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Old 11-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #76
stretchedk7
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the volatage regulator in trunk supplies varying amounts of voltage to pump based on ecu signal.

Using the relay your just using the voltage controller to turn on/off the relay. the pump gets full battery voltage all the time.

theres a million ways to wire it. could use anything that comes on with ignition as signal wire. the signal doesnt draw much power so not a big deal. the power will be the fat wire from battery.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7
the volatage regulator in trunk supplies varying amounts of voltage to pump based on ecu signal.

Using the relay your just using the voltage controller to turn on/off the relay. the pump gets full battery voltage all the time.

theres a million ways to wire it. could use anything that comes on with ignition as signal wire. the signal doesnt draw much power so not a big deal. the power will be the fat wire from battery.
Bingo.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:47 PM   #78
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oops sorry guys. voltage.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:14 PM   #79
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It's all about amps guys... Voltage stability will help, the big gain is maintaining the amperage the pump is requesting at specific loads.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #80
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Somebody need to teach a basic electrical theory class up in hear
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:01 PM   #81
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I understand the current draw, I was having issues with not understanding if there's a fuel pump controller that may vary when the boost goes up or down. I guess if someone could just explain that the pump see constant supplied voltage all time when the key is turned on then I got it and know how to wire it BUT if it needs the FPC to control the pump then I need more education before I move on.
Sorry for taking up your time guys but I'm trying to make sure I understand this. I have a friend working with me and he threw at me today that he thinks the FPC has to be in line so that the pump can increase or decrease as the boost goes up or down ?

Last edited by dnorton; 11-20-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

I just de-pin a harness, solder and re wire and plug in the the existing connector, the connector itself is blade style so I don't think it really matters.

You could use GASOLINE safe JB weld, will not work with ethanol though.

If you go that route, just drill out a small hole run your wires and seal it, epoxy may work also. Have to check the labels.
When you de pin the harness you completely remove the oem wire from the blade and place new wire in the oem blade?


Per these websites it appears to me that max amps of walboro 255hp is 17 amps so you would need min of 9 gauge on power side and 17 gauge on ground. This is if I understand the charts correctly.

https://www.eol.ucar.edu/rtf/facilit.../Wire_Size.htm

http://www.autoperformanceengineerin...l/fpspecs.html
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:14 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnorton
I understand the current draw I was having issues with not understanding if there's a fuel pump controller that may vary when the boost goes up or down. I guess if someone could just explain that the pump see constant supplied voltage at all time when the key is turned on than I got it and know how to wire it BUT if it needs the FPC to control the pump then I need more education before I move on.
Sorry for taking up your time guys but I'm trying to make sure I understand this. I have a friend working with me and he threw at me today that he thinks the FPC has to be in line so that the pump can increase or decrease as the boost goes up or down ?
You have a fuel pump controller on the car that varies the pump speed per the requested amount from the ecu. It varies from 33% at idle to 100% at high load. You can rewire around this and just have pump at 100%.

The increase in fuel pressure comes from the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. Don't know if you are getting messed up but there is fuel pump voltage regulator and fuel pressure regulator on the car.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:40 PM   #84
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Thank you Sir, That's what I was getting hung up on. I was worried that I had to keep the FPC in play so it can vary from idle to wot but now after your post I understand that I can wire straight to the pump.Thank You,
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:56 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnorton View Post
I understand the current draw, I was having issues with not understanding if there's a fuel pump controller that may vary when the boost goes up or down. I guess if someone could just explain that the pump see constant supplied voltage all time when the key is turned on then I got it and know how to wire it BUT if it needs the FPC to control the pump then I need more education before I move on.
Sorry for taking up your time guys but I'm trying to make sure I understand this. I have a friend working with me and he threw at me today that he thinks the FPC has to be in line so that the pump can increase or decrease as the boost goes up or down ?


NOOOOOO...........wait yes what he said!

you dont need the fpc. and you dont need to change voltage/amps to the pump. you will have to retune once youve rewired it.

instead of the ecu varying power to the pump the tune will now be what makes the car lean or rich and only the tune. fuel pump will be constant

Last edited by stretchedk7; 11-20-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #86
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^^using the fpc to vary pump duty sucks because fpc doesnt get as much voltage/amps as the pump would get with big power feed and relay.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:42 PM   #87
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So now you are throwing another wrench into the upgrade...So if I do this upgrade where I use a relay and run all new supply wires for my (+) and (-) I'll have to have a tune for it ?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:48 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bswilmington View Post
When you de pin the harness you completely remove the oem wire from the blade and place new wire in the oem blade?


Per these websites it appears to me that max amps of walboro 255hp is 17 amps so you would need min of 9 gauge on power side and 17 gauge on ground. This is if I understand the charts correctly.

https://www.eol.ucar.edu/rtf/facilit.../Wire_Size.htm

http://www.autoperformanceengineerin...l/fpspecs.html

here's how I do it:

remove the orange retaining clip on the black connector, you have to be patient and use a pick to remove the blade thingy same goes for the white connector.






I just use a new blade, same size and make the new wire fit. works perfect.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
^^using the fpc to vary pump duty sucks because fpc doesnt get as much voltage/amps as the pump would get with big power feed and relay.
But what if you wired the relay right before the FPC, then replaced the FPC wires with 10 gauge also...

I don't think the FPC itself is the problem so much as the skinny stock wires. However, as someone already mentioned mentioned earlier, you can't just change one of the wires from the FPC, you need to do something about both power and ground. It is an electric circuit, and the resistance of the full loop is what matters. Sure, the FPC itself has some resistance, but I think the majority of the resistance issue is the length of the run combined with 16 or 18 gauge wires.

The stock FPC circuit has a 15amp fuse, so you can be sure you're never pulling more than that on the stock setup... or you'd blow the fuse. At 14 amps, you're dropping around 2 volts through the small stock wires. Since pump current is dependent on the voltage it sees, this takes a double hit to fuel pump flow. Not only does voltage drop, but current drops also. 85% of nominal alternator voltage might mean 75% less flow than nominal alternator voltage.

It really is a big deal to get the wire size in the right range of the current draw, you can pick up a lot of flow. If you only pick up 1 volt by re-wiring, you can still gain 12-15% flow, which is like what? 50-60 HP headroom for one of the regular in-tank pumps?

Last edited by Concillian; 11-20-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:21 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian

But what if you wired the relay right before the FPC, then replaced the FPC wires with 10 gauge also...

I don't think the FPC is the problem so much as the skinny stock wires. However, as someone already mentioned mentioned earlier, you can't just change one of the wires from the FPC, you need to do something about both power and ground. It is an electric circuit, and the resistance of the full loop is what matters.

The stock FPC circuit has a 15amp fuse, so you can be sure you're never pulling more than that on the stock setup... or you'd blow the fuse. At 14 amps, you're dropping around 2 volts through the small stock wires. Since pump current is dependent on the voltage it sees, this takes a double hit to fuel pump flow. Not only does voltage drop, but current drops also. 85% of nominal alternator voltage might mean 75% less flow than nominal alternator voltage.

It really is a big deal to get the wire size in the right range of the current draw, you can pick up a lot of flow.
I believe on the cars with fpc, they are just wiring the pump with power wire straight to pump and toggling it on/off with ignition. Basically wiring it 100% all the time and completely bypassing the fpc. Like in the pre-07 cars.

Also there is relay in front of the fpc, it's the fuel pump relay.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:22 PM   #91
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Ditch the controller, run the signal from the pump wiring to relay, rest of wires to pump/grounds all same size. Install fused power from battery. Done.. Simple..

You will need a re-tune(good tune) as the car will have more pressure everywhere.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:22 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by dnorton View Post
So now you are throwing another wrench into the upgrade...So if I do this upgrade where I use a relay and run all new supply wires for my (+) and (-) I'll have to have a tune for it ?
If you don't need a re-tune, then why would you re-wire the pump in the first place?

Last edited by Concillian; 11-20-2012 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:31 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by bswilmington View Post
I believe on the cars with fpc, they are just wiring the pump with power wire straight to pump and toggling it on/off with ignition. Basically wiring it 100% all the time and completely bypassing the fpc. Like in the pre-07 cars.

Also there is relay in front of the fpc, it's the fuel pump relay.
I'm aware of the stock relay, I was talking about wiring the new 30A relay in before the FPC, then replacing the wires from the FPC to the pump to gain some headroom (but obviously a little less than bypassing the FPC.) This will retain some of the manners of a stock car for a small trade-off in extra wiring and a little extra resistance too. I don't think the FPC is the main resistance in the stock setup compared to the long 16-18 AWG wires.

Obviously bypassing the FPC and running 100% all the time is the way to get the most out of the pump short of running a voltage controller that regulates to a higher voltage. Keeping the FPC is definitely a trade-off, but it shouldn't be too detrimental on an in-tank setup, and should still net a significant bump in flow capability.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:10 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
If you don't need a re-tune, then why would you re-wire the pump in the first place?
I was hoping what I'm doing was getting every thing in place so next time the tuner is back in town and I switch over to e85 he'll be able to tune with the ID1000 and the DW301 fuel pump I have now instead of buying bigger. If this is going to need a re-tune as soon as I do it then I'll wait till I know he's coming back.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:36 AM   #95
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Ditch the controller, run the signal from the pump wiring to relay, rest of wires to pump/grounds all same size. Install fused power from battery. Done.. Simple..

You will need a re-tune(good tune) as the car will have more pressure everywhere.
This guys. Don't make it hard on yourselves.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:38 AM   #96
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Dennis, rewire . Make some logs and your tuner can pull some fuel and get you pretty dang close.

Then when he comes back he can get it perfect. It's not going to make the car not run it's just going to be rich.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:41 AM   #97
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Rewiring the fpc would probably would but honestly that's dumb. Your adding another variable in. That controller is like 400$ to buy when it breaks. The relay is way more reliable as well.

Your not changing much but running the pump wide open.

For example pump life isn't going to change much.
Also, the tune will be just as good once the car is retuned.
And no matter what you do your not going to get out of a retune so no benefit of the fpc.

Doth it buy a big relay off eBay at least 40 amps and rewire at your house. Use fpc to turn on relay and your all in.

You'll gain a bunch of duty cycle (lower dc) and will be as to have safer afr's up top.
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