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Old 11-19-2012, 03:12 PM   #1
Mojambo
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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2006 STI-USDM
SGM

Default questions about my measuring method and my results for oil clearances

I've assembled the case halves and torqued them down to spec using ARP thread lube. I'm measuring all the crank/rod journals, case journals, bearings etc for clearances before machining the bores.

I had 8 OEM rods to choose from and only 1 rod didn't make the cut. When torquing rod #8 the bolt stretched and didn't hold the trq applied. I used 30w non detergent oil on the fastners prior to torquing.
Should I replace all the rod bolts?
The #1-4 were my original rods that have never been out of the motor. The rods #5-8 were out of a motor that has been dissassembled before(bolts may be too stretched- 1 is for sure


Rod big end I.D. Y(vertical) X(horizontal) out of round
1 2.1649 2.1651 0.0002
2 2.1645 2.1647 0.0002
3 2.1648 2.165 0.0002
4 2.1647 2.165 0.0003
5 2.1657 2.1644 0.0013 out of round!!
6 2.1649 2.165 0.0001
7 2.1649 2.1649 0
8 2.165 2.1651 0.0001

Rod Journals on crank(numbers are from journal 1 to 4, not cylinder #)
1 2.0458
2 2.0457
3 2.0457
4 2.0457


Onto the Crank.

The journals were nice and round. Absolutely no oval journals. No taper either.

Crankshaft journals O.D. Note: no out of round measured
1 2.3613
2 2.3611
3 2.3614
4 2.3612
5 2.3614

With the case assembled and torqued down, I measured the crank bearing surfaces.
I found the out of roundness a bit all over the place, but wonder if the bearings compensate for this a little when installed?

Block journals # Y(vertical) X(horizontal) out of round avg I.D.
1 2.5162 2.5156 0.0006 2.5159
2 2.5161 2.5162 0.0001 2.51615
3 2.5155 2.5157 0.0002 2.5156
4 2.5157 2.5163 0.0006 2.516
5 2.5164 2.5161 0.0003 2.51625


I also measured all the new OEM bearings STD size to ensure consistency. I was measuring them at the end close to the tang/tab. I have a standard flat tip micrometer
*****(I've just realized that I should be using a ball anvil on my micrometer and should be measuring at the center of each bearing shell. I will re-measure all bearings and advise of my findings)

Main bearing thickness Crank journal #
1 0.07846 #1,3
2 0.07847 #1,3
3 0.07846 #1,3
4 0.07846 #1,3
5 0.07845 #5
6 0.07846 #5
7 0.07843 #2,4
8 0.07844 #2,4
9 0.07844 #2,4
10 0.07843 #2,4

Breagings avg thickness #1,3
0.0784625
Breagings avg thickness #2,4
0.078435
Breagings avg thickness #5
0.078455



So, I've then used the above bearing sizes that correspond to the journal # they can be used on to calculate my possible current oil clearances.(note that I have to adjust my OEM bearing measuring method with a Ball anvil and 9-3 o'clock location)

Oil Clearance on crank Mains
#1 0.0024"
#2 0.00188"
#3 0.0014"
#4 0.0020"
#5 0.0022"


Now, I've measured the bearing shells seperate from the case halve bearing surface. Should I install the bearings in the case and see what the ID is with the bearings crush?

I also averaged my measurement for the case have bearing surface ID. Should I only use the 9-3 o'clock(horizontal) measurement? or average it? I figured averaging the measurment would give a more accurate picture. Is using the arp thread lube appropriate for the case halves? I may redo the torquing of the case with oil on the threads too to see if it changes the measurements and any other method that may give a better picture of the case.

any tips or ideas on measureing the block bearing surfaces. basically, is my case still ok to use based on the ID of the bearing surfaces?

Thanks!


Eric
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:08 PM   #2
wantsti
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04 sti
java black pearl

Default

Bump for some experts to chime in. I would also like to here some answers for when I build my motor.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:41 PM   #3
kakarot09
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Location: Northern Nevada
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08 Sti
Wrbm

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If you are attempting to make it "right" with all the measuring then I would suggest a line hone. You have .0009" spread between bearings and a couple that are .0006" out of round. Ideally you'd like those numbers to be .0004 spread or less like .0002" spread is great. And it should be out of round less than .0004 also. Preferably 0- .0002" This needs to be done by a good machine shop to achieve that. They need to take a little off each half to ensure flatness and then torque it the same way you will before line honing. This gives you a better starting point with the bearings. you need to torque the case together with bearings then measure. However if you have to shuffle bearing halves around to get the clearances you want then knowing the thickness can be helpful.

Last edited by kakarot09; 11-21-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:17 AM   #4
Mojambo
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 STI-USDM
SGM

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Thanks for the tips ^^^^

I've remeasured the clearances after installing the new STD OEM bearings into the case halves.

My results are as follows:

Bock#1 journal ID with OEM STD bearing installed.
1 2.3623
2 2.3632
3 2.363
4 2.3634
5 2.3624

Bock#2 journal ID with OEM STD bearing installed.
1 2.3630
2 2.3633
3 2.3632
4 2.3633
5 2.3631


Re-measured crank #1 journals for consistency:
1 2.3614
2 2.3611
3 2.3615
4 2.3612
5 2.3615

Re-measured crank #2 journals for consistency:
1 2.3614
2 2.3611
3 2.3614
4 2.3614
5 2.3615


Block #1 ID with OEM STD bearing installed.Crank#1 journal OD oil clearance
#1--- 2.3623-----------------------------2.3614--------------- 0.0009
#2--- 2.3632-----------------------------2.3611--------------- 0.0021
#3--- 2.363-----------------------------2.3615--------------- 0.0015
#4--- 2.3634-----------------------------2.3612--------------- 0.0022
#5--- 2.3624-----------------------------2.3615--------------- 0.0009

Block #2 ID with OEM STD bearing installed.Crank#2 journal OD oil clearance
#1--- 2.363 -----------------------------2.3614--------------- 0.0016
#2--- 2.3633-----------------------------2.3612--------------- 0.0019
#3--- 2.3632-----------------------------2.3614--------------- 0.0018
#4--- 2.3633-----------------------------2.3614--------------- 0.0019
#5--- 2.3631-----------------------------2.3615--------------- 0.0016

Block #1 ID with OEM STD bearing installed.Crank#2 journal OD oil clearance
#1--- 2.3623-----------------------------2.3614---------------0.0009
#2--- 2.3632-----------------------------2.3612---------------0.0020
#3--- 2.363-----------------------------2.3614---------------0.0016
#4--- 2.3634-----------------------------2.3614---------------0.0020
#5--- 2.3624-----------------------------2.3615---------------0.0009

Block #2 ID with OEM STD bearing installed.Crank#1 journal OD oil clearance
#1---2.363----------------------------- 2.3614---------------- 0.0016
#2--- 2.3633-----------------------------2.3611--------------- 0.0022
#3--- 2.3632-----------------------------2.3615---------------0.0017
#4--- 2.3633-----------------------------2.3612--------------- 0.0021
#5--- 2.3631-----------------------------2.3615--------------- 0.0016

I can mix in +1 shells and get where I need to be with a micro polish

Last edited by Mojambo; 11-27-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:35 PM   #5
bswilmington
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2006 Sti 12.68 @ 108
321WHP 422WTQ dynojet SAE

Default

One suggestion to you is to eliminate the tooling error. I didn't read where you had done this bit if you did sorry for posting.

Mic the crank with you micrometer and put it in vice. Then zero out you bore gauge by puting it inside the mic and finding the min if its electronic. Then use the bore gauge on the bearings. This will take out the possibility that one of you mic's or bore gauge is off.

Basically using this method, I refering to pics at the bottom. http://www.bracketracer.com/engine/mains/mains.htm
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:38 PM   #6
Mojambo
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2006 STI-USDM
SGM

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^^

thanks for the link. I have been doing exactly as you stated. All parts, tools and instruments are kept on the same bench under the same temps in order to keep things as standard as possible.

The only measuring I have not been able to do properly is the main bearing halves. I need the ball anvil to measure them separatly. The latest measurements was with the bearings installed directly into the mains.

Once I get the Ball anvil, I will measure the bearings halves and add them to the main bore ID to calculate what the clearances are this way. I'm hopeful that they are similar. In the end, I feel that measuring the mains with the bearings in place and the case torqued down would be more accurate.

Thanks
Eric
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:30 PM   #7
Mojambo
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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2006 STI-USDM
SGM

Default

Update: I had a major mis calibration of my MITUTOYO digital dial indicator. When using the same 2-3" mic that I've been using for all the crank and journal measurements, I get an off reading. If I were to 0.020 on the MIC, I'd get something like 0.0256. It was way off for the type of measuring I wanted to do.

So I re-measured everything!! I used the needle dial indicator, placed in in the bore of the case bearing, set it to 0, then went to the mic(placed in a small vice) and proceeded to re-zero the dial inidcator by adjusting the mic.

This was time consuming, but I've eliminated as much tooling error as possible now. I'm updating my posts with the real numbers.

I aslo picked up a low mileage block. 6k miles! It was pulled for a suspected rod bearing.

I tore it down and inspected it up and down. Bores were great, crank is perfect. 1 rod is slightly out of round on the big end by 0.0010 when all others are 0.0001 or 0.0002.

I did all the same measurements to both blocks with the dial indicator. I split the cases and put the bearings in the same spots on both blocks and recorded their location.

The second crank is just a little more consistent, but the 2nd block is much more even on the mains.

Crankshaft journals O.D.------Crank 1-----Crank 2
1---------------------------2.3614-----2.3614
2---------------------------2.3611----- 2.3612
3---------------------------2.3615----- 2.3614
4---------------------------2.3612----- 2.3614
5---------------------------2.3615----- 2.3615

Block journals---------------Block #1-----Block #2
1--------------------------- 2.3623-----2.363
2--------------------------- 2.3632-----2.3633
3--------------------------- 2.363 -----2.3632
4--------------------------- 2.3634-----2.3633
5--------------------------- 2.3624-----2.3631
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:44 PM   #8
bswilmington
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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2006 Sti 12.68 @ 108
321WHP 422WTQ dynojet SAE

Default

If you use the method I showed you it doesnt matter what your mic says as you are eliminating it from the equation. Only tooling error you will have is from the actual bore gauge itself. Now this way will take more time as you recalibrate your bore gauge for ever single journal.

Bascially
Measure journal, place outside mic in vice, calibrate bore gauge to micrometer and then measure bearings in block to get bearing clearance.

then move on to journal #2, measure the journal, place in vice and calibrate bore gauge and measure bearings in block to get bearing clearance.

repeat for the remainder of the journal, do same for mains and rods.. takes a bit of time, but the error in the outside mic is eliminated this way.

hopefully that makes sense to you
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:22 AM   #9
Mojambo
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 STI-USDM
SGM

Default

yes it makes total sense. I find with that method, I'd be guessing a bit on my dial gauge as it's accurrate to .0005.

I found that if I zero'd the bore gauge on the ID of the crank bearing, then went back to the mic and adjusted the MIC until the bore gauge showed zero again, I'd get the same result but with a easier to read number. My Mic goes to 0.0001. I did it this way so I didn't have to guess 0.0005 in either direction. I felt it would be more accurate until I can get a dial indicator that reads to 0.0001

I feel comfortable now that I've redone all the measuring. I'm getting good at the torque sequence of the block halves

I'm happy with the 2nd block I just picked up. At $200 it was a steal! It's a 703 casting and it's nice and smooth. My 702 is much rougher.

I'll need to get my 702 casting align honed slightly to bring the mains #1 and #5 closer to 2-3-4.

Thanks for the tips. I'll re-measure the mains again with the above method to see how it feels and what my readings are.

Eric
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