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Old 11-12-2012, 03:08 PM   #51
Mr Wrex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboedracer View Post
Im making 500 WHP TD01/4 turbo set to 50 PSI and my turner hooked me up with Vtec in my STi and I made it RWD so I can drift ........Am I doing it right? I feel like this thread is not helpful anymore.....
What do dyno number ignorant noobs and td04 turbos tuned at 20psi+? Both blow hot air and don't make as much power as they'd hope. Welcome to nasioc!
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #52
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So can everyone hop off my a$$. Seriously unless you know me and my car don't comment on my power figures. Yes there is work I left out because I hate people commenting saying oh that won't work, that's not real, etc. My car was tuned by me. I do all the work on it. I did all the dyno runs myself. I don't see why there is so much hate on here for my car and a few numbers. Yes 325/327 now hop off y'all.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #53
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And to davenow. Dude HP is calculated using torque in the equation. Dont say increasing compression wont improve horsepower your flat out wrong.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by sc00ter View Post
What kind of magical unicorn dyno were you on?

There is absolutely no way you are putting down anywhere near 325whp on the TD04 at stage 2. I don't care what kind of "custom mapping" you have. Even with e85, 300whp would be questionable.
Yep. No way in hell. I wouldn't believe 300whp either.

It's prolly one if those cars that has "320whp" but runs 13.4 at 99mph.


Edit: looks like I was late to the party! Damn work.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:55 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ThunderousProduction View Post
So can everyone hop off my a$$. Seriously unless you know me and my car don't comment on my power figures. Yes there is work I left out because I hate people commenting saying oh that won't work, that's not real, etc. My car was tuned by me. I do all the work on it. I did all the dyno runs myself. I don't see why there is so much hate on here for my car and a few numbers. Yes 325/327 now hop off y'all.
Trap speeds or GTFO.

Last edited by Badler; 11-12-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:57 PM   #56
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I daily an 03 wrx sedan, my opinion is buy a cobb stage 2 setup, do the maintenance and enjoy it. Like that you will eat just about anything on the road without putting excessive amounts of stress on the vehicle and breaking stuff. A lot of people will agree the 1800$ makes a lot if difference in these little awd cars. And it should come fairly close to 300whp.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ThunderousProduction View Post
Dont say increasing compression wont improve horsepower your flat out wrong.
First off, go read what I said. I am NOT wrong, because I DID NOT SAY IT DIDNT IMPROVE HORSEPOWER.

However, it wont make anywhere near what you are believing it will. Higher compression ups torque FAR more than it does HP, and unless you went BIG on your compression, which would basically necessitate race gas, we are talking about a bump in hp of MAYBE 12-15whp, more realistically 8-10.
And no, more TQ does not always mean more HP. In fact, sometimes its the oppsite.


I am not guessing at this. I have been doing this probably longer than you have been alive, and have had my hands into more subies than you likely ever have or ever will see, so don't for a second think you are educating me. I have built them, I have tuned them, I have raced them, and I have sold the parts for them.


Your calculations are wrong. Period. Your car doesn't make anywhere near what you were told it does, and all the butthurt in the world wont make a fairy tale a reality.


What dyno did you use? What ACTUAL, bolt the car down on it or to it, dyno did you use? I REALLY hope it wasn't just datalogging then plugging numbers into a spreadsheet. Software is ALWAYS wrong. If you weren't on a physical dyno, this discussion is now over, as I will be too busy laughing to reply.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:07 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trea17 View Post
I daily an 03 wrx sedan, my opinion is buy a cobb stage 2 setup, do the maintenance and enjoy it. Like that you will eat just about anything on the road without putting excessive amounts of stress on the vehicle and breaking stuff. A lot of people will agree the 1800$ makes a lot if difference in these little awd cars. And it should come fairly close to 300whp.
Nowhere near 300whp. Stage 2, tuned REALLY well, on an 02-05, stock longblock, will put down ~230whp. Keep in mind, those cars make ~170whp stock. 230whp is a 60whp increase, so thats nothing to sneeze at, and the car will be capable of 13.2s or thereabouts, which is roughly stock STI times with an average driver. Or do you really believe that stage 2 nets you close to 140whp That's some ricer math right there.


Bottom line, 300whp will get you

12.4-12.7 at 107-110mph traps. If you aren't there, you arent making 300whp. (pulling a 12.4 with 300whp will take an AMAZING driver, 12.7 will take an average driver)
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #59
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I come from a background of tuning on Ferraris, very different but it taught me tons on compression and how a properly tuned one can greatly increase power as well as keeping the detonation and temperature down and how that increases the power accordingly. The dyno may have been one which is off on the optimistic side but I've torn about cars and have a good knowledge in these things. I don't think you see me for who I am. I'm not some kid who slaps on 19 turbochargers and wears ken block apparel and I'm not one to show off. I understand mechanics and talk very little. I read, read, read. My car feels like 325 to me as well with a good background on other vehicles all the way up to 1000+ horsepower.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:18 PM   #60
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #61
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You still didn't mention what dyno this was on...
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow

Nowhere near 300whp. Stage 2, tuned REALLY well, on an 02-05, stock longblock, will put down ~230whp. Keep in mind, those cars make ~170whp stock. 230whp is a 60whp increase, so thats nothing to sneeze at, and the car will be capable of 13.2s or thereabouts, which is roughly stock STI times with an average driver. Or do you really believe that stage 2 nets you close to 140whp That's some ricer math right there.

Bottom line, 300whp will get you

12.4-12.7 at 107-110mph traps. If you aren't there, you arent making 300whp. (pulling a 12.4 with 300whp will take an AMAZING driver, 12.7 will take an average driver)
If that's the case I have been sadly misinformed. From the research I have done it all points to the 03 wrx netting just over 200whp. Stage 2 is small I believe roughly 20 but an E-85 conversion is right at 50 whp.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:26 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ThunderousProduction View Post
I come from a background of tuning on Ferraris, very different but it taught me tons on compression and how a properly tuned one can greatly increase power as well as keeping the detonation and temperature down and how that increases the power accordingly. The dyno may have been one which is off on the optimistic side but I've torn about cars and have a good knowledge in these things. I don't think you see me for who I am. I'm not some kid who slaps on 19 turbochargers and wears ken block apparel and I'm not one to show off. I understand mechanics and talk very little. I read, read, read. My car feels like 325 to me as well with a good background on other vehicles all the way up to 1000+ horsepower.
Can you please come 'feel' my car and draw a dyno in crayon based on what your finely tuned ferrari tuned ass tells you?

I'm a huge fan of green crayon, but if you want to rock purp that's all good too. (whatever your precision ass determines is the best color to give me the best numbers)

Follow up questions:

- How does your ass draw the A/F ratio? Is it something you can only measure after having some chili / mexican food then we do some launches?

- When your sliderule of an ass is slathering up my seat getting its precision ferrari measuring going on, do you need to like prop your leg up on the dash to get accurate boost reading, or does like one cheek measure PSi and the other does A/F?

- To get the best results possible, do you roll boxers or briefs? Or do you just wear briefs for drifting dyno runs?

Please draw a detailed diagram of your Ferrariassdyno so we can better understand your scientific method.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:26 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ThunderousProduction View Post
I come from a background of tuning on Ferraris, very different but it taught me tons on compression and how a properly tuned one can greatly increase power as well as keeping the detonation and temperature down and how that increases the power accordingly. The dyno may have been one which is off on the optimistic side but I've torn about cars and have a good knowledge in these things. I don't think you see me for who I am. I'm not some kid who slaps on 19 turbochargers and wears ken block apparel and I'm not one to show off. I understand mechanics and talk very little. I read, read, read. My car feels like 325 to me as well with a good background on other vehicles all the way up to 1000+ horsepower.
None of that changes that you are wrong. Im sorry man Im not trying to be a dick here.

Everything you have done, I don't care what it is, has been done 500 times over before. No one, PERIOD, is making, or has made, 300+whp on the TD04, without BIG boost and race gas, and even then, its pretty damned rare, as in can count on one hand. We are talking over a 10+ year period.


BIG name tuners, with more experience that you and I and the next 10 people behind us, have wrung every bit of HP out of these cars and have been doing it since the 02 model year brought the WRX.

So what exactly, do you think, are the chances that your car, magically, is making in the area of 20% more power, than every car before you.

Its just not happening.


Ok so here is a car I worked.

TD04
23PSI
Meth injection, running 75% meth 25% water. 10gph nozzle, 125psi. (a decently large dose)
TurbXS TMIC (large, very efficient)
cleaned up heads, stock cams
Forged internals, I want to say compression was .2 higher than stock.
pink injectors
walbro pump
crank pulley
AVO inlet, Perrin short ram, custom airbox (beatrush I believe, its been a while)


271whp. On a real actual dyno. One that reads realistically. Stock 04-05 STi put down 225-230 on that dyno, stock 02-05s put down 168-170.

Car ran 12.73 at 104 with an UNBELIEVABLY GREAT driver. It was the third fastest stock turbo bugeye on pump gas on nasioc. I think its down to like 8th now.



Now, go ahead, find the extra 60+whp your car is making.

Last edited by Davenow; 11-12-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by ThunderousProduction View Post
I come from a background of tuning on Ferraris, very different but it taught me tons on compression and how a properly tuned one can greatly increase power as well as keeping the detonation and temperature down and how that increases the power accordingly. The dyno may have been one which is off on the optimistic side but I've torn about cars and have a good knowledge in these things. I don't think you see me for who I am. I'm not some kid who slaps on 19 turbochargers and wears ken block apparel and I'm not one to show off. I understand mechanics and talk very little. I read, read, read. My car feels like 325 to me as well with a good background on other vehicles all the way up to 1000+ horsepower.
Buttdyno, the most accurate brand of dyno.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:30 PM   #66
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guise STAAAHP! I'm tearing so hard at work from laughing at all the nonsense in this thread
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #67
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If that's the case I have been sadly misinformed. From the research I have done it all points to the 03 wrx netting just over 200whp. Stage 2 is small I believe roughly 20 but an E-85 conversion is right at 50 whp.
Pretty misinformed.

Not slamming you, just trying to be realistic and help you guys out so you don't look like dummies when you talk to guys who know their stuff.

AWD cars sap power. BAD. Something in the area of 21% drivetrain loss.

Stock those cars make 227ish at the crank. 21% drivetrain loss puts them at 179whp, which is already a little high.


200whp would be a 10% or LOWER drivetrain loss. There isn't a car on the planet with a drivetrain that efficient, other than maybe direct drive hybrids.

Average dynos typically show in that 165-175 range. Mustang dynos have them as low as 140whp (which is too low really)


Stage 2 should get you in the area of 25-35whp, depending on your car, and how well the tune matches your car. E-85 will pick up another say 15whp, so 40 maybe 45 would be pretty realistic, 50 would probably be doable if you went more aggressive, but it would be tough.
SOME people have seen 40whp gains on a stage 2 setup. Its not common, but it happens sometimes. A GOOD custom tune, done aggressively, can do 40whp on a stage 2 car. But you are pushing it to get there. Its pretty much just by virtue of a lot of boost. 1PSI generally=~10whp (its not a hard rule, but its sort of a loose guideline)

Last edited by Davenow; 11-12-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:36 PM   #68
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And Thunderous, please don't take this as me jumping your isht and being a dick, I really don't mean it that way.

But those numbers are just WAY high man.

I promise you if I put you in my old bugeye (309whp) you would see a very large difference.

For reference 309whp took

2002 wrx


VF22 @21PSI
TurboXS TMIC
Pink injectors
Perrin short ram
BPM up pipe (really nice up)
TurboXS downpipe/turboback, catless

94 octane (yes, 94 octane. It was still available at the time)

Tuned by one of the best tuners in the country.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #69
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Ferrari tuned ass? Damn...I wish mine was tuned by Ferrari, sadly mine was only tuned by Bentley...
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:44 PM   #70
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Also, tuning ferrari's helps you know the ins and outs about what makes a Subie make power and what doesn't, just about as much as tuning lawn mowers helps you know what works and doesn't on a ferarri.

Subaru motors are drastically different in how they react to things, and how they make power.

In general, EFI 101 is EFI 101. But there are SO many little quirks with subie motors, its just too different, and direct firsthand, hands on experience is king.

And sadly, a lot of guys with that experience, choose to be lieing bags of garbage and open tuning shops and lie to customers, perpetuating the idiocy, by lending an air of believability to it. Even though its just a fairy tale made to make people excited about how much power their car made (erm.. were told it made) in order to generate more business.

(I am not saying that above line about thunderous, I am saying that is one of the reasons people get numbers like these and believe them. Because people who they should be able to trust, lie to far too many people)
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:48 PM   #71
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I do require some background clarification.

"My background is in tuning ferarris"
Does this mean YOU, at the controls of the laptop, plugged into the Ferarri ECU, car on the dyno, modifying the tune in the ECU itself, with YOUR own settings that you came up with soley by your own knowledge, based on datalogs from that specific car, not just loading someone elses map? Like YOU YOURSELF, looked at the datalogs, and hand wrote the custom tune settings, on a computer, and loaded your own creation, into the ECU?


If so, I am calling BS without further proof. Sorry man.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:04 PM   #72
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Dave, chill.

Has nobody actually addressed $3000 minus 6 speed = real available moneys?

I think the rat hole that has become this thread has completely driven by the exit.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:49 PM   #73
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There is no way you can buy a wrx for "dirt cheap" meaning something around 5k, put another 3-4k and get a reliable 400awhp car. Even if you have/had a 400hp (even assuming FWHP) civic, you have no traction and don't know how fast that power is in an awd car. The difference between a 400whp civic and 400whp wrx/sti is 1 second off your 1/4 time

Anyways go stage 2, im sure youd be happy with that. If you want reliable 400whp with a 10k budget, go get a mustang and supercharge it. If you want reliable 400awhp, get an evo or sti like what everyone said and then spend 5-10k on top of that

No other engines are like honda where you can screw with them all you want and they still wont blow up. If you mod a subaru engine and don't do it right, itll blow very fast
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:02 PM   #74
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I'm gonna back out of this thread all that it's doing is taking away from any real information being given to the OP. my car may not be 325 my dyno may have been off. From my experience that's what I had known. Davenow thanks for being informational and not becoming heated and relaying actual knowledge unlike a lot of the people being negative.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:05 PM   #75
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lol this is so funny.
Im no expert in subarus... even through i have a 2011 WRX

Anyways.... i havent been messing with my WRX for the past 6 months, but i did notice 1 thing, cars like WRX, STI, EVO. They do a pretty dam good of a job at mantianing their value, even OLD ones.
But if u do happen to find one for CHEAP, i doubt it will last you much longer.
Honestly unless ur a rich a$$ dude that can afford so much money into a fast car.
In this case you are not...

A fast car isnt cheap buddy... when i was still modding my WRX i tried cheap parts, and ended up being $hitty stuff that dont work like it should.
Just drive what u have now and find a different hobby lol
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