Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday September 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2013, 10:49 AM   #101
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovative Tuning View Post
If he had an 06 WRX tranny that's a longer gear and longer final drive. Both help his setup spool sooner, not the other way around.

Like I said, it's good setup and I'm not knocking it. I just don't understand why the hubbub over the spool/torque.

I would never knock someone for being safe with their engine. It's a lot more fun to drive your car than have it sit broken, regardless of how much power it makes. I'm running more hp and tq on my stock shortblock, but I'm the first to say I don't recommend it and I don't expect it to last.
agreed! I think I have a really fun setup. I think my spool is really good for a stock location 68lb/min turbo... and I can also make more power if I wanted to haha
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
juanmedina is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 11:45 AM   #102
Innovative Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 67958
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: www.InnovativeTuning.com
Vehicle:
MY96 Time Attack
and 06 STI daily

Default

Totally. It's easy for me to crank on my track car with a stock shortblock. My trailer has a winch if it dies. I'll be retuning my STI for E85 on the hta68 before bringing it out for the year and I'm not planning on letting it make over 400. You're already pushing further than I'm willing to on my normal street car.
Innovative Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #103
Slimsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155696
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 BLK STI Dom3XTR
415/405 Precision Tuning

Default

Yeah u guys are brave. I'm on a fully built block and running 27psi and making 415 scares me. You guys are either brave, crazy or rich. Lol
Slimsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 02:15 PM   #104
amalgrover
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183480
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Valdosta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 Audi A3 Quattro
2009 Forester XT

Default

lol brave and crazy more than likely...
amalgrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 10:38 PM   #105
Slimsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155696
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 BLK STI Dom3XTR
415/405 Precision Tuning

Default

I can't wait to see numbers after u do a fmic
Slimsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #106
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee Biker View Post
I guess I'm just looking for an ultimate carrying capacity for the various intake sizes as if there is a speed the air cannot surpass and it causes a backup or reverse pressure?

Like a red on a 65mm, all SD. Sounds like a terrible idea, kinda.
I'm running a Cobb SF intake (65mm, I believe) with my Blouch 3.5xtr/ 3" inlet/ Perrin 3" TIH and SD tune and it not holding me back power wise. Junior has kept the timing fairly conservative, which is probably limiting my power some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I will give the same basic answer i did about the MAF sensor being in the flow....i really think the bends in the intake tract are more of a hinderance than the diameter. Especially the way most turbo inlets caulk into large stock location turbos....the "effective" cross section area is pretty small.

But to answer your question about pressure backup or reverse pressure....if there is a big restriction in the intake tract and you are running a silicone inlet....you can collapse them. IE the turbo will basically suck the inlet closed.

I would just keep it simple and match the intake to the compressor inlet. The largest stock location comp inlet is 3".....so simply pair it with a 3" turbo inlet and 76mm intake.

The only ones bigger are several of the FP turbos but you need to buy their custom turbo inlet anyway.

You really dont want increases in pipe diameter as you go through the intake. IE you dont want to run a 65mm intake with a 3" turbo inlet. You will get a sudden pressure drop and the flow will slow down.
I do believe you are right about the all the bends, turns in the intake tract but I think that the Cobb SF intake does match up pretty well with the Blouch 3" inlet and the stock location intake tract! It's not holding my set up back in flow. I am seeing 440 g/s on some 3rd gear logs. Maybe I would do better with a 73mm intake though as that seems like a better match?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
The smaller the pipe that harder it will be for the motor to pull mass quantities of air through it. That's a mechanical loss and an efficiency hit which shows up as a loss of power.
I think the important aspect is to have all the components matched up to work in union for the best efficiency!
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 11:45 AM   #107
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
I'm running a Cobb SF intake (65mm, I believe) with my Blouch 3.5xtr/ 3" inlet/ Perrin 3" TIH and SD tune and it not holding me back power wise.
You really have no proof of that until you take it off and put a bigger one on. And the only way to really pinpoint a number on it is to completely max out the tune with the current intake....then swap on a bigger one and do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
It's not holding my set up back in flow. I am seeing 440 g/s on some 3rd gear logs. Maybe I would do better with a 73mm intake though as that seems like a better match?
g/s is meaningless to compare across cars unless the same exact MAF scale is used. MAF voltage is the parameter to compare.

the intake track is indeed holding your setup back in flow. it does on every stock location setup. any rotated setup of the same turbo will spool faster and make more power than its stock location counterpart.

its simply impossible for this



to flow like this

Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #108
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
You really have no proof of that until you take it off and put a bigger one on. And the only way to really pinpoint a number on it is to completely max out the tune with the current intake....then swap on a bigger one and do the same.

g/s is meaningless to compare across cars unless the same exact MAF scale is used. MAF voltage is the parameter to compare.

the intake track is indeed holding your setup back in flow. it does on every stock location setup. any rotated setup of the same turbo will spool faster and make more power than its stock location counterpart.

its simply impossible for this

to flow like this
True, true! I should have said it does not seem to be holding me back at 540 WHP with a 58 lb/ min turbo. I was suggesting that maybe the 73-76mm intake would net me more on my SD tune. What do you think?

I do realize that the SL turbo is not as good because of all the things you mention and what the photos demonstrate but like Juan this is what I have now and I want to maximize my power and tune! Would swapping out intakes need any rescaling if the tune is all SD? I have the MAF disconnected and block off plate installed.

That SL hard pipe photo is an extreme example. There are no kinks in my Perrin TIH.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 12:10 PM   #109
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

if your tune isnt being pushed, then i dont think its necessary to install a larger intake. there is a point where the smaller intake may become a restriction, but the only way to figure that point out is through testing. I mean in the end its probabyl not worth the time, money and energy to do the testing if you can simply add 1 psi to the current setup and gain 10-15whp more.

changing the intake really shouldnt require any drastic changes in the tune. but if you switch over to a cold air intake from teh hot box, then the IAT temperature compensations may come more/less into play due to the temp difference and those may need to be tweaked.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 12:23 PM   #110
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
if your tune isnt being pushed, then i dont think its necessary to install a larger intake. there is a point where the smaller intake may become a restriction, but the only way to figure that point out is through testing. I mean in the end its probabyl not worth the time, money and energy to do the testing if you can simply add 1 psi to the current setup and gain 10-15whp more.

changing the intake really shouldnt require any drastic changes in the tune. but if you switch over to a cold air intake from teh hot box, then the IAT temperature compensations may come more/less into play due to the temp difference and those may need to be tweaked.
I have customized the Cobb box, fully enclosed it and feed it with a ram air from my bumper vent so it's essentially a CAI. my IAT reads 2-3 degrees warmer than ambient temps, when cruising on closed loop.

Junior and I are making fine adjustments to the tunes. So I'm not doing anything different to the parts now.

Last edited by manitou; 01-27-2013 at 07:15 PM.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 03:18 PM   #111
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimsti View Post
Yeah u guys are brave. I'm on a fully built block and running 27psi and making 415 scares me. You guys are either brave, crazy or rich. Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
lol brave and crazy more than likely...
LOL true

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
You really have no proof of that until you take it off and put a bigger one on. And the only way to really pinpoint a number on it is to completely max out the tune with the current intake....then swap on a bigger one and do the same.


g/s is meaningless to compare across cars unless the same exact MAF scale is used. MAF voltage is the parameter to compare.

the intake track is indeed holding your setup back in flow. it does on every stock location setup. any rotated setup of the same turbo will spool faster and make more power than its stock location counterpart.

its simply impossible for this



to flow like this

wow that stock location turbo inlet transition looks terrible.

This is how mine looks and it has a 3.4" inlet:



I bet I can do something like this if I were to run full SD. A straight tube to the front grill. I would have to run a smaller radiator but I think is do able. Even If I have to step down to a 3" tube with a .049" wall with ceramic coating.

juanmedina is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 04:36 PM   #112
amalgrover
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183480
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Valdosta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 Audi A3 Quattro
2009 Forester XT

Default

yeah, that is about how most of the ones I have done or seen look. i think the issue with the one in the picture is that it appears they have a hard inlet and then used a cheap thin walled straight silicon coupler to connect to the turbo. because the coupler is so thin and it is straight, it looks like it just crushed when trying to make that slight offset that is required. most the silicon turbo inlets that are made for our cars already have this bend built into them which helps reduce the amount of flexing/crushing.
amalgrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 05:39 PM   #113
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

no...its straight....thats just how they all are with hard inlets.

ive had both aps and the ap inlets on my cars and they were both exactly like that. the ap silicone hose is pretty thin....but the hard pipes just cant be clocked right or really moved around at all with the tab that goes to the intake manifold (i chopped it off both of mine to give more play) and the electrical harness, vacuum nipple and power steering line right there all just make them pretty immobile.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 09:16 PM   #114
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default Subaru stock location turbo inlet hose

Here's what mine looks like installed.



The Perrin seems pretty stout, fits amazingly well, is reinforced very well, and is one of the only 3" on the market. i can't imagine it collapsing unless there becomes a restriction upstream of it! I installed an end beaded coupler tube which is much stronger between the TIH and the AFTA MAF hose.

Sorry Juan, I'm just trying to make a pitch for stock location and the TMIC, which you and I share!

I do like your build!

Last edited by manitou; 01-27-2013 at 09:30 PM.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #115
Slimsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155696
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 BLK STI Dom3XTR
415/405 Precision Tuning

Default

I use the venair on my dom 3 and its only a 2.4" and u can see where it gets indented on the left side. I can't imagine a 3". It's so tight in there. The more I keep fighting the need to go rotated the more I realise it would've been cheaper and more efficient in the long run. Lol
Slimsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 09:50 PM   #116
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimsti View Post
I use the venair on my dom 3 and its only a 2.4" and u can see where it gets indented on the left side. I can't imagine a 3". It's so tight in there. The more I keep fighting the need to go rotated the more I realise it would've been cheaper and more efficient in the long run. Lol
It is tight for the 3" inlet hose and I'm sure the 84mm FP inlet is tight also but they both look to fit well. I could see the hose clamps sharp edge cutting the inlet hose and causing a leak.

I would do a boost leak test from the end of the inlet hose, (PVC end cap with a cemented and threaded shader valve inside the inlet with a hose clamp sealing it) pump the intake full of compressed air and use soapy water to check for leaks!
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:03 PM   #117
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

from the other thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimsti View Post
Yeah Juan I'm thinking u have a cut in ur inlet. Basically right where it connects to the turbo it gets tight and my buddies was sliced on the left side and was having ur same findings. Not saying for sure but a boost leak test couldnt hurt
If I have a cut on the inlet I am going to be pissed. FP wants $250 for just the inlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^ thats basically what i've been telling him. if it is a leak causing this mis-reading it has to be between the maf and turbo. a leak post turbo will make the mafv read higher than usual and the car would be running rich as hell.

the problem is, that as soon as he fixes the problem the car will not be drivable....the boost will have to be turned down to less than 20psi to keep the MAFv below 5.
If I can make close to 550whp with my problem "not maxing out the maf" and with no other ill effect. I will keep the car as it is and not fix the issue . So far on all my WOT pulls I have been able to keep my AFRs consistent where I want them to be. Maybe the inlet is leaking on one of the nipples or something.

By the way the FMIC is on its way . The bigger injector should go in soon, Ron is re-scaling the MAF right now. The first MAF tab looks really good to me. I imagine as soon as Ron is satisfied with the scaling the bigger injectors will go in.

No AOS here..

Last edited by juanmedina; 01-27-2013 at 10:08 PM.
juanmedina is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:18 PM   #118
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
10.9s @ 126mph

Default

I only have a 2.4" turbo inlet, but I'm using the AMR hard inlet pipe and it fits really well. My coupler isn't scrunched up at all. The 3" might be worse, but it does have an offset built into the coupler so I'd imagine it would still fit OK. I'm surprised you guys are running high HP with soft inlets. I heard that would cause issues.
xluben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:23 PM   #119
Slimsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155696
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 BLK STI Dom3XTR
415/405 Precision Tuning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I only have a 2.4" turbo inlet, but I'm using the AMR hard inlet pipe and it fits really well. My coupler isn't scrunched up at all. The 3" might be worse, but it does have an offset built into the coupler so I'd imagine it would still fit OK. I'm surprised you guys are running high HP with soft inlets. I heard that would cause issues.
Wanted to save some cash on the install and not have to remove the intake manifold. It fits, but its right. And Juan, nice call on the fmic I can't wait to see ur results.
Slimsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:25 PM   #120
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
If I can make close to 550whp with my problem "not maxing out the maf" and with no other ill effect. I will keep the car as it is and not fix the issue .

. I imagine as soon as Ron is satisfied with the scaling the bigger injectors will go in.
lol...i really dont think thats wise. I think the issue needs to be found and remedied first.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:30 PM   #121
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
from the other thread
No AOS here..
Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I only have a 2.4" turbo inlet, but I'm using the AMR hard inlet pipe and it fits really well. My coupler isn't scrunched up at all. The 3" might be worse, but it does have an offset built into the coupler so I'd imagine it would still fit OK. I'm surprised you guys are running high HP with soft inlets. I heard that would cause issues.
I would consider installing the Crawford AOS on your car especially with the boost levels your are running! They work very well and you're in a warmer climate so it will work even better down there!

The newer Perrin inlets and the FP inlets are reinforced very well with wire imbedded in the multi ply silicone hose. I think they would be hard to collapse. I believe the bad rap on the silicone inlets came from cheap knock off versions. My last 2.4" that I used with my VF48 was a Gimmick MS hose and it was very stout also!
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:30 PM   #122
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Which front mount did you buy?
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 12:11 AM   #123
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
10.9s @ 126mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
The newer Perrin inlets and the FP inlets are reinforced very well with wire imbedded in the multi ply silicone hose. I think they would be hard to collapse. I believe the bad rap on the silicone inlets came from cheap knock off versions. My last 2.4" that I used with my VF48 was a Gimmick MS hose and it was very stout also!
I believe pet3r collapsed the Perrin with his previous 1.5XTR setup. I could be wrong on that though.
xluben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 06:40 AM   #124
amalgrover
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183480
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Valdosta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 Audi A3 Quattro
2009 Forester XT

Default

the early version perrins had issues with collapsing. they changed the design, and it hasn't really been an issue since. this also applies to gimmick and a few other soft inlet companies.


...i would imagine if the filter wasn't free flowing enough for the larger setups, the inlet would probably start collapsing...

Last edited by amalgrover; 01-28-2013 at 06:46 AM.
amalgrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 10:29 AM   #125
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Which front mount did you buy?
Perrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I believe pet3r collapsed the Perrin with his previous 1.5XTR setup. I could be wrong on that though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
the early version perrins had issues with collapsing. they changed the design, and it hasn't really been an issue since. this also applies to gimmick and a few other soft inlet companies.


...i would imagine if the filter wasn't free flowing enough for the larger setups, the inlet would probably start collapsing...
My turbo inlet was design specifically for the FP black and the new FP red. It is wired reinforced, I doubt that it will collapse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
I would consider installing the Crawford AOS on your car especially with the boost levels your are running! They work very well and you're in a warmer climate so it will work even better down there!

The newer Perrin inlets and the FP inlets are reinforced very well with wire imbedded in the multi ply silicone hose. I think they would be hard to collapse. I believe the bad rap on the silicone inlets came from cheap knock off versions. My last 2.4" that I used with my VF48 was a Gimmick MS hose and it was very stout also!
I might do that in the future
juanmedina is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.