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Old 12-04-2012, 11:11 AM   #1
Type2
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Default Opinions on Borg Warner S200sx-RS-56

I'm looking at rotated v-band turbos, and I saw this one, brand new for $699. Has anyone used this turbo? It's 55lb/min journal bearing, oil cooled only. I'm coming from an APS SR50 56lb/min ball bearing turbo (non-rotated).

I've tried to find v-band GT30r's (3076 .63 A/R) but all I find are 4 bolt. I don't know a lot about rotated turbos yet. I've heard they are cheaper and a bunch out there, but all I hear about are Garrett 30r's and 35r's.

Thanks.

Edit: Found some info. Source:

S200sx-RS-50 - This turbo is the smallest in the S200sx series Borg Warner's Extended Tip compressor wheels that we offer, but don't let its size fool you. The 50mm compressor wheel flows at 44lbs/min and is recommended in the .48 A/R turbine housing. The .48 A/R housing allows this turbo to reach 20psi of boost around 3000rpm and will max out around 28psi and 410whp. This turbo is very well matched to a street car with stock internals. Compressor housing is 3" inlet and 2" outlet, non ported shroud.

S200sx-RS-51 - The next step up is into the 51mm Extended Tip compressor. This turbo is rated at 47lbs/min and will make just shy of 450whp maxed out at 29psi. This turbo can be had in either the .48 or .63 A/R turbine housing, however we highly recommend the .48 for this street terror. Full boost is around 3100rpm. Compressor housing is 3" inlet and 2" outlet, non ported shroud.

S200sx-RS-56 - The 56mm Extended Tip'd S200sx turbo is rated at 55lbs/min and will make around 510whp at 30psi in the .63 A/R turbine housing. Full boost can be seen around 3500rpm in the .63 A/R turbine housing. We don't recommend this turbo to be ordered in the .48 A/R turbine housing as it will have the tendency to surge in its non ported shroud compressor housing. Compressor housing is 3" inlet and 2" outlet, non ported shroud.
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Last edited by Type2; 12-12-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:09 PM   #2
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I just wanted to put some more information out there for people interested in a Borg Warner turbo, especially one super cheap, 55lb/min, and will hit full boost by 3500 rpm

I spoke with Ben K at AGPturbo.com - He was incredibly knowledgeable, polite, and gave me a "warts and all" analysis of this turbo.

1. The "RS" designation means it's something that AGP did themselves for a performance application.

2. Their A/R is similar to Garrett's and is standard through the industry. Basically, a .63 A/R on this turbo is the same as a .63 A/R on a Garrett.

3. Housings: COMPRESSOR: cast aluminum. TURBINE: iron blend (high silicon moly, 65/45/12, they do rust, they do crack, but generally after 5-7 yrs hard use, mainly in tongue area of housing where its hottest but does not affect performance.

4. Where did they source the housings? Foundries mostly in California, Iowa, Michigan, these specifically done in South of LA. None in China.

5. Strongly recommends ceramic coating. Keeps it much cooler and prevents rust. Can touch by hand after short period of time.

6. Feels that BW's journal bearing design is superior to any other journal bearing turbo out there, period.

7. Warranty: If item shipped to me broke, AGP would take care of it no problem. Warranty is 1yr / 12k miles if item is used in the OE application it was designed for, which is for John Deere tractors. These turbos are obviously not being used on John Deere's. Ben says he has been able to push through any blatant manufacturing defects no problem. Admits warranty process is not the best or very quick, can take a couple weeks. Says Borg Warner knows these are going on performance applications so generally honors warranty. Says does not have a lot of warranty issues b/c the turbos are built extremely well.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:08 PM   #3
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I've tried to find v-band GT30r's (3076 .63 A/R) but all I find are 4 bolt. I don't know a lot about rotated turbos yet. I've heard they are cheaper and a bunch out there, but all I hear about are Garrett 30r's and 35r's.
You can get a V-band GT30r you just need to get the tial V-band housing which is about 350$+cost of turbo. Im in a similar boat looking for a V-band turbo around that size. I think I settled on a V-band PTE5858DBB for about $1400 new. Another turbo you should look into is the billet NON ball bearing pte5858. You can get it in V-band and its only 900$. Im going this route so if I wanna upgrade in the future I can do 6262, ect.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:23 AM   #4
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2. Their A/R is similar to Garrett's and is standard through the industry. Basically, a .63 A/R on this turbo is the same as a .63 A/R on a Garrett.

This is false. BW's A/R's run big. Their .63 is actually bigger than Garretts .82. So if your going to get this turbo, I highly suggest you get the 63. I just installed the RS-56 on my 2.5L built STi. It spools super fast for sure. I came from a AMR t60r which is actually pushes more lbs/min but does not come close to making the same HP and spool time. This BW turbo is absolutely awesome and I would recomend it to anyone looking to build a serious street car. I will getting tuned saturday to see some final numbers. I got everything I needed for the install from AGP also, very nice people over there. Great prices also, I will never go back to a garrett. This feels like my olds 30r on steroids. Simply amazing and I'm not even tuned yet.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:23 PM   #5
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AGP puts a new turbine housing on, those A/R's are close to garrett.
the stock BW Housings run HUGE A/R..
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackeymx View Post
This is false. BW's A/R's run big. Their .63 is actually bigger than Garretts .82. So if your going to get this turbo, I highly suggest you get the 63. I just installed the RS-56 on my 2.5L built STi. It spools super fast for sure. I came from a AMR t60r which is actually pushes more lbs/min but does not come close to making the same HP and spool time. This BW turbo is absolutely awesome and I would recomend it to anyone looking to build a serious street car. I will getting tuned saturday to see some final numbers. I got everything I needed for the install from AGP also, very nice people over there. Great prices also, I will never go back to a garrett. This feels like my olds 30r on steroids. Simply amazing and I'm not even tuned yet.
You are incorrect, but not completely incorrect. You are correct in the sense that genuine BW's A/R's run big. You are incorrect because these are not true BW's. Only the rotating cartridge is BW. The rest is all AGP.

EDIT: BTW, PLEASE post up your dyno sheet w/ supporting power mods! I'm super excited to see how much power you put down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z0rr0 View Post
AGP puts a new turbine housing on, those A/R's are close to garrett.
the stock BW Housings run HUGE A/R..
↑↑↑ THIS
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #7
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You can get a V-band GT30r you just need to get the tial V-band housing which is about 350$+cost of turbo. Im in a similar boat looking for a V-band turbo around that size. I think I settled on a V-band PTE5858DBB for about $1400 new. Another turbo you should look into is the billet NON ball bearing pte5858. You can get it in V-band and its only 900$. Im going this route so if I wanna upgrade in the future I can do 6262, ect.
Keep in mind this turbo is $699 and comes with a v-band housing, and will compete quite nicely with a gt30r. Oh, and it's only oil cooled, so you can do away with that silly reservoir sitting on top of your manifold cluttering things up. Did I mentions it's only $699?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:01 AM   #8
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I'm looking at a s200 but in t4 twin scroll, don't need more than 400whp @20psi on pump. Want good spool and power to redline.

Might get a bullseye batmowheel billet compressor wheel.


I don't get how/why these journal bearing turbos spool so fast compared to a Bb turbo of the same size. How's transient response compared to a bb turbo of the same size?
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Type2 View Post
Keep in mind this turbo is $699 and comes with a v-band housing, and will compete quite nicely with a gt30r. Oh, and it's only oil cooled, so you can do away with that silly reservoir sitting on top of your manifold cluttering things up. Did I mentions it's only $699?
It comes with a V-band outlet but the inlet is not... It's a t3 or t4

The PTE can have a V-band inlet and outlet for why cheaper then Garret.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:35 AM   #10
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It comes with a V-band outlet but the inlet is not... It's a t3 or t4

The PTE can have a V-band inlet and outlet for why cheaper then Garret.
V-band everything would be nice. Which PTE are you speaking of? Please be specific. What price point?
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:40 AM   #11
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same one I talked about earlier


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
You can get a V-band GT30r you just need to get the tial V-band housing which is about 350$+cost of turbo. Im in a similar boat looking for a V-band turbo around that size. I think I settled on a V-band PTE5858DBB for about $1400 new. Another turbo you should look into is the billet NON ball bearing pte5858. You can get it in V-band and its only 900$. Im going this route so if I wanna upgrade in the future I can do 6262, ect.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:52 AM   #12
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Got it. I already ordered the BW but I'm curious how that turbo works out for you. My budget is tight so $699 was my sweet spot. When my engine is back in and tuned I'll update on my thoughts.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:41 AM   #13
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Im on a tight budget too but after alot of thought the turbo is not something Im going cheap out on. I was pretty much set on the non bb version but I know later down the road Ill be pissed I didnt spend the couple hundred more for BB.

My results will be alittle skewed since it will be fog light mounted but I will post them when finished
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:22 AM   #14
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I don't necessarily think I cheaped out on the turbo. I think it all comes down to what a person wants to accomplish with their build. People who upgrade stock turbos to a 16g instead of a 20g can be seen to have cheaped out, or those who opt for the Kinugawa instead of a Blouch. I was initially going for a gt30r but I went with the BW instead because it is supposed to spool quicker and put down more power despite being a journal bearing turbo (and half the price w/ v-band). I ran an older stock location dual ball bearing 56lb/min turbo for a year and I don't think it's spool characteristics are that impressive. Technology has improved a lot recently. It's pretty exciting. I guess time will tell. BTW I appreciate your insight.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Z0rr0 View Post
AGP puts a new turbine housing on, those A/R's are close to garrett.
the stock BW Housings run HUGE A/R..
cmon travis!!!
even the agp .63 housing for the s200 dwarfs a garret 35r .82 housing
on a manual trans i was seeing full spool around 4500 with 256 with bc cams and ported heads.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:42 PM   #16
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really? I thought the AGP housings were closer to their Garrett counterparts.
i know the Borg housings are stupid huge for their A/R..
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Z0rr0 View Post
really? I thought the AGP housings were closer to their Garrett counterparts.
i know the Borg housings are stupid huge for their A/R..
nope
my .63 agp housing was bigger than a garret 35r 82 housing
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:10 PM   #18
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cmon travis!!!
even the agp .63 housing for the s200 dwarfs a garret 35r .82 housing
on a manual trans i was seeing full spool around 4500 with 256 with bc cams and ported heads.
I know you already know this, but it bears repeating... if you run big cams and ported heads your power curve is gonna shift right by quite a bit depending on how much porting and how big cams. Add larger valves and shift more... Did you measure the housing? What you say goes directly against my conversation with Ben K at AGP. I personally spoke with him and he was very specific... Exactly what turbo were you running? The S200 is NOT the same turbo. These have different housing. I'd really like to know because either Ben K at AGP is full of s**t or your information is suspect. No offense implied! I REALLY want to know. I just received shipment of my turbo...

Thanks
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:02 PM   #19
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Any dyno or first hand experience with this turbo yet?
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:18 PM   #20
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I feel its going to be a 400whp turbo @28psi with what I've seen on the srt forums. They are getting 320-350hp with 20-23psi.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:58 AM   #21
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Supposedly 475 @ 20 psi on pump gas on a built 2.5. I'm assuming 93 octane. All I can get is 91 or E85 and I don't want to run E85. I'll be happy with 350 @ 20 psi. I am running a tmic so that won't help but my spool and throttle response should be nasty
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:25 PM   #22
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Well, I'm trying to figure out, go with this or a 6266 with a .63 A/R or 0.82 A/R. It's only $200 more...Then again I want 400-500 awhp.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Type2 View Post
Supposedly 475 @ 20 psi on pump gas on a built 2.5. I'm assuming 93 octane. All I can get is 91 or E85 and I don't want to run E85. I'll be happy with 350 @ 20 psi. I am running a tmic so that won't help but my spool and throttle response should be nasty
It was actually 470whp uncorrected at 21 psi.......I just looked at NW2TONE's post after the dyno tune on his Forester. Also it was pump gas 92oct available here in WA state. No Meth, no nothing, just straight pump gas. Full Boost was ~4400rpm.

You'll definately get at least 400whp. I'm only running 14psi (wastegate pressure) on mine bolted to a 2.1 stroker, and it feels just as fast as my Dom3 at 19psi with meth making 409whp. I say "feel" because I haven't even tuned it. Just made some small adjustments on the road after getting the car together right before winter. This turbo makes some power, and Full Race rates it at 58lb/min. I would like to see if I could crack 500whp with lots of boost and meth on my future built 2.5L....I think it's possible especially after seeing 470 on 21psi. I also drove that car and it pulled really hard. Not bad for a $700 turbo!

Last edited by morrocco88; 01-12-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrocco88 View Post
It was actually 470whp uncorrected at 21 psi.......I just looked at NW2TONE's post after the dyno tune on his Forester. Also it was pump gas 92oct available here in WA state. No Meth, no nothing, just straight pump gas. Full Boost was ~4400rpm.

You'll definately get at least 400whp. I'm only running 14psi (wastegate pressure) on mine bolted to a 2.1 stroker, and it feels just as fast as my Dom3 at 19psi with meth making 409whp. I say "feel" because I haven't even tuned it. Just made some small adjustments on the road after getting the car together right before winter. This turbo makes some power, and Full Race rates it at 58lb/min. I would like to see if I could crack 500whp with lots of boost and meth on my future built 2.5L....I think it's possible especially after seeing 470 on 21psi. I also drove that car and it pulled really hard. Not bad for a $700 turbo!
Do you have a link or scan to his dyno? I thought he was running a BW s256? Looks like he's selling his Forester...
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:11 AM   #25
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Do you have a link or scan to his dyno? I thought he was running a BW s256? Looks like he's selling his Forester...
In for the link aswell!

Also, how much better would this be comparing it to an ATP GT3076R stock location? That turbo takes a while to spool up (4500rpm) then it tapers of. If this turbo hits full boost at 3500-4000rpm and can hold the power I'm all in.

Would you guys say it's more comparable to a garret GT30 or GT35 (both regular turbos not stock location).

Also, I read somewhere that an AGP .63 ar is more like a Garret .82 ar.

Last edited by OC_Nooby; 01-13-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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