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Old 11-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #51
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Look further explanation will keep this from going full retard. The STI has a harsher ride than the Golf R. On the occasion that I have to carry both kiddies, which will be often, I want the ride to not jar my new little guys head around.
Contrary to popular belief....kids love both a jarring ride and outrageously loud exhaust.

Both of my kids would fall asleep (only one at a time) in my Cobra when they were babies. The exhaust is literally 12 inches from their head in the car seat.

When they got older.....their favorite car to ride in was my CRX racecar. 1600 pound car with 800 pound/in springs. (not hyperbole....those were the actual numbers).

I do wish you luck with the car. Getting a new car is always fun. The German "built from a single block of iron" feel is certainly an improvement over the "built from a budweiser can" feel of a Subaru.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #52
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I was into VW's big before I bought my 10 wrx, Ill tell you what, I love the way it feels when you drive, but they are super unreliable, I'm sure you have heard this before. Solid on the outside, crappy on the inside= Crappy resale and poor investment.

Hope the Golf R is the start of a new era for them though!! Good luck!
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:27 PM   #53
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Good choice. VW has made strides in reliability over the past few years so I don't think that's going to be nearly the issue some thing.

Ironic but I was faced with the same decision as yourself last month. 2013 STI or 2013 Golf R. The Golf R is the better all around car IMO while the STI felt kind of like a throw back car. Boy racer styling, 1990's styled interior, tin can feel, Japanese garbage paint. I should be taking delivery of my 2013 STI Sport Tech Sedan in a couple of weeks.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:10 PM   #54
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I too have heard that the vws are getting better. If they got any worse, they would have had to just recall the whole car. I manage a small car lot and hate it every time when we get a vw. They always need repairs and they are so expensive for the parts. of the last 3 jettas we had, (02 156k, 04 96k and 06 99k) all three needed master window switches, one needed a window motor ($300!) The 06 needed a timing chain (which is located on the transmission side of the motor (WTF??)) 2 needed headliners, the 06 is on its second RF headlight since we got it.... You get the point.

/rant.

Congrats on the new car. IMO sell it before the warranty runs out (if its not in the shop when that happens). I hope the build quality is really getting better though.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:36 PM   #55
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Thats going to be an awesome ride, probably the only other option I'd have considered after the STI. Congrats!
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:41 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I think the 2013 STI is a great car. But I think for where I am at in my life, it is not the right car for me. It provides the rawness that the golf is missing, but if you look at my signature block, you can see I have a raw car already.

Stay tuned!
STI "raw"? My 2011 STI is a goddamn pussycat compared to my 2007 MS3.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:52 AM   #57
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STI "raw"? My 2011 STI is a goddamn pussycat compared to my 2007 MS3.

My thoughts too.

I drive a Legacy GT now, compared to my MS3. Thing is a luxury cruiser, like I'm in a 7 series or something.

Gen 1 MS3's were harsh cars, but damn are they fast, and they can turn like hell too. Stuff was pretty cheap and you could get some good power out of it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:38 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Jack ffr1846 View Post
What I don't quite understand is why anyone in Houston (or Florida or socal) would ever buy an AWD car. The hit on efficiency, power to the wheels and fuel mileage really makes you pay a premium for something that I always look at as a way to be able to get up my driveway in the winter.
^^^^ This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO
Even front wheel drive cars are skittish and subject to Hydro plane. So there is plenty of reason to own an AWD car down here.
Give me a scientific evidence that AWD is SIGNIFICANTLY helping in hydro plane situations. And even if you gain 0.2% of wet traction because of AWD, does it really make it up for the all drawbacks of AWD? Again, show me evidence, I might be wrong. But there's a general delusional belief that AWD helps traction greatly in every situation. I blame marketing and commercials. I still respect your choice, I've always loved VWs.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:49 AM   #59
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http://www.smartmotorist.com/driving...uaplaning.html
Vehicle drive-train: because of their computer-assisted differentials, all-wheel-drive vehicles are more likely to hydroplane than two wheel drive vehicles in certain situations. A sudden uncontrolled transfer of power from the front tires to the rear tires can put a hydroplaning AWD vehicle out of control.

http://www.tirebuyer.com/education/hydroplaning
two-wheel-drive vehicles are less likely to hydroplane than all-wheel-drive
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:58 AM   #60
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d00000000000000d....i really hope that damned thing dont bite ya in the ass

seriously.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack ffr1846 View Post
What I don't quite understand is why anyone in Houston (or Florida or socal) would ever buy an AWD car. The hit on efficiency, power to the wheels and fuel mileage really makes you pay a premium for something that I always look at as a way to be able to get up my driveway in the winter. But...whatever. Tight hatches are certainly fun. I drove my son's CRX to work today and it's a blast to drive. Good luck with the car. Post a picture when you pick it up.....or maybe pics of the loaner cars.
that is because you are an engineer and you dont THINK...you calculate

there are MANY reasons for awd wherever you live.....and some of us realize that fuel mileage is irrelevant to the issues at hand
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:11 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
that is because you are an engineer and you dont THINK...you calculate

there are MANY reasons for awd wherever you live.....and some of us realize that fuel mileage is irrelevant to the issues at hand
For a daily driver, yah, you're right, I look at what I "need".

Why anyone would own a Porsche or Aston Martin or Lotus........I do understand that too.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:38 AM   #63
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Uncle Scotty, I totally agree. I pray it does not burn me badly. Drove it around last night, and the Golf R magic is already happening. It is a splendid car to drive around quickly. I am thinking I made the right choice.

But just in case, I introduced myself to the service manager last night.
I should have brought him some coffee and a burger though, now that I think about it,

DRAT! missed opportunity! HAHAHA

Seriously, after I drive in, I will write a more comprehensive review. Maybe after lunch today. I need more seat time, but for now, it just seems darn near flawless. But we all know that is not true. A tire may fall off or something today!
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:08 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXLTD

Classic STI envy...



I was never worried, the STI is superior over the WRX, period.
Classic STI dick swinging.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:09 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO
Uncle Scotty, I totally agree. I pray it does not burn me badly. Drove it around last night, and the Golf R magic is already happening. It is a splendid car to drive around quickly. I am thinking I made the right choice.

But just in case, I introduced myself to the service manager last night.
I should have brought him some coffee and a burger though, now that I think about it,

DRAT! missed opportunity! HAHAHA

Seriously, after I drive in, I will write a more comprehensive review. Maybe after lunch today. I need more seat time, but for now, it just seems darn near flawless. But we all know that is not true. A tire may fall off or something today!
We'll forgive your traitorous actions if things go wrong and you come back
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:16 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO
Uncle Scotty, I totally agree. I pray it does not burn me badly. Drove it around last night, and the Golf R magic is already happening. It is a splendid car to drive around quickly. I am thinking I made the right choice.

But just in case, I introduced myself to the service manager last night.
I should have brought him some coffee and a burger though, now that I think about it,

DRAT! missed opportunity! HAHAHA

Seriously, after I drive in, I will write a more comprehensive review. Maybe after lunch today. I need more seat time, but for now, it just seems darn near flawless. But we all know that is not true. A tire may fall off or something today!
It's good to hear you're happy with your choice. Post up pics with your reviews. They're cool cars, but I couldn't get over the reliability concerns. Hopefully this is old news.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #67
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Congrats on the purchase SCRAPPY. I think you made a fine choice.

For as much as SCRAPPY goes through cars, I don't see why people are making a big deal about reliability. The car will no doubt be under warranty during his ownership, so no worries there. In fact, I bet he trades it in when the next gen WRX comes out Until then, enjoy the great ride SCRAPPY!
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #68
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SCRAPPYDO’s 2013 Golf R review
EVO magazine’s review of the 2002 Bugeye Impreza WRX said that they ‘went and let the Impreza WRX grow up and get refined, which is fine, but the problem with that is once you add these refinements, you can never go back again.’ Those words always puzzled me for years after I read that. But the fact is, it is true. Adding refinements to a car while keeping the price somewhat close makes for a far more attractive car and will appeal to far more people.

In a nutshell, this is what I just went through. I was comparing the 2013 WRX STI against the 2013 Golf R. Refinement against Raw performance. A whisper versus a scream. A Rembrandt, vs high end Graffiti. Okay, you get my point. I have had the Golf R for 16 hours so far. I have driven it 80 miles or so, and most of that was pure joy riding. Before I go on, you as a reader should know my nearest comparison. In March of this year, I sold my 2011 WRX which was Stage II COBB, 22mm rear sway bar, upgraded rims and Extreme performance Dunlop summer tires, and new performance brake pads on all four corners with DOT4 fluid. I had the Perrin short throw shifter in my WRX. That was the last Subie I owned. (I test drove a 2013 STI as well)

On to the review. Let me go on to say that refinement comes at a cost. The Golf R is not cheap. But despite its 5000 cars limited run the prices are negotiable, and I managed to get what I thought was a very good deal. What do you get for that much cash. Well lets start with the obvious things first. You get the same drivetrain that is in the Audi TTS. This is not the aluminum block 2.0 liter that is in the newer GTI’s and GLI’s. It is the older iron block that has a reinforced bottom end, rods, pistons, and block. All of this is good. Iron block boosted motors tend to do quite well (4g63). It makes 256 HP and 243 ft lbs of torque. All of this comes on with a buttery ramp up that hits a crescendo at about 2500 – 3000 rpm. If I can compare it to something, I would compare it to my old 2002 bugeye WRX but with FAR more torque. The Golf R throttle is not an on off switch ,more of a linear dimmer switch. Accessing the torque in the car requires you to push the pedal beyond 30% of wide open throttle. (Subies come on with the torque sooner, 2.5 liters vs 2.0 liters probably). It has this characteristic reguardless of RPM or gear. In any gear if you push the pedal down, the torque rushes in seemingly as if the turbo can make the power whenever it wants to, but you have to let it know you want it. It is like having a boost button under the pedal. I find it quite fun. Drive with restraint putting around, and you will be rewarded with instant throttle response and peppy performance. If you want to access all 243 ft lbs of torque at any time, just push the pedal and the wait for ooph is refreshingly nonexistent.

So is the Golf R a performance benchmark. Um, No. Not in a straight line at least. It is quick and my friends who I have given rides say it is damn fast. But let’s be honest, in a straight line the STI would beat it. But it would not be a slaughter. More like a well fought prize fight that is decided on judge’s decision. Is the Golf R fun in a straight line, most definitely. So what is the Golf R performance like when the roads are not lines across the horizon? This is where my eyes are opening to the nature of this car. It is still to early to talk about ultimate limits. (It will take a trip to the track to get that answer) The cars limits are just to high that you cannot safely push them on public roads. The car turns in and goes EXACTLY where you point it. Being on the power during the corner seems to have no effect on its ability to tighten the line around the apex. Again, at some point it will probably wash out to understeer, but that will come at a VERY high (read as unsafe) limit for street driving. The cars attitude in mid corner is extremely planted and neutral. Very little body movement and it feels very BMW like as it seems to rotate about the centerline of the driver. I am loving the handling so far. If I had one gripe, it is the visibility. It is almost too good. There is nothing obstructing your view out of the front and sides of the car. This is great for seeing the road and other cars and scenery, but you literally CANNOT see any indication of a hood at all unless you raise up the seat several notches. You sit very low in a Golf R. Not knowing where the corners are takes some getting use to. I am about there, but still adapting. As far as braking, it is crazy good. They come on as you would expect and they bring the car to a stop with absolute authority. They are reassuring and super easy to modulate. They make the WRX stock brakes seem like little more than dragging your feet on the concrete. If I said they matched the STI- it would be a fair comparison. The Golf R for some reason came with 225/40/18 ALL Season tires, which is just plain silly. No option for a summer tire was available, but I cannot even begin to imagine what the performance envelope will expand to with proper tires.

So dynamically I am very pleased. The fit and finish of the car is just something I am not use to. Aside from our 2007 Outback XT, I have never been another Subaru as good put tighter as this Golf. Is it the end all be all of interiors. Of course not. My comparison is to the WRX and STI. The buttons on the dash are plastic, and guess what they feel like plastic. But they push with a nice feedback. The knobs are solid and turn well. The seats. Well there has never been a seat in any Subaru sold in this country since 1999 with seats nearly as good as the ones in this car. Period. Even my old 2002 WRX seats with the great bolsters are nothing compared to the feel and fit of these seats. I love them. The steering wheel is good. The flat bottom nature of it that so many other reviewers seems to like, to me makes absolutely no difference at all. Somebody else can brag about it. Moving on we get to something I like to call intangibles. The Germans have been building this car for so long that they have figured out how to use the space so efficiently. There are so many nice little touches everywhere in the cabin. Nets, configurable cargo holders, 12 volt and 110 volt outlets, lights where you want them, knobs where you want them. All the surfaces of the car that your hands touch are beautiful and refined and feel addictively tactile. The doors open and close with a great thud. And going up and down driveways the car feels like a block of granite.

The Dynaudio stereo is the best thing I have ever heard in a car. Crisp highs and deep bass you can feel. I am not much of a car stereo guy, but I notice extremely good (VW) or extremely bad systems (Subaru). I love hearing my music on this. Naturally it has all the blue tooth stuff and MDI cable stuff and you can control everything through the steering wheel, blah blah. You guys know how it works, and this is exactly like most other cars. It took 2 mintues from the time I got in the car to have my iphone 4 configured and paired. That was nice.
The US configured Golf R’s do not have homelink, which I overlooked when I bought it. I just figured it would have it. Nope, seems like a silly omission, especially since it is standard on European golf R’s.

Okay now you can obviously see I am happy with this car. What would I change? I would add homelink to the car and maybe I would make the center console storage a bit bigger. But so far that is about it. This car is so much fun to drive and it is so willing to rev it urges you to find a reason to get behind the wheel and go for a spin.

My original question to myself, is can a die hard Subaru guy love a VW? Let’s say I am ‘in like’ with the VW right now, but I can see this could be a long term relationship. The car is just plain great. I do think I could come to love it (pending a rash of mechanical and electrical breakdowns naturally).

So I do believe that EVO had it right. Once you go refined it is hard to go back, nearly impossible actually. I think the Golf R is what the next WRX should be. Subies are slow to add content, and I respect them for it. Reliability comes first, and that is a smart move. But I desired more content than Subaru could offer, and paying big money for a raw car is not a market that is going to grow.

Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 11-20-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:09 AM   #69
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This thread needs pictures

Congrats on the purchase.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:19 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by WRXLTD View Post
Classic STI envy...



I was never worried, the STI is superior over the WRX, period.
Look out guys, we got a badass over here.

This just in, no one envies you, guy. You drive a $40k car, not a Ferrari.


And in regards to the OP, I took a Golf R on a fairly extensive test drive and it was an awesome car. If I had been in the market for one, you bet your ass it would be on my list of cars to seriously consider. It's tight without being uncomfortable, torque comes on strong and makes it feel quicker than the numbers would suggest (at least, that's how it felt to me..). Seats and shifter and steering wheel are all very comfortable. I thought it was a great car and I don't think you'll regret your purchase.

Last edited by DansSpace; 11-20-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:33 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
that is because you are an engineer and you dont THINK...you calculate
This statement makes no sense. How do you calculate without thinking? Do you think there's just a book with magical equations to everything? What's with all the hate towards engineers?

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:47 AM   #72
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:53 AM   #73
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I was thinking of grabbing a blue one as well. Nice buy.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #74
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Back on topic, congrats on the new car! I read your review, and I can see where you're coming from on a lot of points. My girlfriend has an Audi A4, and the interior is just leaps and bounds above the STi's. However, since she already has the luxury car it made me feel better about getting a car all about raw performance.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #75
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Congrats on the purchase! I have only sat in a new golf R and been a passenger (not driven one), but the interior is flawless (to me at least). I guess I am very similar to you in that for a DD, the golf R wins out. You have a track car, so have fun in that. To me, the golf R and STI were not THAT far apart acceleration wise (relatively speaking, the golf isn't a prius), big deal that the STI is a bit quicker, just put your foot down a bit more in the golf. Both are quick enough to get yourself in trouble on the street.

To me, being a young working professional, the golf R seems like a fantastic car for the money.

However, I do drive a modified (keeping the stock exhaust to be quiet though) 2010 Lightning Red hatch so my immature/ boy racer side is still winning out.

Nontheless, sick car! Enjoy!

Last edited by mtarr07; 11-20-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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