Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday April 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 01:18 PM   #26
Serkan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 180514
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Windsor
Vehicle:
2004 Sti White

Default

With a noise like that first thing is to check the belt tensioner. Have personal experience and sounded exactly the same. And it seemed like it was coming inside the block. Easiest thing to check before you go further with investigation.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Serkan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 01:32 PM   #27
ckyguy68
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 316296
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Metro Detroit
Vehicle:
2006 STIROID
10.5@131 on 29psi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serkan
With a noise like that first thing is to check the belt tensioner. Have personal experience and sounded exactly the same. And it seemed like it was coming inside the block. Easiest thing to check before you go further with investigation.
Agreed. How old is the tensioner?
ckyguy68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #28
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

You guy's notice belt tension fading if you let it sit over night but as soon as you start it tension holds normally. Doesn't seem to make any noise maybe on first start up if any. 46k miles on mines.


It only seems normal honestly for it to fade tension. Then build tension under operating conditions. It seems if it held tension 24/7 it would over load itself causing it to leak past the seal. Before reusing my tensioner I let it sit with the pin in it for a few days didn't seem to show any leakage.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 11-27-2012 at 03:38 PM.
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 05:32 PM   #29
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

I installed a new gates tensioner when I built the motor, so roughly 1900 miles on it. The noise increases perfectly with rpm as well. If this was a valve lash problem wouldn't it slowly get louder over time? Not all the sudden start making noise
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:08 PM   #30
Flat 4 Motorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 295846
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Crook County, Illinois
Vehicle:
WRX FP HTA GT3076R
Sexual Chocolate

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_J View Post
I installed a new gates tensioner when I built the motor, so roughly 1900 miles on it. The noise increases perfectly with rpm as well. If this was a valve lash problem wouldn't it slowly get louder over time? Not all the sudden start making noise

it sounds like tappet noise, I just listened to it again.

do you have the banjo filters still in? maybe pull those and see if you have a clog.

what kind of oil change interval did you do when you broke the motor in? Particulate stuck in one of the screens maybe

what oil are you running?

did you check the oil level?

it sounds like valvetrain noise to me.
Flat 4 Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:37 PM   #31
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post
it sounds like tappet noise, I just listened to it again.

do you have the banjo filters still in? maybe pull those and see if you have a clog.

what kind of oil change interval did you do when you broke the motor in? Particulate stuck in one of the screens maybe

what oil are you running?

did you check the oil level?

it sounds like valvetrain noise to me.

Could be a bad AVCS solenoid also start their check the oil pressure at that solenoid. Worse case you pull the motor again and check valve lash.

Can also take a 7/8 or 22mm with a nice solid breaker bar and wiggle it back and forth on the crank pulley bolt. This may help you decide if it's possibly a rod bearing or wrist pin but honestly it doesn't sound that bad. To me sounds like the bolt's may have snapped that hold your tensor in place check them and report back.

Another thing it could be is to much piston to wall clearance are these pistons skirts coated?
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:52 PM   #32
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

I've been kinda wondering if it could be something avcs related as well. I wonder if there's anything I can watch on my ems to see if that avcs solenoid is operating. Yes the piston skirts are coated, ptw clearance was .003. Also in that video you can hear the normal piston slap from a cold motor. Running valvoline vr1 NONSYNTHETIC 10w30, used brad penn break in oil until 750 miles.
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #33
05_wRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170097
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:
2007 WRX STi PTE6266
OBP

Default

Subbed for solution.

Id also like to know if there's a way to monitor avcs in the aem ems as well. Lol.

Which version do you have? I have the v1.
05_wRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:27 AM   #34
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 05_wRex View Post
Subbed for solution.

Id also like to know if there's a way to monitor avcs in the aem ems as well. Lol.

Which version do you have? I have the v1.


I think it's Cam#1 ADV And Cam#2 ADV I can look at the v2 software also pretty sure it's the same though.
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 08:17 AM   #35
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post

I think it's Cam#1 ADV And Cam#2 ADV I can look at the v2 software also pretty sure it's the same though.
Yeah my v1 has the same parameters
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:54 PM   #36
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Sounds like you didn't do a cam break in.

Did you do a cam break in? Upon initial startup you hold the rpm at 2k for 20 minutes. Failure to do that frequently wipes the tip off a lob and ruins the buckets.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 05:06 PM   #37
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
Sounds like you didn't do a cam break in.

Did you do a cam break in? Upon initial startup you hold the rpm at 2k for 20 minutes. Failure to do that frequently wipes the tip off a lob and ruins the buckets.


Good point Maxwell.


what year sti is your block casting from? original 04 sti?

I seen you have a 2011 sti crank did they change anything with the bearings by then?

I know they changed the rod lengths as I bought a used sti block and found out later not to mention it had mixed case halves that went back to the seller with the quickness.
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 06:55 PM   #38
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

Brand new case halves straight from Subaru. Cams were reused from the previous motor. Only thing new in the heads with this build were +1mm valves and supertech valve guides

Last edited by Kyle_J; 11-28-2012 at 08:09 PM.
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 09:03 PM   #39
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

I'm taking the drivers side valve cover off tmr after work, here's to hoping I find broken **** lol.
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 09:22 PM   #40
Flat 4 Motorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 295846
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Crook County, Illinois
Vehicle:
WRX FP HTA GT3076R
Sexual Chocolate

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_J View Post
I'm taking the drivers side valve cover off tmr after work, here's to hoping I find broken **** lol.

good luck man, here's to hoping its something as easy as swapping a few buckets.
Flat 4 Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 09:40 PM   #41
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_J View Post
I'm taking the drivers side valve cover off tmr after work, here's to hoping I find broken **** lol.
Did I miss the post where you looked at the timing tensioner?
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:26 PM   #42
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Did I miss the post where you looked at the timing tensioner?

Lol who put the guides in I herd they had fitment issues.
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:31 PM   #43
Flat 4 Motorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 295846
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Crook County, Illinois
Vehicle:
WRX FP HTA GT3076R
Sexual Chocolate

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Did I miss the post where you looked at the timing tensioner?

OP said he replaced with new gates tensioner at the beginning of the build.
Flat 4 Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:39 PM   #44
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post

OP said he replaced with new gates tensioner at the beginning of the build.
And it's not the same sound that a bad tensioner would make. Also took a stethoscope and about blew my eardrums out listening from the drivers side valve cover
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #45
Kyle_J
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 292364
Join Date: Aug 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neeebraska
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

I hadn't ever heard of fitment issues with the valve guides, have any info? Local shop installed them, Willard auto machine.
Kyle_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 11:34 PM   #46
Flat 4 Motorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 295846
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Crook County, Illinois
Vehicle:
WRX FP HTA GT3076R
Sexual Chocolate

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_J View Post
I hadn't ever heard of fitment issues with the valve guides, have any info? Local shop installed them, Willard auto machine.

if they cut them properly I cant really see any issue there. not saying its impossible though. if you end up pulling the head, just knock the keepers out and pull the valves and measure the length on the guides. I guess if one was machined improperly it could unseat itself, they're pressed in so they would have had to really screw up.

waiting to see what the valve lash measures out to.

I have a feeling you have a bucket or two way out of spec.

if the sound is increasing with revs, and is coming from the head, it only makes sense that it's tappet noise.

did they replace buckets to set the lash or just tip the valves?
Flat 4 Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 01:24 PM   #47
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post
OP said he replaced with new gates tensioner at the beginning of the build.
Why I'm curious is because of the last case of failed tensioner we had here. Built a motor for the customer, with brand new timing equipment and 2000 miles later (almost on the dot) it started to make a similar noise. It was the tensioner that had de-tensioned.
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 01:26 PM   #48
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_J View Post
And it's not the same sound that a bad tensioner would make. Also took a stethoscope and about blew my eardrums out listening from the drivers side valve cover
Ah - interesting. Keep all of us up to date. I for one am curious as to what it is.
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 03:23 PM   #49
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

Said it before say it again "Stick with the OEM belt tensor's" On any car. I've seen many gates failures in various applications not just Subaru's also many worked great. The tensor isn't made by gates btw. Take it from someone who work's on all makes and models. You will see less failures with OEM part's same goes for throw out bearing's.

If you put a scope on the valve cover. Then you narrowed down your issue all part of the diagnostic procedure my friend. I have my money on AVCS solenoid. BTW the electrical scopes are nice you can lower the volume
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 03:39 PM   #50
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

^+2

tensioner, and oil pump I always go OEM. Learned that from my DSM days
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.