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Old 11-09-2012, 12:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
Statistics is what it is. This isn't the first time I've seen a study showing that men get into accidents more than women. Just because it doesn't match up with your gut feeling doesn't mean it's wrong. (Unless you are Dick Morris)
The problem is, the "statistics" lacked many key pieces of data. They didn't take into account time driven etc (from what I can tell). If a guy were to drive every day of the week, and a woman only 2 times, the man would have a significantly higher chance of getting a speeding ticket/crashing. If you don't take this into account, the claim "woman are statistically better drivers" has no merit.

Another thing, for people over 65, I'm fairly certain there are FAR more men drivers on the road then women. This might stem from men being stubborn and wanting to still drive themselves. So again, if they don't take this into account the results are pointless.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by hughjass5976 View Post
My girlfriend is the worst of both worlds, aggressive, poor distance judgement and distracted. And she wants me to teach her how to drive stick in my car.
My lady is dangerous as well. She's very athletic/aggressive by nature. When we met, I taught her to drive stick on an E46 M3 (sidenote: probably the worst shifting car in the world, horrid to learn on).

Anyway...on the highways, she's jerky, distracted, angry, and attempts to drive 90 mph all the time. Tailgates, doesn't look ahead, heavy braker, etc.

We sold her Escape and I got her a beater bugeye for her to road rage in. Now she wants a 135.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:43 PM   #28
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Just read another article on it, didn't see any sources for the claimed studies but it points to men driving significantly more than women.


http://recombu.com/cars/articles/new...than-men-again

"While there's no doubting young women are less prone to crashing their cars than young men, and are perhaps less heavy with their right foot (there are exceptions, of course), surveys like these fail to take into account that men, on average, tend to spend longer behind the wheel (60 per cent versus 40 per cent, according to the University of Michigan) so probability inevitably plays its part.

Also, a scientific look at 6.5 million car crashes between 1998 and 2007 found a higher than expected number of accidents happening between two female drivers than between two males. Looks like this argument still has a long way to go yet before it is settled, then."
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
Just read another article on it, didn't see any sources for the claimed studies but it points to men driving significantly more than women.


http://recombu.com/cars/articles/new...than-men-again

"While there's no doubting young women are less prone to crashing their cars than young men, and are perhaps less heavy with their right foot (there are exceptions, of course), surveys like these fail to take into account that men, on average, tend to spend longer behind the wheel (60 per cent versus 40 per cent, according to the University of Michigan) so probability inevitably plays its part.

Also, a scientific look at 6.5 million car crashes between 1998 and 2007 found a higher than expected number of accidents happening between two female drivers than between two males. Looks like this argument still has a long way to go yet before it is settled, then."
Fair enough. They should of course calculate the rate of accident per mile driven. Why they don't do that is beyond me. I'm sure the insurance companies have the average distance driven by each demographic that they use in their risk models. Sometimes I wonder if social science people are just lazy.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:22 PM   #30
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All I have to say is my girl friend is half asian. Although she enjoys driving she still scares the h*ll outta me.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:23 PM   #31
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Better is way subjective. I think women drive slower and more cautiously but that does not make them better. Test them behind the wheel through a given course at various speeds and then we'll see.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:22 PM   #32
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Blah blah blah. Author fails at statistics and semantics.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:01 PM   #33
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Yup, I know a ton of my female friends that brag about ballin' their eyes out to get out of a ticket. If a guy were to start cyring, the cop would probably just write him another ticket.
Half of you are completely ignorant when it comes to women getting out of tickets. It's more like 1 out of 10 times to get out of a ticket. Trying to bend the truth in favor of your argument just means you're butthurt, lmao.

As usual, the insecure men WILL defend their pride because that's all they have going for them.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:06 PM   #34
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Lots of bruised egos in here. My wife is a better driver than I am when viewed from the perspective of other drivers on the road. She's less distracted, takes fewer risks, and is a cooler head. I've improved a ton in the past 10 years, as I'm a lot like Shik now: generally a very relaxed, defensive driver. I can't help but wind out the MINI every once in a while. My wife has no such urges. She's a better driver. I'm a higher skill driver.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:53 AM   #35
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It's really more relaxing to drive this way. No sudden involuntary jump when a cop cruiser appears around the bend. Less aggravation by removing oneself from the game, as it were. Lower levels of road and wind noise through the magic of physics(tm). Better fuel economy, if one cares about such things.

I can dig it.
I'm with ya, brother. I try to stick to this as much as I can. But sometimes if I haven't driven for a while, for some reason it feels like I have to get some frustration out of my system. The road is definitely not a good place to do that but I'm working on it

Also, lots of people trying to defend themselves in here with silly caveats.

I'll tell you one thing. When I see people driving like dicks and speeding their asses off and doing dick moves, definitely mostly men (specifically brotatos, h0 h0 h0).

Last edited by chazly413; 11-10-2012 at 01:59 AM. Reason: sleepy
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:33 AM   #36
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Lots of bruised egos in here. My wife is a better driver than I am when viewed from the perspective of other drivers on the road. She's less distracted, takes fewer risks, and is a cooler head. I've improved a ton in the past 10 years, as I'm a lot like Shik now: generally a very relaxed, defensive driver. I can't help but wind out the MINI every once in a while. My wife has no such urges. She's a better driver. I'm a higher skill driver.
Pretty much. Idiotic survey questions that don't take into account miles/time on the road, training, etc. Nothing about driving skill.

Also, men brag about wrecks and speeding, women lie about it.

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I'll tell you one thing. When I see people driving like dicks and speeding their asses off and doing dick moves, definitely mostly men (specifically brotatos, h0 h0 h0).
Tell that to the old fat bitch that nearly clipped me to pass someone while I was in the left going faster than both of them.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:39 AM   #37
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My lady is dangerous as well. She's very athletic/aggressive by nature. When we met, I taught her to drive stick on an E46 M3 (sidenote: probably the worst shifting car in the world, horrid to learn on).

Anyway...on the highways, she's jerky, distracted, angry, and attempts to drive 90 mph all the time. Tailgates, doesn't look ahead, heavy braker, etc.

We sold her Escape and I got her a beater bugeye for her to road rage in. Now she wants a 135.
This is pure gold, thanks REX8 for making me laugh.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:58 PM   #38
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It's ironic you say that[it doesn't mean much] when also admit you're defending at the same time.
I meant their statistics don't mean much, not that being a better driver doesn't mean much. They're suffering from a case of correlation != causation. I'm an excellent driver. I have boxes full of trophies to prove I am skilled at driving a car. At the same time, back in NY where it didn't matter, I drove 15 over the limit on highways and got 5 tickets/yr. Just because I had tickets didn't take anything away from my skill. My wife had no tickets in that time, but certainly isn't as adept at maneuvering a car, feeling where the limit is, and takes more risk when executing a passing maneuver than I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
Statistics is what it is.
See below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver View Post
The article is mis-titled. The word "better" should be replaced with "safer."
That would have been a more likely conclusion, as that can be backed up by the statistics they used.

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Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
The problem is, the "statistics" lacked many key pieces of data. They didn't take into account time driven etc (from what I can tell).
This is also what I was getting at when I said "doesn't mean much". They left out major key demographics (why? Did it not prove what they wanted to?) and didn't normalize the data for accidents/tickets vs total time spent driving. If you ignore the teenage population, and assume you die at 90, you can drive for a total of 70 years. some of their statistics included only 65+, or only 35% of all drivers (assuming equal distribution among all ages). Their other statistic didn't include 50% of all total drivers.

Seems odd to make such large blanket statements when your data doesn't include huge populations, doesn't normalize the data, and makes conclusions that can't be concluded (ie, better vs safer). That's what I was defending.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
My lady is dangerous as well. She's very athletic/aggressive by nature. When we met, I taught her to drive stick on an E46 M3 (sidenote: probably the worst shifting car in the world, horrid to learn on).

Anyway...on the highways, she's jerky, distracted, angry, and attempts to drive 90 mph all the time. Tailgates, doesn't look ahead, heavy braker, etc.

We sold her Escape and I got her a beater bugeye for her to road rage in. Now she wants a 135.
So what you're saying is that she is a normal female driver.

I've only ever felt fearful in the passenger seat with younger female drivers. For me, it's the excessive tailgating more than anything.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:00 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Einzelherz View Post
So what you're saying is that she is a normal female driver.

I've only ever felt fearful in the passenger seat with younger female drivers. For me, it's the excessive tailgating more than anything.
Somewhat, but certainly more aggressive. She also really enjoys trackdays, and is actually pretty fast, make that quite fast (albeit with the traction control bailing her ass out constantly).

So at least in that regard, she's not exactly a normal female driver. Not too many female drivers I know are trying to do 90 mph whenever they're on the highway.

But as far as being distracted, tailgatin, jerky...yes, she's all-female.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:53 AM   #41
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erroneous survey is erroneous.

We all know women drive less than men, so of course they will be in fewer accidents. after all, they can't be driving if they're in the kitchen cooking.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #42
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erroneous survey is erroneous.

We all know women drive less than men, so of course they will be in fewer accidents. after all, they can't be driving if they're in the kitchen cooking.
I do all the cooking (fine, heating).
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:27 AM   #43
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I find stupid threads like this funny when I can look up the accidents per mile statistics and find the women get in more accidents vs their male counterparts per miles driven and as they get older it only gets worse.

Women get in 5.7 accidents for every 1 million miles while men get in 5.1 accidents for every 1 million miles driven. Some of these articles go into details like fatality rates and typical types of accidents. Men obviously tend to get killed in more accidents while practicing riskier driving habbits. Women get in accidents from being purely bad at driving/focusing on driving, driving under stress behind the wheel along with issues navigating intersections and judging distances/depth perseption. Not to mention the growing demographic of distracted driving accidents which women lead the charge on.

Just type women drivers on youtube. Tell me how many hits do you see and how many of them are low speed idiotic accidents in parking lots and intersections or some girl too busy paying attention to everything else except the road. Now how many of you can pretty much say you see this sort of thing on a daily basis (no the accidents but the habbits) and it normally being a female driver?

What most articles fail to mention is men drive 65-75% more miles than women per year. So basing a study on yearly numbers gives a false conclusion that men are worse drivers. The major difference is men view driving as something to be good at and perfect while women view it as an inconvenience/chore.

Here are two examples.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-discover.html

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199...runc_sys.shtml
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:58 PM   #44
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More, old but comprehensive data: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...cwpSz0A_UhZVFw



Last paragraph has the meat.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #45
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Age 60.. when testosterone levels drop for the average man.. you know.. the hormone that makes you feel young and invincible despite your brain's oppinion to the contrary.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:40 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
I also see (in my area) far more men driving with women as passengers. Thus, more chances for men to be in an accident.

That's a huge flub, the fact that they didn't normalize the accidents vs time spent driving.
Yeah, statistics like this always irritate me. It's similar to defensive driving classes I've taken where they say "You shouldn't feel like you're less likely to get into an accident just because you know the area you're driving in well, most accidents occurr within 25 miles of home." A: No ****, sherlock. A pretty good number of people do ALL their driving within 25 miles of home. B: there's a crap ton of roads within 25 miles of my home that I've never been on and don't know, just because they're close doesn't mean I'm familiar with them. My point is statistics don't lie, but people who interpret often do.

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Originally Posted by Len View Post
That's basically how I drive as well, although traffic simulations seem to suggest that people like us actually slow down the overall traffic flow by making sudden moves, even if we don't explicitly cut people off.

Oh well. I just can't resist a gap in traffic, so there.
If everyone drove correctly like us (drive right, pass left, be aware of your surroundings and be considerate) we wouldn't have to do so many sudden lane changes. It would just be a lane change to the left to pass, and one back to the right when you're done. But because morons enter the highway and immediately swerve to the left lane and go slower than the rest of the traffic, we have to perform significantly more lane changes to maintain the speed that we'd be able to easily maintain if everyone else drove in the correct lane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
Just read another article on it, didn't see any sources for the claimed studies but it points to men driving significantly more than women.


http://recombu.com/cars/articles/new...than-men-again

"While there's no doubting young women are less prone to crashing their cars than young men, and are perhaps less heavy with their right foot (there are exceptions, of course), surveys like these fail to take into account that men, on average, tend to spend longer behind the wheel (60 per cent versus 40 per cent, according to the University of Michigan) so probability inevitably plays its part.

Also, a scientific look at 6.5 million car crashes between 1998 and 2007 found a higher than expected number of accidents happening between two female drivers than between two males. Looks like this argument still has a long way to go yet before it is settled, then."
Awesome. I also wonder how many men get into minor single car accidents that were caused by women (swerve to miss the texting soccer mom, but end up grazing a guard rail, or debris on the shoulder) The men are skilled enough to avoid the women, but can't always completely avoid a collision of some kind. Also, the oblivious women wouldn't count this as their being involved in an accident, despite their being the direct cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrn2Corner View Post
I find stupid threads like this funny when I can look up the accidents per mile statistics and find the women get in more accidents vs their male counterparts per miles driven and as they get older it only gets worse.

Women get in 5.7 accidents for every 1 million miles while men get in 5.1 accidents for every 1 million miles driven. Some of these articles go into details like fatality rates and typical types of accidents. Men obviously tend to get killed in more accidents while practicing riskier driving habbits. Women get in accidents from being purely bad at driving/focusing on driving, driving under stress behind the wheel along with issues navigating intersections and judging distances/depth perseption. Not to mention the growing demographic of distracted driving accidents which women lead the charge on.

Just type women drivers on youtube. Tell me how many hits do you see and how many of them are low speed idiotic accidents in parking lots and intersections or some girl too busy paying attention to everything else except the road. Now how many of you can pretty much say you see this sort of thing on a daily basis (no the accidents but the habbits) and it normally being a female driver?

What most articles fail to mention is men drive 65-75% more miles than women per year. So basing a study on yearly numbers gives a false conclusion that men are worse drivers. The major difference is men view driving as something to be good at and perfect while women view it as an inconvenience/chore.

Here are two examples.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-discover.html

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199...runc_sys.shtml
Thanks for doing the legwork.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #47
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #48
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Half of you are completely ignorant when it comes to women getting out of tickets. It's more like 1 out of 10 times to get out of a ticket. Trying to bend the truth in favor of your argument just means you're butthurt, lmao.

As usual, the insecure men WILL defend their pride because that's all they have going for them.
Its got nothing to do with insecure...you started a thread with data that is questionable....Period.

There are ambiguous constraints in these surveys, and events that are not being considered. You may think that half of us are ignorant concerneing women getting out of tickets but it sure as hell isn't 1 in 10 times that a woman is let off. I personally know police officers that let women off. I have been in cars with women who have been let off and they even brag about it. How many men brag about getting out of speeding tickets?? Not very many...know why...because it doesn't happen as often. I have never been let off of a speeding ticket in my life.

Why are there men in here defending their driving habbits?...because we are men. You make it sound like its a bad thing for us to take offense...the statement "that means nothing" doesn't mean that the idea that men aren't good drivers means nothing, but rather the data that is supplied means nothing because it is unclearly defined.

Society is trying to make it as though it is wrong for men to get fired up about things...and deem it as their insecurity, or some other b.s. Let a man be a man...because thats what we are.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:17 PM   #49
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Its got nothing to do with insecure...you started a thread with data that is questionable....Period.
Calling everyone who disagrees with A W an insecure tiny-penis'd man... That's A W's shtick.


He must be a regular Dirk Diggler.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
accident rate ~ (how good you think you are) / (how good you actually are)
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-37 View Post
The more points you have on your license the better, right?...sorta like the NASIOC point system?
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody06967 View Post
Ha, that implies riding with my wife is like flying. Statistically it's safer than me driving, but it can easily be a terrifying experience.
So glad I stopped in this thread, these quotes made my afternoon more enjoyable.
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