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Old 07-11-2012, 07:28 PM   #1
sackytar
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Cool Issues with randomly rich conditions E85

So I have having issues with random rich conditions. It has happened 2 times in the last month.

So both times I was on the freeway cruising and I look down and the AEM AF gauge is pinned at 10.2.

At some point it will go back to stoich but why would this happen?

I checked for leaks with a leak tester. No leaks. Injectors are new! No Cels!

Tuned by Renosubby on here and the tune is great.

Is this indicative of a O2 sensor taking a **** or maybe the wideband?

Mods are:

TGV deletes
turbo back exhaust
Lightweight Fly Wheel
5-O motorsports 1000cc injectors
Boomba fuel rails
255 Walboro FP
Tial 38mm EWG
E85 tune by Cory at Meyhem Tuning
KN CAI
Process West TMIC Kit





Thanks in advance!
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #2
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Anyone?
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:30 PM   #3
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Sounds like a sensor issue, try logging Front o2 sensor and the wideband together and note any differences.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:50 AM   #4
sackytar
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Def will try that at some point. Got two autoxs this weekend but I'll get it in.

What am I looking for?
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:15 AM   #5
quazimoto
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If the factory sensor is reading stoich while the wideband is reading 10:1 then you might have an issue with the wideband
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:48 AM   #6
sackytar
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Nice makes sense. Thanks
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:49 PM   #7
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if your car was actually running 10.2 while cruising the motor would be chugging and the car would be on the verge of stalling.....if it wasnt doing that then i'd highly suspect the gauge is reading wrong....but its simple to verify as others stated above...log the stock sensor and the wideband and compare.
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:58 PM   #8
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You would definitely notice a change in cruising torque if your AFR actually changed that much.

Did you feel anything, or just noticed the gauge?
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:00 PM   #9
sackytar
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Just noticed gauge. Was using cruise control.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:39 PM   #10
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Did it again today after being normal. WTF!
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:26 PM   #11
punchjamesarnol
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Your front factory O2 wideband sensor is bad causing the car to run in open loop. I had the same exact issues a while back. When I would cruise my gauge would read 10 point something, then i'd let off the throttle, sensor would go all the way lean. I'd apply throttle again to cruise and it was a 50/50 toss up, sometimes it would run properly and sometimes would stick way rich. I swapped it out no issues since.

You can check and make sure your AEM uego/ LC-1 gauge is working properly by removing it from the bung and placing it in a rag soaked with lil bit of gas to simulate a rich condition, then remove the rag to simulate a lean condition.

One more thing, if you have a CEL, system running too rich (code ????) then its definately the front factory wideband sensor! GL! post up when you figure it out.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:19 PM   #12
sackytar
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Have a new one on order. When you log AF correction. What do the numbers mean?
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:08 AM   #13
wgr73
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Short answer: The numbers mean it is adding or subtracting fuel.


Long answer: There are different fueling corrections. Long term, short term, and realtime corrections. Those corrections change fueling by adding or subtracting fuel to help car make the ideal afr, stoich = 14.7.


Realtime is exactly that. That number will rarely be 0.00, and if it is it won't stay there for long (milliseconds?) because your fuel is not perfectly consistent, neither is the outside air, or the maf sensor, or the cars O2 sensor, and your constantly making throttle changes, and the list goes on forever. That's why we need this fueling feedback loop. This changes constantly and the car interpolates the data over a given time and makes short term changes, leading too.....

Short term fueling: is the fueling that is taken incremented by the realtime fueling. The interpolated realtime value is rich or lean and the computer in the short term will add/subtract fuel. If the car is still rich/lean then the car says "ok, I'm truly lean at this range, lets make this a long term change, so it stores the long term change, which leads to....

Long term: is what learning view reads (you hit a load range and over that range the car will add or subtract xx% of fuel) This number can change but it's usually not instant unless there is a huge swing in fueling. (i.e. You peg realtime rich which pegs short term rich, which will start to increment long term until you reach the limit defined in the map).


That's what I've got from logging. I'm probably not saying it as clear as one of the pros would but the CL fueling logic in the ECU is pretty complex




EDIT: The sticky in the tuning section will probably say it better than I do
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:14 AM   #14
guroove
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Isn't 10.2 lean for E85?
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:17 AM   #15
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10.2 is rich. The higher the number the leaner the mix
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:20 AM   #16
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I thought stoich for E85 was 9.765

http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:21 AM   #17
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Gotcha. I was talking gasoline stoich. You are correct.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:32 AM   #18
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Ok, now I understand why this is a problem. The 02 sensors don't tell you what the actual A/F ratios are, rather it reads how much remaining fuel is in the exhaust and interprets it to a stoich of 14.7 for gasoline, so 10.2 is still very rich because it's misinterpreting the data for gasoline stoich.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=173979

Sorry, I should have stayed out of a thread that I didn't quite understand.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:28 PM   #19
wgr73
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No biggie dude, we're all here to learn! Most people talk in gasoline stoich here, just fyi. In fact some gauges won't even display the E85 stoich/scaling. (My LC-1 can be configured to tho). It's easier just to leave it in gas mode and have 1 afr target for both fuels
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:10 PM   #20
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Figured out the Injectors were hit up. Changed to Injector dynamics and the world is better once again.

For the time being.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackytar View Post
Figured out the Injectors were hit up. Changed to Injector dynamics and the world is better once again.

For the time being.
Sweet
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