Heat shielding/thermal wrap, is there such thing as too much? - Page 2

Badler · 11-30-2012, 01:10 PM

Drew, let's just be honest and not derail the thread anymore. You and/or your buddy are never building, getting the supporting mods and tuning one of these. Ever.

Ever.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

drewvdw · 11-30-2012, 01:32 PM

I never did say we were for sure. I said we were considering it. You've been an ******* at multiple points with no justification. Even if we didn't, what business is it of yours?

Badler · 11-30-2012, 01:45 PM

Whatever. You're the one that brought it up and asked if a guy was interested in you guys making them one.

Post a build thread.

Leafy · 11-30-2012, 01:58 PM

Post a build thread... and link it here. I have a theory on this. But its not going to be in the time or money budget for the racecar this year.

drewvdw · 11-30-2012, 02:09 PM

That's our problem, time and money. We're short on both as well as me moving to Wyoming in a month.

Badler · 11-30-2012, 02:15 PM

You guys realize that the turbo alone that is capable(that's even relative) of surviving is $10k+ for a used one.

Leafy · 11-30-2012, 02:18 PM

I'm not sure why, it only operates at 600*C (1100*F) and doesnt create massive thrust and impact loads like normal anti-lag. The only way I can see it damaging the turbo is if you dont have a way to prevent compressor surge.

Badler · 11-30-2012, 02:23 PM

I guess I should be more specific, a turbo that can handle anti-lag without having to be constantly rebuilt. Not to mention the location the turbo needs to be in.

FYI: You can just buy them already made: http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/11.html

I'm really done this time. Sorry Turbo for the derail!

Leafy · 11-30-2012, 02:36 PM

But theres a significant difference between normal, bang bang anti-lag and the rocket. One of them creates high pressure shockwaves in the exhaust that beat the heck out of the turbine and the bearings, and significant egts. The rocket, if it works any where near how I think it does, creates a smooth controlled burn at sub sonic speeds and egts lower than my normal operating parameters. The only real difficult thing on the turbo you need is the speed sensor, which requires some tricky machine work on the compressor housing unless you're using an EFR. But the devil is in the details, designing and testing the thermal reactor, and actually manufacturing one that wont fatigue fail and actually functions. Preventing surge, providing fuel for the reactor. And the controls nightmare of everything involved.

drewvdw · 11-30-2012, 02:40 PM

^^^Exactly, that's why I said that theoretically it isn't all that difficult. The practice is the hard part.

hutch959 · 11-30-2012, 09:45 PM

^^^ this is correct

Badler · 11-30-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hutch959

^^^ this is correct

Insightful post chap.

Leafy, I was basically using the turbo as hyperbole. Your last few sentences summed it up perfectly.The idea of building it/tuning it/taking advantage of it is far out of the realm of anybody in this thread. Just the $$$$$ involved to start is crazy enough.

Leafy · 11-30-2012, 10:23 PM

And its outside the need of most of us. I may not even attempt it if I find the transient response of the efr6258 sufficient for my racecar. If not I'll prototype with mild steel, which my rough math says should withstand the thermal enhanced fatigue under an hour of runtime. That would cut development costs significantly, rather than trying multiple combuster geometries out of inconel. I did discover today that OpenFOAM can also model combustion which should help to further cut costs and time. I dont have time to go further in depth, got to go back to working on this nuclear engineering paper.

Badler · 11-30-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafy

And its outside the need of most of us. I may not even attempt it if I find the transient response of the efr6258 sufficient for my racecar. If not I'll prototype with mild steel, which my rough math says should withstand the thermal enhanced fatigue under an hour of runtime. That would cut development costs significantly, rather than trying multiple combuster geometries out of inconel. I did discover today that OpenFOAM can also model combustion which should help to further cut costs and time. I dont have time to go further in depth, got to go back to working on this nuclear engineering paper.

Are you going to get a Pectel to run it? Something else in mind?

11-30-2012, 02:23 PM	#33
Badler Scooby Guru Member#: 133597 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Costa Mesa	I guess I should be more specific, a turbo that can handle anti-lag without having to be constantly rebuilt. Not to mention the location the turbo needs to be in. FYI: You can just buy them already made: http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/11.html I'm really done this time. Sorry Turbo for the derail! Last edited by Badler; 11-30-2012 at 02:31 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11-30-2012, 01:10 PM	#26
Badler Scooby Guru Member#: 133597 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Costa Mesa	Drew, let's just be honest and not derail the thread anymore. You and/or your buddy are never building, getting the supporting mods and tuning one of these. Ever. Ever. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

11-30-2012, 01:32 PM	#27
drewvdw NASIOC Supporter Member#: 255776 Join Date: Aug 2010 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Laramie, WY Vehicle: 2010 LR WRX MPS and PAR powered.	I never did say we were for sure. I said we were considering it. You've been an ******* at multiple points with no justification. Even if we didn't, what business is it of yours?

11-30-2012, 01:45 PM	#28
Badler Scooby Guru Member#: 133597 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Costa Mesa	Whatever. You're the one that brought it up and asked if a guy was interested in you guys making them one. Post a build thread.

11-30-2012, 01:58 PM	#29
Leafy Scooby Newbie Member#: 330625 Join Date: Aug 2012 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: MA Vehicle: 2006 WRX WRB	Post a build thread... and link it here. I have a theory on this. But its not going to be in the time or money budget for the racecar this year.

11-30-2012, 02:09 PM	#30
drewvdw NASIOC Supporter Member#: 255776 Join Date: Aug 2010 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Laramie, WY Vehicle: 2010 LR WRX MPS and PAR powered.	That's our problem, time and money. We're short on both as well as me moving to Wyoming in a month.

11-30-2012, 02:15 PM	#31
Badler Scooby Guru Member#: 133597 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Costa Mesa	You guys realize that the turbo alone that is capable(that's even relative) of surviving is $10k+ for a used one.

11-30-2012, 02:18 PM	#32
Leafy Scooby Newbie Member#: 330625 Join Date: Aug 2012 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: MA Vehicle: 2006 WRX WRB	I'm not sure why, it only operates at 600C (1100F) and doesnt create massive thrust and impact loads like normal anti-lag. The only way I can see it damaging the turbo is if you dont have a way to prevent compressor surge.

11-30-2012, 02:36 PM	#34
Leafy Scooby Newbie Member#: 330625 Join Date: Aug 2012 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: MA Vehicle: 2006 WRX WRB	But theres a significant difference between normal, bang bang anti-lag and the rocket. One of them creates high pressure shockwaves in the exhaust that beat the heck out of the turbine and the bearings, and significant egts. The rocket, if it works any where near how I think it does, creates a smooth controlled burn at sub sonic speeds and egts lower than my normal operating parameters. The only real difficult thing on the turbo you need is the speed sensor, which requires some tricky machine work on the compressor housing unless you're using an EFR. But the devil is in the details, designing and testing the thermal reactor, and actually manufacturing one that wont fatigue fail and actually functions. Preventing surge, providing fuel for the reactor. And the controls nightmare of everything involved.

11-30-2012, 02:40 PM	#35
drewvdw NASIOC Supporter Member#: 255776 Join Date: Aug 2010 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Laramie, WY Vehicle: 2010 LR WRX MPS and PAR powered.	^^^Exactly, that's why I said that theoretically it isn't all that difficult. The practice is the hard part.

11-30-2012, 09:45 PM	#36
hutch959 Scooby Newbie Member#: 267463 Join Date: Dec 2010	^^^ this is correct

11-30-2012, 10:23 PM	#38
Leafy Scooby Newbie Member#: 330625 Join Date: Aug 2012 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: MA Vehicle: 2006 WRX WRB	And its outside the need of most of us. I may not even attempt it if I find the transient response of the efr6258 sufficient for my racecar. If not I'll prototype with mild steel, which my rough math says should withstand the thermal enhanced fatigue under an hour of runtime. That would cut development costs significantly, rather than trying multiple combuster geometries out of inconel. I did discover today that OpenFOAM can also model combustion which should help to further cut costs and time. I dont have time to go further in depth, got to go back to working on this nuclear engineering paper.