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Old 01-18-2013, 08:33 AM   #126
lil jon
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Over this douchbag bag kid. He will never get it. Ill laugh when I see him in my turbo pt daily and I smoke his ass. Cause he sure can't beat my Wrx
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #127
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cool story bro....
True story Brah!
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:46 PM   #128
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dont worry about what my numbers are or a video
Certainly sounds familiar...People are trying to help you...based in part to a request that was made for help...the numbers look like BS based on the trap speed, and the fact that the HP and TQ numbers on the actual graph are covered over with black marker is even more suspect.

Trust me, No one is worried about your numbers...least of all me.

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Squidz you are my kindred spirit
I miss you man!! We need another rumble thread to hang out in....

This might be it!

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Originally Posted by silver11wrx View Post
cool story bro....
If you were any more of a Douche you'd be wrapped in blue cellophane.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:49 PM   #129
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is this guy DJ, or maybe a relative of DJ's...because this is like deja vu of a thread almost exactly 1 year ago...
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:38 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
is this guy DJ, or maybe a relative of DJ's...because this is like deja vu of a thread almost exactly 1 year ago...
No, DJs car was actually fast. Same jerkoff attitude though...
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:23 PM   #131
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very true
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:26 PM   #132
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I disagree. It's all the same. Some have more tables to access some have less. Other than that its knowing the engine itself. It's not any different though.
Good luck with that.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:04 PM   #133
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Good luck with that.
Lol, why does EVERY platform act like their platform is SSOOOOOOooo different?! It's hilarious. Whatever makes you feel special man.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
Lol, why does EVERY platform act like their platform is SSOOOOOOooo different?! It's hilarious. Whatever makes you feel special man.
Because they are. Which you admitted. You have to know the specific engines of each platform to tune well.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:34 PM   #135
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Lol, why does EVERY platform act like their platform is SSOOOOOOooo different?! It's hilarious. Whatever makes you feel special man.
It's not knowing the differences (ie some engines like timing, while others do not...etc) between engines/makes that gets tuners/shops in trouble when they think an engine is an engine.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:01 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
Lol, why does EVERY platform act like their platform is SSOOOOOOooo different?! It's hilarious. Whatever makes you feel special man.
I've actually posted about this exact subject in great detail before.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...4&postcount=27

Argue if you wish.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:16 PM   #137
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That's a great post. Doesn't change anything. All it shows is that your trying to find more tables in a Subaru than another platform. Subaru isn't a magical engine computer company light years ahead of everybody else. I have never heard of any ECM being fully understood. There's always ghosts that are unexplained.

It's all the same. there's only so many variables. It's having access to them that can change. And nobody on this site has seen them all.

So don't act like subarus are magic. Every platform acts the same way.

Try to explain that.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:18 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post

It's not knowing the differences (ie some engines like timing, while others do not...etc) between engines/makes that gets tuners/shops in trouble when they think an engine is an engine.
Hence the knowing a particular motor. Even beyond that every motor is different.

The logic is always the same.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:22 PM   #139
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Because they are. Which you admitted. You have to know the specific engines of each platform to tune well.
Ok, so where does that equate to subarus being different? The same tuning principals are identical in outcome. It's the threshold that changes. Subarus "don't like timing." Of course not. They have a turbo usually kept in a more efficient range. If Subaru had strapped a small roots blower to it your story would be different. "They love timing!" Since they'll make more power with timing compared to boost after the efficiency is out of range. I'm not saying they'll take an astronomical number but the strategy would be different. Timing before boost. Instead of boost before timing.

The concepts don't change. Subaru isn't building magic motors breaking down physics. Get over it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #140
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Lol this thread is simply amazing. No dyno numbers, no graph, not even in the proper format yet it has 14 pages worth of bs and bickering. Any other thread in this section with a legitimate dyno session and numbers gets like 500 views and 5-10 posts. Just shows people would rather fight to the bitter end to flex their "e-penis" and seem intelligent than they would have an adult discussion about cars.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:15 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
That's a great post. Doesn't change anything. All it shows is that your trying to find more tables in a Subaru than another platform. Subaru isn't a magical engine computer company light years ahead of everybody else. I have never heard of any ECM being fully understood. There's always ghosts that are unexplained.

It's all the same. there's only so many variables. It's having access to them that can change. And nobody on this site has seen them all.

So don't act like subarus are magic. Every platform acts the same way.

Try to explain that.
Cool, I'm wrong. Open up AccessTUNER Race or EcuFLASH and go to town. It's just a generic ECU, I'm sure you'll have no trouble understanding the logic and applying it to generate the exact calibration and operation you're looking for All manufacturers calculate fueling, ignition timing, boost control, etc. exactly the same, right?
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:27 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by lancelucas View Post

Cool, I'm wrong. Open up AccessTUNER Race or EcuFLASH and go to town. It's just a generic ECU, I'm sure you'll have no trouble understanding the logic and applying it to generate the exact calibration and operation you're looking for All manufacturers calculate fueling, ignition timing, boost control, etc. exactly the same, right?
Oh so how they calculate is different but guess what? When its calculated the end result is the same.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:50 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
The logic is always the same.
Take your 06WRX for example, did you know that below ~3600rpm, if you ask for "x" degrees of ignition you'll get "x"+3, depending on conditions and some tables outside of the ignition advance tables? Or, if you want run, say 10* of advance at high boost, the ecu won't go below 13* (exact value depends on other tables/conditions.

The tables/conditions responsible for the above weren't known when the initial support for the 06WRX came out (Cobb or RomRaider). That made for some strange looking data logs.

Wanting/knowing you need to change the ignition advance doesn't necessarily mean you could, without some more detailed knowledge of the functions of the various compensation tables.

The Subaru engine may not be "magical" but the OEM ecu logic is not straight forward.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #144
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Oh so how they calculate is different but guess what? When its calculated the end result is the same.
The entire point, which is what you're missing, is that you have to understand how it's calculated before you can achieve that correct end result. And since everyone calculates it differently, its inherently impossible for it to be "all the same". How many different people have to say it in how many different ways before you stop to consider there could be more to the story than you are currently aware of? How many Subarus have you tuned? How many ANYTHINGS have you tuned?

Thanks for the example Sonny! Hopefully that helps him understand it a bit better. Even within Subaru there are significant quirks that are not universal across models or years (STI DA Adder Tables and 08+ STI Dual Primary OL Fuel tables also being good examples). Thinking you can just glide to another OEM ECU is a recipe for disaster (or threads like this one).

Last edited by lancelucas; 01-18-2013 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:45 PM   #145
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Nvmmm

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Old 01-19-2013, 12:26 AM   #146
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Lets look back to 8th grade math ay ?

X=-B + or - square root of (B^2-4ac)/2a

A^2+b^2= c^2

Both of these equations do the same thing. One is significantly easier to work with than the other for obvious reasons. There are different rules and potential curveballs that can come when plugging in numbers for both... Although you can get the same result the steps in between will be different. Like tuning. You are severely over generalizing something as complicated as tuning on multiple platforms.
Still not seeing where the end result is any different.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:35 AM   #147
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Its not but the same methods you use on other platforms might not work as expected on a Subaru
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:38 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Airboy View Post

Take your 06WRX for example, did you know that below ~3600rpm, if you ask for "x" degrees of ignition you'll get "x"+3, depending on conditions and some tables outside of the ignition advance tables? Or, if you want run, say 10* of advance at high boost, the ecu won't go below 13* (exact value depends on other tables/conditions.

The tables/conditions responsible for the above weren't known when the initial support for the 06WRX came out (Cobb or RomRaider). That made for some strange looking data logs.

Wanting/knowing you need to change the ignition advance doesn't necessarily mean you could, without some more detailed knowledge of the functions of the various compensation tables.

The Subaru engine may not be "magical" but the OEM ecu logic is not straight forward.
I understand its not straight forward, but the end result is the same. The end strategy is the same.

And as far as the hidden added timing, it's common. It's not unheard of. My last car had a table that wasn't mapped/figured out that added two degrees.

I have yet to see anything that is abnormal.

Maybe I just don't see what's so complicated about anything. It's always been simple to me.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 01-19-2013 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:58 AM   #149
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Lol this thread is simply amazing. No dyno numbers, no graph, not even in the proper format yet it has 14 pages worth of bs and bickering. Any other thread in this section with a legitimate dyno session and numbers gets like 500 views and 5-10 posts. Just shows people would rather fight to the bitter end to flex their "e-penis" and seem intelligent than they would have an adult discussion about cars.
^^This. Mods are lacking on locking down the garbage on here lately. Lets please get back to talking about cars with actual proven numbers.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:06 AM   #150
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Did someone call for me lol. Did someone admit my car was fast? Aw guys I missed u 2
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