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Old 01-21-2013, 09:09 PM   #176
lancelucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeRex View Post
Great!

To correctly run SD, I would agree that post turbo IATs are much better, but I feel like you could get it pretty close with estimating intake IATs. Of course there are other variables that at the same pre-turbo IAT can affect true air charge temp, hence why it is recomended to use post turbo located sensors. That's up to the person's comfort level if they want to leave it pre-turbo and take a chance; or properly relocate it.

Another unspoken issue here is one of poorly placed and/or heat soaked post-turbo IAT sensors.
This part is discussed in the COBB SD guide (I can't say for the other SD offerings).

And yes, it's a reasonable estimate under certain conditions...and its up to everyone to decide how wide the ballpark they will accept is.

My main gripe is that it seems many people don't understand the value of accurate temp modeling. Look at the default charge temp comp for COBB SD - that's based on the idea gas law. Going from 86 to 50 degs F is 7% difference...that's a whole bunch.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:20 PM   #177
amalgrover
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Originally Posted by lancelucas View Post
You're right, it's not a requirement for the software itself, but rather for achieving the best possible on-car results.

Exactly, and like you said, in the end, it is up to the owner of the vehicle and it's tuner to decide what "acceptable" is for them. I will say that with a short ram intake, the compensations are going to be pretty difficult and fuel swings will be pretty HUGE, but with most variations of cold air intakes, they actually should end up fairly stable and accurate when compared to a setup with the sensor post intercooler.

Something to point out here is that one of the absolute worst places to install a SD IAT sensor is post turbo/pre-intercooler. The temps here will vary greatly based not only on ambient temps, but also on boost pressure and turbo efficiency as well. The compensations will be extremely hard to tune accurately if the sensor is placed here.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:30 PM   #178
lancelucas
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I simply can't agree with that as a suitable or permanent solution for a street car, based on my dyno and road testing and observations. Turbo and Intercooler efficiency under disparate conditions simply play too big a role for me to accept using air intake IAT as a compromise.

And sorry, yes, YMMV and to each his own. Cheers
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #179
amalgrover
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I love how I agree with you, and you still find some way to disagree...
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:01 PM   #180
lancelucas
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You're not agreeing with me, you're agreeing that we disagree. Unless you are now of the opinion that an accurate post-IC charge temperature measurement is required for proper tuning of an SD system, then we still don't feel the same way I acknowledge others may not feel the same way. It happens and we'll both live Sorry for being overly combative.

TACOS!!!
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:37 PM   #181
thatsilverwrx
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Tacos are pretty awesome..
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #182
NoGraffix
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I'm confused what the point of going SD is if you're just going to guess what your charge temp will be based on what IAT you have at the intake. At that point what is the real benefit of running SD over a MAF based setup? The only reason I'd go with a SD tune is for more precision throughout my tune based on more accurate charge temps. I've toyed with the idea but on a daily driven car it seems like much more of a pain in the ass then it's worth. If someone can convince me otherwise please do, I enjoy throwing money at my car lol.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:57 AM   #183
Slimsti
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I can't explain to you the tuning aspect or inner workings of how or why sd works cause I honestly have no clue. All I can say is that I ran maf based tuning for 56000 miles and recently switched to sd when I got my fmic installed and I am sooo pissed I didnt do it sooner. The over all driveability and smoothness is just night and day and I would never go back.
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