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Old 11-29-2012, 11:53 AM   #1
WhatTurboLag?
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Default Heat shielding/thermal wrap, is there such thing as too much?

So I was thinking is there such thing as too much? I'm thinking like everything covered as best it can from the block to the end of the downpipe with 1+ layers of header wrap, then a thicker insulation/blanket material, then a thermal shield like from advanced thermal products. I'm going to call atp but I'm thinking about having them make me some shields.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:00 PM   #2
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Retorical question?
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
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What's the cars purpose? If this is just a daily driver then in my opinion you are just wasting money on excessive heat insulation that could be better spent else where (possibly not on a car?)
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #4
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Rob it's me -______-


I for some reason talk in rhetorical questions apparently, it was more to spark discussion than anything.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:24 PM   #5
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Hi Joe. Sorry I didn't even look at user name just posted a response. Well like I said I don't think it will hurt anything, but I also don't believe it will really help at all either. If you got some money you need to spend I'm always taking donations
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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I mean you could run 10 heat shields, 4" of wrap, plus turbo blanket and be just fine, or run the typical wrap and shield and be fine.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #7
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Just send it all to Swaintech. You can thank me (and pay me) later.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:56 PM   #8
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None of these responses so far have come close to what I am discussing, basically, is there advantages to just wrapping it with 1 layer (the norm) or going crazy to the point the stuff wouldn't be much hotter than ambient air temp around the car
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:57 PM   #9
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I haven't heard of anyone doing it. Try it and find out...
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:40 PM   #10
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No. Pretty common misconception that heat wrap is used to keep external pipe temperatures down. While the insulation certainly helps with that, it's not its main use.

Heat wrap is used mainly to keep exhaust gases hotter and more dense, thus creating more efficent (faster) flow of the exhaust gases through the piping.

I'd double up layers at most, but anything more than that won't really be helping (or hurting) anything.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:47 PM   #11
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I run the OE heat shield and turbo blanket on my OXT with a coated down pipe.

The down sides I can see for going crazy with wrap is:

1) cost
2) fitment
3) if the wrap gets oil soaked, see #1.

Oil soak? Well, my inner passenger side CV boot ripped on my OXT and sprayed my wrapped DP. So long to that wrap.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:59 PM   #12
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Default dimishing returns

you wont get any noticeable advantage to adding more layers of heat wrap, shield, etc.
There will be less heat under the car in general, but from a performance point of view, exhaust flow will be pretty close to what you would have gained from just 1 layer of thermal insulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
None of these responses so far have come close to what I am discussing, basically, is there advantages to just wrapping it with 1 layer (the norm) or going crazy to the point the stuff wouldn't be much hotter than ambient air temp around the car
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:01 PM   #13
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The manufactures say not to use more than 1 wrap. They don't even want it overlapping too much. So the answer is just wrap according to the instructions.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badler View Post
The manufactures say not to use more than 1 wrap. They don't even want it overlapping too much. So the answer is just wrap according to the instructions.

This...The biggest downside to "overwrapping" with any of these products is the increased likely hood to have cracking on either dp,up,exhaust mani, most likely at a weld, by trapping too much heat within the exhaust. I have also "heard" story's of guys cooking turbos, from excessive wraps/blankets that trap too much heat within the turbo housing essentially cooking the oil inside the turbo..not good! Bear in mind, I believe this applies to those tracking their cars under sustained load for 20-30 min stints at a time.

I have no first hand experience of this happening though. Fwiw, I am running a wrapped dp(single layer according to instructions and not wrapped at the top portion that's cast) and a cobb turbo heat shield everything else has oem heat shielding on factory manifold. I track my car. No issues yet.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:55 PM   #15
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I won't worry about cracking, anything to ever go on my car will be inconel or 321

This is about keeping heat in the pipes, not radiating out
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
.... increased likely hood to have cracking on either dp,up,exhaust mani, most likely at a weld....
Which also has much to do with the material under the thermal control. Then type and quality of any present welds and the overall design w/r/t thermal expansion and cycles.

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Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
I won't worry about cracking, anything to ever go on my car will be inconel or 321
This is about keeping heat in the pipes, not radiating out
Adding more thermal control for maintaining in-pipe gas temp or reducing out-pipe temps will eventually plateau. Every material has its limitations. If it was my car I would use 1)an effective thermal barrier coating and a heat shield or 2)LR thermal wrap and a heat shield. Simple may win out on this one.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #17
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Joe, have you heard about the "jet" in Subaru's rally cars? It's essentially a subsonic ramjet that keeps the turbo at full boost at all times. My buddy and I are considering making one, would you be interested? It would be a full equal length header and up pipe with external wastegate flange and be made out of either inconel or 321.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:17 PM   #18
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Drew, you mean like this? Looked into the rx6 myself since you need a turbo that can take the heat, cheapest I found was 6000 and support for them isn't great.

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ag-teaser.aspx

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...preza-sti.aspx


I would love something like it, but again the ecu alone to control it (though a great ecu) is also a pita to obtain.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvdw View Post
Joe, have you heard about the "jet" in Subaru's rally cars? It's essentially a subsonic ramjet that keeps the turbo at full boost at all times. My buddy and I are considering making one, would you be interested? It would be a full equal length header and up pipe with external wastegate flange and be made out of either inconel or 321.


And it's called a "rocket"...
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:18 PM   #20
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Theoretically they aren't that hard to make, Joe's right, the hard part is controlling it and we're working on that as well. You don't need a specific ECU, just one that does the right things. If Cobb would release anti-lag, it wouldn't be much of a problem...It also helps to have someone that can weld inconel

And sorry, when I think of a rocket, I think solid state, not something similar to a ramjet.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:24 PM   #21
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Stop talking out of your ass. You couldn't even bother to read the article?
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #22
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I have read it. A few times. Desigining something for the first time is incredibly difficult, taking bits from an existing design to make your own is much easier. I love that this guy is/was enough of a genius to think something like this up and it makes it halfway plausible for fabricators to make. I'm not expecting anything amazing.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvdw View Post
I have read it. A few times. Desigining something for the first time is incredibly difficult, taking bits from an existing design to make your own is much easier. I love that this guy is/was enough of a genius to think something like this up and it makes it halfway plausible for fabricators to make. I'm not expecting anything amazing.

But you will still be starting from scratch since all you've seen is his design on the Internet and in magazine articles. How is that going to help you design yours?

If you'd ever glanced at a turbine combustor can you'd instantly know its more complex than just drilling holes in a coffee can and putting fuel to it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:44 AM   #24
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I'm very well aware, the location and angle of clean air is pivotal, as well as the swirling mechanism. You need to get the fuel, air, and exhaust gasses to blend in a very short space at a very high velocity.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobasaurusrex View Post
No. Pretty common misconception that heat wrap is used to keep external pipe temperatures down. While the insulation certainly helps with that, it's not its main use.

Heat wrap is used mainly to keep exhaust gases hotter and more dense, thus creating more efficent (faster) flow of the exhaust gases through the piping.

I'd double up layers at most, but anything more than that won't really be helping (or hurting) anything.

Hotter air is less dense...

D=M/V

When you increase temp you are exciting the atoms causing them to move faster and occupy more space therefore increasing volume.
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