It's not out of the range to see 300-400rpm spool difference with different temps and how much heat is in the headers.
The cool thing is that it holds power all the way to redline. So even if someone else get better spools I bet they will not hold power up top and they will have to shift earlier than I do.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #300
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Can you post a virtual dyno? Just log the pull with the AP and open the pull with virtual dyno.
If I get a good opportunity sometime today I'd be more than happy to. Just need to figure out how to set up the logging with this crazy AP. I'm used to my good ol' UTEC.
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