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Old 11-28-2012, 09:17 AM   #1
wgr73
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Default Strange RPM Cut/Rev limit issue (both Cobb AccessPort and OpenSource)

So I'm tuned on Open Source and I'm currently retuning on the Cobb AccessPort. In OS we were able to rev out to 7000 before the car stops revving (seems like a cut/limiter is being hit).

Now fast forward to Cobb Accessport tuning. Same base map, but the car stops revving at 6500rpm Makes no sense. If I have a mechanical problem I can understand not being able to rev past 7000rpm in both OS and Accessport...but what's up with the Accessport not letting me rev past 6500rpm? There's a 500rpm difference, but the base tune is the exact same. I have all of the same limits, dtc turned off, everything matches up with the open source tune.

Tuning

Speed Density
Rev limit set at 7500rpm
Boost limit 32psi
Launch Control turned off
FF Shifting turned off


Mods:
Built SB
Stock heads
Full Race twinscroll kit


Things that are not the issue:

Tune
Crank sensor (cleaned, and gapped to spec) *(Update 12/15/12)
Cam sensors function
Sparkplugs
Fueling
Timing Belt *(Update 12/15/12)
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Last edited by wgr73; 12-17-2012 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Weeknd update 12/15/2012
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #2
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Also I logged and there are no misfires on any cylinders when this happens.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:55 PM   #3
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Because I think this is both a software (Cobb AP) and a hardware problem I'll post this issue in the Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain forums too.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:01 PM   #4
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Throttle map!
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renosubby View Post
Throttle map!
It's good. I checked that.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:32 PM   #6
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renosubby View Post
Throttle map!
The only thing I noticed is the RPM axis on all throttle maps is scaled to 6800rpm. But I don't think that should matter since the logic uses the last rpm cell for anything past 6800.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:19 PM   #7
renosubby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgr73 View Post
The only thing I noticed is the RPM axis on all throttle maps is scaled to 6800rpm. But I don't think that should matter since the logic uses the last rpm cell for anything past 6800.
theres a few requested throttle and Target throttle position.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renosubby View Post
theres a few requested throttle and Target throttle position.
All seem ok, other than the 6800rpm scale.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:01 PM   #9
wgr73
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I don't think the rpm scale on req throttle and throttle pos matters. I'm gonna see if I can swap crank/cam sensors soon
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:42 PM   #10
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Hi there. Sorry for your troubles.

First thing to try would be to open the map in AccessTUNER, verify the tune, and then save that map with a unique name. Transfer the map to the AccessPORT and then make sure you select the "reflash" function when you change maps, rather than real-time. That will eliminate any reflash vs. real-time discrepancy that may be the cause of a fuel cut or throttle cut limiter coming into play. Examples would be if you realtime flashed your "correct" map but did not reflash it and your reflash map did not have the requested torque torque changes necessary to remove the limiter. Or if, for example, the rev limiter in real-time was inadvertently changed. Reflashing will also clear the LC/FFS thresholds in real-time. Even though they may be disabled in your map, the AccessPORT can override the thresholds when adjusting via the Tune - Adjustments menu.

Give that a go and let me know if that works or not.

Bill
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:10 PM   #11
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Thanks for the response Bill! Hopefully we can get this issue resolved! I'm loving the AP so far! Just have to get past this hurdle.

I will double check the map and reflash. I've had to do a few complete reflashes (especially when going back and forth from Open Source to test this issue).

As soon as I get home I'll open the map, verify it, save it under a different name, and then finally reflash that map. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:36 PM   #12
wgr73
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Bill, that solved the 6500rpm issue! It revs to 7000 like OS does!! Thanks a lot. Now I just need to figure out why my car won't rev past 7000rpm even with limits set at 8500rpm.

EDIT: It is again revving back to 6800, no longer 7000. No changes were made to the tune at all.

Last edited by wgr73; 12-03-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:42 AM   #13
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Update: So the longer than I hold the throttled down the more violent it gets!....and afr does go crazy. I logged TPS, APS, Inj pw. Ill look at the log in a bit. Thinking its a fuel cut now

Edit: 12/14/12 - The above was due to misfires on cyl 2. If no misfires are occurring then it doesn't get violent, but I am still getting misfires

Last edited by wgr73; 12-14-2012 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Clarification added (12/14/12)
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:21 PM   #14
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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Ive been fighting the exact same problem for awhile now, but im using OS. About a year ago when I had a 20G on the car, I could rev as high as I wanted to. Once I started doing bigger turbo setups, thats where it started. It just doesnt go past 7000rpms whether im in neutral or in gear. All the DBW settings are exactly the same as when I had the 20G. Its starting to get me pretty stumped.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaguirre View Post
edit: unnecessary comment made

Last edited by wgr73; 12-15-2012 at 03:10 PM. Reason: bad taste
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:59 PM   #17
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee04 View Post
Ive been fighting the exact same problem for awhile now, but im using OS. About a year ago when I had a 20G on the car, I could rev as high as I wanted to. Once I started doing bigger turbo setups, thats where it started. It just doesnt go past 7000rpms whether im in neutral or in gear. All the DBW settings are exactly the same as when I had the 20G. Its starting to get me pretty stumped.
Have you tried going back to a smaller turbo?
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:07 AM   #18
aaguirre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgr73 View Post
Live up to your self-given name subie godfather and tell me what's wrong! I'm stumped
self-giving ha!
You are quite the character your self "Mr. I don't need a cobb AP"
It's a shame you just don't know how to
Ask nicely but that just your style I guess. You where such a nice guy back back when you bought your Subaru, oh well.

Good luck there Winfield

“When one burns one's bridges, what a very nice fire it makes.”
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:43 AM   #19
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaguirre View Post

self-giving ha!
You are quite the character your self "Mr. I don't need a cobb AP"
It's a shame you just don't know how to
Ask nicely but that just your style I guess. You where such a nice guy back back when you bought your Subaru, oh well.

Good luck there Winfield

“When one burns one's bridges, what a very nice fire it makes.”
edit: unnecessary comments made

Last edited by wgr73; 12-15-2012 at 03:10 PM. Reason: bad taste
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:03 AM   #20
banshee04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgr73 View Post
Have you tried going back to a smaller turbo?
I have not. All my stuff is for a rotated setup. My setup wants to make alot more power past 7000rpm's and this is just a stupid hiccup thats in the way.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:09 AM   #21
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee04 View Post
I have not. All my stuff is for a rotated setup. My setup wants to make alot more power past 7000rpm's and this is just a stupid hiccup thats in the way.
Same here. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this soon! When I find out whats going on I'll be sure to post it up here!
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:17 AM   #22
aaguirre
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Funny how you twist things around and come to your own conclusions.

It's not a tuning issue. If you want to hire our services (since you don't need help) you know where to find me.

Hope you fix it soon.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:21 AM   #23
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Thanks
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #24
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Any updates? Anymore ideas?
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Any updates? Anymore ideas?
Going to swap coils, if it follows the cylinders then I'm on to something. If not its probably the heads. Bent valve or other issues.
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