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Old 03-13-2013, 01:12 PM   #1
warpath
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Default BMW says yes to 1 Series M successor, no to M6 Gran Coupe with xDrive

Autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/13/b...-coupe-with-x/



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If you're anything like us, the first half of that headline made you smile. The BMW 1 Series M Coupe was, without a doubt, one of our favorite cars from the past few years, and according to a BMW Blog interview, Dr. Friedrich Nitschke, head of the company's M division, has confirmed that a successor is in the works.

"We haven't made a decision yet, but the 1M coupe was so successful, that in my opinion, I am absolutely sure we will build a successor," Nitschke told BMW Blog. Currently, BMW only offers the M135i version of the new 1 Series hatch in Europe, which Nitschke says is "not a pure M car."

Moving elsewhere in the M range, BMW Blog asked about the M6 Gran Coupe that recently debuted at this year's Detroit Auto Show. The obvious competitors for this car will be higher-power versions of the Porsche Panamera and Audi RS7, but while both of those offer all-wheel drive, the M6 only sends power to its rear wheels.

"We will not bring an all-wheel drive, only a rear-wheel drive," Nitschke said in the interview. The main reason is that adding AWD means additional weight has to be tacked on, and even so, the BMW executives said that the car was developed to have specific handling and steering characteristics common to a rear-wheel-drive car. "I think it's perfect the way it is," Nitschke stated.
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:15 PM   #2
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BMW just needs to do a longer production of the 1M Coupe instead of only bringing ~740 cars into the States like they did.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #3
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BMW just needs to bring a 1 Series with a damn hatch.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
BMW just needs to bring a 1 Series with a damn hatch.
Not before they fix the god awful headlights on the 1er hatch. At least the 2 series coupe seems to be getting a slimmer, more normal headlights.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
Not before they fix the god awful headlights on the 1er hatch. At least the 2 series coupe seems to be getting a slimmer, more normal headlights.
What is wrong with the headlights?

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Old 03-13-2013, 03:15 PM   #6
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^^I'm going to need one of these immediately
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
What is wrong with the headlights?

I hated those headlights as well, but they were at least tolerable to me. But that's the last gen 1er. The current gen looks like this.



I don't know about you, but to me that is one of the dumbest looking car in recent years.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
I hated those headlights as well, but they were at least tolerable to me. But that's the last gen 1er. The current gen looks like this.



I don't know about you, but to me that is one of the dumbest looking car in recent years.
Yeah it really does look like the big-glasses kid of the car world there..
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:16 PM   #9
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I wish we would get this too. A45 AMG





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Old 03-13-2013, 05:31 PM   #10
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^ That, on the other hand... God damn I would rock that bitch.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:27 PM   #11
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I wish we would get this too. A45 AMG
awesome
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #12
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I wish we would get this too. A45 AMG

Not a big fan of the rear, but from the front it looks amazing. Would want.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:47 PM   #13
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I feel like MB is generally less afraid of making their cheaper cars look outright attractive, whereas BMW always tries to make their cars look a bit odd unless you spent $70K on it.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
I hated those headlights as well, but they were at least tolerable to me. But that's the last gen 1er. The current gen looks like this.

I don't know about you, but to me that is one of the dumbest looking car in recent years.
Taillights are unattractive as well. Basically, the front end does not look good and the back end is no better (in comparison, the back end of the A45 looks pretty good).
It's a bit sad as it's one of the best (if not the best) performing hatch out there.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Taillights are unattractive as well. Basically, the front end does not look good and the back end is no better (in comparison, the back end of the A45 looks pretty good).
It's a bit sad as it's one of the best (if not the best) performing hatch out there.
If I may bitch a bit more about the recent direction BMW is taking, while the M135i is supposed to be a hell of a car to drive, I hate that they are starting to put the synthetic engine noise maker everywhere, including the M135i. Some say you can just disable it, but the point is that they are putting in fake noise instead of actually engineering the intake and exhaust to make the engine sing. (And no, it's not like there never was a decent sounding turbo engine, so that's not an excuse either.) Oh well.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
Not before they fix the god awful headlights on the 1er hatch. At least the 2 series coupe seems to be getting a slimmer, more normal headlights.
If this is what the 2-series is going to look like, I'll take one with the N20 engine (240bhp) and a 6-speed. In black.



Downpipe and tune. 270whp. Done.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:33 AM   #17
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Small, RWD manual coupe, with 240HP. I thought, HELL yeah Gold, you got it. THen I started to think more about it.

Small, two doors, expensive, marginal back seat, all do not sound good to me. 240HP does not sound that good either.

YOu could get a 370Z, a G37, Genesis, and of course, you have to throw the Mustang in there. I would even include the BRZ and FRS.

I am not sure who buys this 2 series car. I guess the same people who bought the 1 series. But here is what I think. I think the new iterations of the above mentioned cars will make selling a small 2 door coupe that much harder.

I mean the BRZ is 200 HP, say this car is 230HP. The BRZ is definitely lighter. And loaded it is cheaper than the where the current 1 series starts. The question is is this car THAT much better than the driving experience provided by the BRZ.

I think the BRZ/FRS twins really throw a wrench into the game for small cheap two door cars. I think 1 series sales have probably suffered because of the boxer cars.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:09 AM   #18
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Apples n oranges dude. Different markets. Different power delivery.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:33 AM   #19
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I get it, but some overlap will occur. The market for small 2 door rwd sporty cars with a manual is achingly small. You would have to include all of them. Even of all of them is only 6 cars.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #20
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Small, RWD manual coupe, with 240HP. I thought, HELL yeah Gold, you got it. THen I started to think more about it.

Small, two doors, expensive, marginal back seat, all do not sound good to me. 240HP does not sound that good either.

YOu could get a 370Z, a G37, Genesis, and of course, you have to throw the Mustang in there. I would even include the BRZ and FRS.

I am not sure who buys this 2 series car. I guess the same people who bought the 1 series. But here is what I think. I think the new iterations of the above mentioned cars will make selling a small 2 door coupe that much harder.

I mean the BRZ is 200 HP, say this car is 230HP. The BRZ is definitely lighter. And loaded it is cheaper than the where the current 1 series starts. The question is is this car THAT much better than the driving experience provided by the BRZ.

I think the BRZ/FRS twins really throw a wrench into the game for small cheap two door cars. I think 1 series sales have probably suffered because of the boxer cars.
Decent points, but it is an apples to oranges comparison with the BRZ. The N20 makes 240bhp in the new 3-series so it will make the same in the 2-series. The outgoing 128i weighs 3,200 flat and the 2-series base will weigh the same; 240bhp/3,200lbs is pretty even with 200bhp/2,762lbs, not to mention the 2-series will make power sooner since it's DI/turbo. Add the ease of modding for the BMW (something important for me) and it's a no-brainer. However if the BRZ were factory turbo with the same bhp, it would be a much simpler decision. It's also apples to oranges because the BMW does cost more. Either way, I would pick up a lightly used 2-series since buying one new with the options I want would be out of my range.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:30 PM   #21
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So by your admission the power to weight is about the same, the delivery is different (and more importantly the torque) grant you but that is just the different character of the cars. But nowhere in your arguement did you mention handling? Fun to Drive? Reliability? Cost. All you mentioned was speed. The BRZ is a fantastic alternative to the 2 series. Neither will ever be super fast.

Modding is out the window as the majority of people do not mod cars. Stock for stock, you would be crazy to NOT drive both cars.

I think again, that the BRZ will steal some sales from cars like the 2 series, as there is just NOT that much out there, and any 2 seater comes into focus for comparison sooner.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:45 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
So by your admission the power to weight is about the same, the delivery is different (and more importantly the torque) grant you but that is just the different character of the cars. But nowhere in your arguement did you mention handling? Fun to Drive? Reliability? Cost. All you mentioned was speed. The BRZ is a fantastic alternative to the 2 series. Neither will ever be super fast.

Modding is out the window as the majority of people do not mod cars. Stock for stock, you would be crazy to NOT drive both cars.

I think again, that the BRZ will steal some sales from cars like the 2 series, as there is just NOT that much out there, and any 2 seater comes into focus for comparison sooner.
I don't think there will be as much cross-shopping between the two as you suggest. The 2 series is not a real sports car, it's a small sporty coupe. It will be far more comfortable and quieter to drive than the BRZ, while being less engaging. The interior quality has substantial difference as well. It also comes with a badge that means a lot to many people.

So I don't really think the type of people looking into the 2 series would be drawn to the BRZ all that much. Even if someone was interested in both based on what's on paper, after a test-drive I suspect the preference would become absolutely clear one way or the other. The new MB CLA would be a more natural competitor for the 2 series.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
So by your admission the power to weight is about the same, the delivery is different (and more importantly the torque) grant you but that is just the different character of the cars. But nowhere in your arguement did you mention handling? Fun to Drive? Reliability? Cost. All you mentioned was speed. The BRZ is a fantastic alternative to the 2 series. Neither will ever be super fast.

Modding is out the window as the majority of people do not mod cars. Stock for stock, you would be crazy to NOT drive both cars.

I think again, that the BRZ will steal some sales from cars like the 2 series, as there is just NOT that much out there, and any 2 seater comes into focus for comparison sooner.
Correct, same power:weight but better power delivery in the 2-series. That's important to me. Handling is less important to me because I don't autocross. Fun to drive is subjective, I'd rather have a little more grunt than a little more handling; that's fun to me. Reliability is tough because both are so new, but I haven't seen any significant problems with either car; it doesn't seem like the N20 is plagued by the problems the N54 has, hopefully it stays that way. I did mention cost, which is why I said if the BRZ had a turbo powerplant for modding (again, important to me), then it would be a different story since the BRZ costs less.

My previous car was an S2000 and that's the car I use to compare how I imagine a BRZ would drive and since the BRZ can't touch the S2000 in power:weight, I can already KIND OF imagine what driving the BRZ would be like. Again, I stressed the "important to me" aspect in my argument because I'm saying what's important to me, not everyone in the world.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:53 PM   #24
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Don't get me wrong, I love the 1M. If used prices were reasonable, it woudl seriously be in contention...

However, honestly, the 1M really must be considered the least compelling step-up from regular to M there is in the BMW lineup.

It really is a harder pill to swallow going from a used 135i with the N54 to a used 1M with the exact same engine (w/mild tune). At least from a performance/$ standpoint.

Yes, the fenders are a big deal, and can't really be done easily. The LSD, ok, but there are $1500 options out there now. The entire suspensions are swappable from an M3. And the BMW performance shocks/springs are supposedly almost a match for the OTS M parts.

IMHO:

245s all around, BMW performance suspension (if not konis and springs), an LSD, and a $500 piggyback on a $20-25k 135i will make a very strong case against a used 1M for $20k more.

I'm imagining a similar case for the new versions of the cars (although slightly better now that it's single vs. twin turbo).

C/N: When you put the same engine in the cars, fenders and suspension make the M's a harder sell, IMHO.

The E46 M3 had about 100 more HP than the 330. The same for the E90/92. Moreover, these engines had much more character...high-revving N/A mills. Same engine, with cranked up boost? Not exactly the "M" distinction anymore...



I guess the question is, what value do you put on your car having an M badge on it?
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #25
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Small, RWD manual coupe, with 240HP. I thought, HELL yeah Gold, you got it. THen I started to think more about it.

Small, two doors, expensive, marginal back seat, all do not sound good to me. 240HP does not sound that good either.
Keep in mind, the N20 is dynoing around 230-240 AT THE WHEELS. It's actually close to a 270 HP motor in stock trim. It pulls a 5 series to 60 in sub-5 seconds. 300 easy after some work.

Not that I'm arguing BMW makes a strong case for itself from a value standpoint, at least when buying new. But still, it's a very underrated mill for sure.
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