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Old 04-22-2016, 08:05 PM   #1
A W
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Default FCA recalls 1.1 million vehicles worldwide due to confusing shifter

Only from FCA. NOT. SURPRISED.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/04/22/f...hifter-recall/

Quote:
Fiat Chrysler is recalling 1.1 million vehicles worldwide to address the problematic shifter used on cars with eight-speed automatic transmissions. The issue is that the console-mounted shifter acts like a rocker switch and always returns to the middle position after moved. This has been deemed confusing to drivers confusing enough to cause some to exit their vehicles without first selecting Park and leading to the car rolling away.

FCA says 41 injuries are related to the shifter problem, and no evidence of equipment failure has been found. The company will enhance warning chimes and alter the shift strategy, meaning alert messages will be displayed in case the driver door is opened while the engine is running. With the door open, the transmission will prevent the car from moving even if Park is not selected.

The affected vehicles are certain model-year 20122014 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 sedans, as well as model-year 20142015 Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs, an estimated 811,586 US vehicles in total. The recall also affects 52,144 vehicles in Canada, 16,805 in Mexico, and 248,667 vehicles elsewhere. The shifter is used with ZF-designed and ZF-built eight-speed automatic; Audi uses a similar shifter setup in some of its vehicles, including the current-generation, which predated Chrysler's use of it.

Chrysler uses a different, a rotating-dial-type shifter on eight-speed-equipped Rams. The company moved away from the problem shifter design in 2015 for the Charger and 300, and the Grand Cherokee's shift lever was modified for 2016.

Owners of affected vehicles will be notified of the recall when service is available. Fiat Chrysler urges customers to follow the instructions in the vehicle's owner's manual in the meantime.
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:19 PM   #2
bakadayo
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It boggles my mind how these poor UX decisions gets into production. The shift-rocker sounds like a bad idea on paper, but you'd think they did focus group testing on it.
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Old 04-23-2016, 06:46 AM   #3
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wait a minute, they have to recall the vehicle because people are forgetting to put it into park?
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Old 04-23-2016, 09:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bakadayo View Post
It boggles my mind how these poor UX decisions gets into production. The shift-rocker sounds like a bad idea on paper, but you'd think they did focus group testing on it.
It's FCA. Sell it first, develop it later.
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:29 AM   #5
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We have a 2014 GC ltd. there is no problem with the shifter. It's different, and takes a week or so to get used to. The problem is because retards.
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Old 04-23-2016, 02:04 PM   #6
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We have a 2014 GC ltd. there is no problem with the shifter. It's different, and takes a week or so to get used to. The problem is because retards.
Eh,

It's a shifter. If it's anything even slightly complicated then you failed as an engineer / designer.
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Old 04-24-2016, 02:41 AM   #7
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People are f**king idiots.
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:50 AM   #8
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american manufacturing, italian engineering...what could possibly go wrong
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:15 AM   #9
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Eh,

It's a shifter. If it's anything even slightly complicated then you failed as an engineer / designer.
Yep, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I just don't see the added value of a shifter in a rocker style. Cleaner look maybe?, but then, function over form, fail as a designer, etc.
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:30 AM   #10
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To be fair, the Prius and a lot of the German joystick selectors took some time to get used to using. Also, many incidents could arise with rental vehicle use where people just aren't familiar with the car in general let alone a unique shifting feature. If it took an owner of a car a week to get used to, what of people who borrow it for a day or two?
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:50 AM   #11
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It seems more like the users are idiots...It may not be the best design...but it doesn't seem entirely bad either. Maybe it should be an optional feature that only comes with tech packages or something. I could certainly see it as a bad choice for temporary transportation like rental or shared vehicles as stated above...but an owner should know how to use this system.

Last edited by Gixhost; 04-24-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:23 PM   #12
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It's going to take some time to get used to it. Just like touch capacitive settings for climate controls and infotainment.

It's not like there's always going to be a need for a shifter 100% of the time with the way things are going. However the fact that the recall is coming from FCA instead of Toyota or German luxury companies says a lot.
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:57 PM   #13
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People are f**king idiots.
Can't be stated any more perfectly.
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Old 04-25-2016, 08:01 AM   #14
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Here's the deal...

You have to remember to put your car in park. Every. Single. Car. Manual, Automatic, dial, shifter, whatever way it is.

It's definitely a stupid people problem.

"Can't remember to put it in park? License please." *snip*

--kC
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Old 04-25-2016, 08:49 AM   #15
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This is hysterical.
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Old 04-25-2016, 09:54 AM   #16
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I can't see it as any worse than the BMW shifters. There is no park of any kind in my car it automatically engages when you shut it off. That's fine if you know that but it's a pain when I want to park it in my inclined driveway with the motor running and need to go into the garage for something. Parking brake alone isn't strong enough to hold the car in place unless I really wrench on it.

It's a space saving feature but you do need to anticipate that the general public isn't very bright and design accordingly.
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:18 AM   #17
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my dad always complains about that shifter in his 2015 JGC
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:35 PM   #18
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The Gene pool could use some chlorine......

Really though it must have some large exposure. There is no way the lawyers would recommend a voluntary for something that is functioning as designed.

It not the Engineers that thought it up. It was the stylists, the Engineers just made it work the way they were told to. FCA has had a lot of problem with that trans. I wonder if this is another bandaid for the TCU?

Peace,

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Old 04-25-2016, 04:00 PM   #19
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The Gene pool could use some chlorine......

Really though it must have some large exposure. There is no way the lawyers would recommend a voluntary for something that is functioning as designed.

It not the Engineers that thought it up. It was the stylists, the Engineers just made it work the way they were told to. FCA has had a lot of problem with that trans. I wonder if this is another bandaid for the TCU?

Peace,

Greg
One of the things muddying up the issue is that FCA has at least 3 different 8-speed trannies at the moment:
- 8HP90 designed and built by ZF with FCA-designed shifter mechanism --> only used in the Hellcat Charger/Challenger --> works fine, very little complaints.
- 8HP70 designed and built by ZF, FCA-designed shifter mechanisms -->all 5.7L/6.4L V8 and 3.0L Diesel FCA vechicles --> very few complaints about the shifter mechanism, a few more complaints about rough or erratic shifting.
- 8HP45 designed and built by ZF, ZF-designed shifter mechanism --> all 3.6L V6 powered FCA vehicles up to some time in 2013 --> complaints about the shifter mechanism and also about shifting quality.
- 845RE designed by ZF but built by FCA as a replacement for 8HP45 (some time in 2013), mix of ZF-designed shifter mechanism (Charger/Challenger) and FCA-design shifter (RAM trucks, Chrysler 300) --> takes the cake for the number of complaints about the shifter itself and shifting quality (described as rough, sometimes erratic, and so on).

Problem was that ZF couldn't build 8HP45 units fast enough to keep up with FCA's demand, so FCA started to build their own 845RE tranny under license; however, FCA modified the original design here and there. I'm told that 8HP45 parts don't work in 845RE trannies and vice-versa.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Here's the deal...

You have to remember to put your car in park. Every. Single. Car. Manual, Automatic, dial, shifter, whatever way it is.

It's definitely a stupid people problem.

"Can't remember to put it in park? License please." *snip*

--kC
Tell me how to put my manual car in Park? I don't see a P anywhere on the shifter

Seriously though, sometimes when I'm driving my wife's CVT Forester I will forget to put it in Park before I shut off the engine. The car won't let me shut it off though then I remember to look down and put it in Park.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
One of the things muddying up the issue is that FCA has at least 3 different 8-speed trannies at the moment:
- 8HP90 designed and built by ZF with FCA-designed shifter mechanism --> only used in the Hellcat Charger/Challenger --> works fine, very little complaints.
- 8HP70 designed and built by ZF, FCA-designed shifter mechanisms -->all 5.7L/6.4L V8 and 3.0L Diesel FCA vechicles --> very few complaints about the shifter mechanism, a few more complaints about rough or erratic shifting.
- 8HP45 designed and built by ZF, ZF-designed shifter mechanism --> all 3.6L V6 powered FCA vehicles up to some time in 2013 --> complaints about the shifter mechanism and also about shifting quality.
- 845RE designed by ZF but built by FCA as a replacement for 8HP45 (some time in 2013), mix of ZF-designed shifter mechanism (Charger/Challenger) and FCA-design shifter (RAM trucks, Chrysler 300) --> takes the cake for the number of complaints about the shifter itself and shifting quality (described as rough, sometimes erratic, and so on).

Problem was that ZF couldn't build 8HP45 units fast enough to keep up with FCA's demand, so FCA started to build their own 845RE tranny under license; however, FCA modified the original design here and there. I'm told that 8HP45 parts don't work in 845RE trannies and vice-versa.
I would not want the job of keeping all the parts numbers pointing to the right things.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:44 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mr.Sparkle View Post
Tell me how to put my manual car in Park? I don't see a P anywhere on the shifter

Seriously though, sometimes when I'm driving my wife's CVT Forester I will forget to put it in Park before I shut off the engine. The car won't let me shut it off though then I remember to look down and put it in Park.
You know what I mean. It has to be put in 1st (level and incline) or reverse (decline). You have to *think*.

--kC
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:41 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sparkle View Post
Seriously though, sometimes when I'm driving my wife's CVT Forester I will forget to put it in Park before I shut off the engine. The car won't let me shut it off though then I remember to look down and put it in Park.
Whoa whoa whoa..... You telling me the car will not turn off when you turn the key to the off position? I am so far out of it. How can that be a safety feature?

Peace,

Greg
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:52 AM   #24
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You know what I mean. It has to be put in 1st (level and incline) or reverse (decline). You have to *think*.

--kC
Well you don't HAVE to put it in gear. I know some people who leave it in neutral and just use the parking brake on level surfaces.

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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Whoa whoa whoa..... You telling me the car will not turn off when you turn the key to the off position? I am so far out of it. How can that be a safety feature?

Peace,

Greg
I was mistaken, you can't remove the key from the ignition unless the car is in Park.
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Old 04-26-2016, 10:08 AM   #25
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I was mistaken, you can't remove the key from the ignition unless the car is in Park.
But if you have remote start, you don't have a key *in* anything but your pocket/purse.

--kC
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