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Old 12-08-2012, 07:15 PM   #76
EmanLives
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you guys are idiots
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:41 PM   #77
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I am still wondering how the dealer killed the engine when it was a OE part that failed. Also looks like OP doesn't like the answers he has been getting.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:44 PM   #78
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Apparently we're the idiots. You know the guys with actual real life experience. lol
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:46 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
As for the oil analysis, why would that not be a good idea? Any bits of metal such as copper would be a HUGE flag that something saw a moment outside of its ideal operating range
Yes, but it doesn't prove WHEN that moment occurred. As I stated, it would only be valid if an oil analysis just prior to his service showed zero issues, and now something showed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by db97 View Post
When I picked up the car on Thurs, the service guy said we put new oil in it, a new filter, and it "drives great!" - I was so pissed off by that statement...upon driving the car home, I immediately felt the clutch was heavier?? The engine felt like it was laboring to accelerate?? And worst of all, when nearing 70mph, the car began to shake violently...I felt a very pronounced vibration/shaking in the steering wheel???
Clutch heavy? Engine laboring? Shaking in the steering wheel? I'm surprised you don't have problems with your radio presets and dome light. Those are directly linked to engine lubrication as well.

I see the problem now.

You're nuts.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:56 PM   #80
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the vibration in the steering wheel is a damned wheel weight you fool.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:57 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Apparently we're the idiots. You know the guys with actual real life experience. lol
The usual situation on nasioc. Knowledgeable people give advice, and then get called idiots by guys who I wouldn't trust to tighten the screw on my coffee maker.

Anyone who requires a shop to change their oil, shouldn't be giving us crap for telling them what a problem is or isn't.

Last edited by LIQUIDSK8S; 12-08-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:51 PM   #82
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So does this mean every customer I get that has a vibration in the steering wheel should be recommended an engine? Sweet!
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:10 PM   #83
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Just from the dramatization of the events described by the op I can tell what kind of car owner he is. Smoke, loud bang,engine running rough,etc. My experience with working on cars has taught me that loud bangs from an engine do not go away simply by an oil change. So if the information is correct there is two different things that could have happened. 1.)the engine ran out of oil and was driven to the point it spun a rod bearing (that would explain loud bang and running rough) If this were true a simple oil change would not have fixed it. The op would have picked up the car and it would have continued to run rough and sound like a diesel truck,possibly a lil worse than that. Unless the dealer did a super awesome fast shortblock overhaul and told him all they did was an oil change to cover their arses (not really possible but hey)
2.) the engine ran on no oil due to an oil filter seal breaking(improper installation or bad seal), the check engine light turned on with osv codes and possibly flashed a couple times from misfires. Op got scared about the possibility of engine damage so he decides to dramatize/exaggerate the story to get online forum members to flame the dealer to the point they give him an engine or face the wrath of the all mighty NASIOC. IB Yes I'm missing a few periods here and there. Holy wall o text batman.

I'm guessing #2
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:15 PM   #84
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Once you spin a bearing there is no going back. It doesn't get better...only louder.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #85
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Once you spin a bearing there is no going back. It doesn't get better...only louder.
Exactly my point
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:35 PM   #86
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I am a republican who WORKS for a living...pays his mortgage, bills, taxes, raises his kids, etc. What I am entitled to is that when I pay for a service (oil change), it does not result in a major engine malfunction. As a business, my dealership, and SOA should own up to whatever mistake was made, be it faulty service, or a defective part, and fix this to the customer's satisfaction...not their bottomline.

I will cease further comment(s) on this situation until I speak with the Field Rep Tuesday. I can see there are two groups of posters on this thread...those who believe i'm overreacting, and those who think I have valid concerns. All I will say is that if this happened to you, how would you react? I would imagine most would feel as I do...and not make inane suggestions or remarks like some of the folks on this forum.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:56 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
The usual situation on nasioc. Knowledgeable people give advice, and then get called idiots by guys who I wouldn't trust to tighten the screw on my coffee maker.

Anyone who requires a shop to change their oil, shouldn't be giving us crap for telling them what a problem is or isn't.
For the techs on this thread...thanks for your advice (regardless of whether or not I agree). As I mentioned before...I am trying to glean whatever helpful information I can...I use to do all the car maintenance on my Subies...but once I found a decently high paying job, got married, had 2 kids, became a 60 hour a week workaholic...that free time to do maintenance on my vehicle disappeared. I now pay folks to do this maintenance for me b/c a) I can afford to, and b) I simply don't have the time anymore. And yes, I know how to change oil...open the filler cap, jack up the car, put the oil drain pan underneath, loosen the drain plug, allow the oil to drain, go watch some UofL football/basketball, come back and loosen the oil filter...make sure you hold it upright when removed so the oil doesn't spill everywhere, wipe down the area, and check for any residual debris (i.e. gaskets or seals that may have come loose from the previous filter), take the new oil filter, wipe a decent amount of oil around the seal to get it all nice and lubed, retighten while making sure you haven't cross threaded anything, once seated, turn it 3/4 turn by hand or a oil filter wrench, wipe any residue...check again to see if it is properly seated/tightened...wipe the drain plug area clean, retighten the plug, tighten it to the proper torque settings...lower the car, find some nice Mobil 1 syn oil 5w30, fill that baby up to I believe it's about 4.6 qts or so?? Check the dipstick 2 or 3 times...then start her up...check under the car to see if there are any leaks...and then go for a test spin...when you get back check the dipstick again to see if any additional oil is needed...so yeah, i've changed oil before...changed spark plugs, done the tranny fluid drain and fill (via the old how to's from the previous website...whatever nasioc use to be called...i forget the name...but yeah i did that to...) ...anyway, what i'm saying is i may not be a certified subie tech, but i have done general maintenance on my car, and previous '02 WRX...I simply don't do it anymore b/c i don't have the time...and i can pay someone i thought was competent enough to do it. Before folks start judging others for being irrational, or have clouded judgement b/c they are angry (and yeah, i'm still angry)...i would caution them to step back and put themselves in that person's shoes.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:06 AM   #88
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and i only call supraru an idiot b/c he reminds me of my know-it-all GM engineer brother...who knows everything, and says people are stupid b/c they don't listen to him or do what he says. supraru, you would like him...actually you probably wouldn't b/c he says buy american, not jap crap...sighhhhh.

Last edited by db97; 12-09-2012 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:09 AM   #89
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Supraru...I have nothing else to say to you b/c you are an idiot. If someone did this to your car, I'm SURE you would just take it and go about your merry way...before you tell other's what they should be doing...why don't you put yourself in their situation...!@#$

Yeah, my car's engine didn't DIE...but I know it ain't freakin the same anymore?! I know it doesn't drive like before?! "It still pulls fine..."??? ARE YOU AN IDIOT??!! SERIOUSLY!

...my car's value will never be the same b/c of this incident...period. I didn't spend 28k dollars for my car to have something like this ruin its value.

sweetie...you need to sell the car

do it tomorrow

do not wait


there is no way your life will ever be the same again if you keep the car....so sell it
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:45 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
sweetie...you need to sell the car

do it tomorrow

do not wait


there is no way your life will ever be the same again if you keep the car....so sell it
Honey...only if life was that simple...sighhhh.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:14 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Knotsure View Post
I commented to this thread because I thought the OP was looking for input/suggestions/previous experiences/knowledge. I now believe that the OP is so angry that the situation is bubbling over in his head. I get the anger - whether the prob. was caused by an improper oil change or a failed part. I also now realize that the OP is only looking for validation of his opinion and anger. So, this is where I stop sharing. Except 1 tidbit, the OP should pay more attention to the actual technicians and dealer service folks that have contributed. Their replies have good/valid info.
Knotsure...how would you take comments such as this from Supraru -

"People always try to get stuff for free. Just like this guy trying to over think everything so he can be mad and argue with subaru for an engine. Just like everyone else who breaks their engine with mods on their car then returns it to stock to try and get it fixed under warranty for free. People are just scum balls."

People are just scum balls?? Yeah, that's good/valid info right there...being called a scum ball b/c I simply want a major issue resolved by my dealership or SOA reallllly helps...or the People trying to get stuff for free?? Ummm no...what I am trying to do is get my engine back to the way it was...and at this point, how do you suppose I do that? I'm not looking for validation of my opinion and anger...I am trying to get my dealership to understand that simply changing the oil, putting a new filter on it, and then being told "it runs great!" isn't really going to satisfy my concerns about the current state of my engine. What do you think they'll do if I start asking them, I want you to teardown my engine, and examine the cylinders, blah blah blah...ohh...and do this free of charge b/c this is your fault...how do you suppose that would go over? I mean that would be the ONLY real way of determining the full extent of this damage, correct? As a technician...would you not agree? My experience with dealerships is that they fight you tooth and nail when it involves anything warranty related, or anything that involves them eating some cost b/c they did something wrong. Geeez, I had to call SOA to even get their service manager to return my call, or even listen to my concerns.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:45 AM   #92
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So for the techs in this thread assuming everything's just fine and dandy, what caused the OP's engine to start running rough and shut off repeatedly? Of course a motor can be fine after being run very low on oil, but then it shouldn't die and keep dying either...or make a loud banging noise or start running rough. The dealer's explanation of AVCS shutting off the motor as a failsafe due to low oil pressure is total BS. I'd also be concerned about the turbo suffering damage.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
sweetie...you need to sell the car

do it tomorrow

do not wait


there is no way your life will ever be the same again if you keep the car....so sell it

This is actually good advice. You want a new car at the same rate of payments. Then they can sell the car or put it to auction.

My wife ran a Subie low about ten years ago. It never blew up, but it was never the same again. Ask them if they would do a trade in.

They should have cut open the filter, and looked for metal. Silver flakes equal bad ju ju.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:04 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Once you spin a bearing there is no going back. It doesn't get better...only louder.

Bearings aren't the only thing on an engine that can be effected by low oil. My wife toasted a piston in the Subie that was 3 quarts down. Lower compression in one cylinder, used oil, rattled bad at start up. Drove it forever, but hated it.

I have torn down a lot of engines, and seen some pretty bad stuff in engines that were ''fine''.

I wouldn't want to own this car without a new motor. I would definitely push for a sweet trade in deal, or I would have a Lawyer write a letter of intent.

If the car is so great, they will be happy to take it in trade.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:44 AM   #95
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Wait the over reacting guy has nothing to say to the level headed guy who knows what he's talking about? I'm telling you what will happen and how this will be handled. I am a certified subaru mechanic and work at a dealer. That would make my input correct and valid. Not some guy who's just pissed off trying to get a free engine.

Actually flash back my life to 2001 when I first bought my car. I believe it was the second oil change I did to my car I double gasketed my oil filter. Never checked to make sure the old one came off like my dad taught me when I was young. I put in my oil in my car and started it up and let it run. The way my driveway was it was on a slight hill towards the rear of the car so the oil ran all the way back to there before I noticed anything. Pretty much shut it off right before all the oil was out. Engine was still good when I swapped it out 6 years later.

Again you know it's not the same anymore? Do you have proof of this? Is there a cel on? You can claim it's not the same but clearly you're the type that is over reacting in this situation. The dealer did all it needs to do. Please explain how I am the idiot here.
I have seen a LOT of low oil situations over the last 35 years, and I can tell you that the dealer did all it wants to, and that it may or may not resolve the issue.

I think the OP should be polite, but I cannot tell you that he is wrong, because I have not examined the engine. Nor have you. Your experience has led you to form an opinion, not to determine a fact.

The OP is reacting strongly, but that doesn't make him wrong. It is not possible for you to factually state that he is wrong from where you are. That doesn't mean that I know that you are wrong, it just means that we don't know. I was a paid professional mechanic for enough years to have seen more than a few of these situations. They aren't all the same.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:54 AM   #96
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I have seen a LOT of low oil situations over the last 35 years, and I can tell you that the dealer did all it wants to, and that it may or may not resolve the issue.

I think the OP should be polite, but I cannot tell you that he is wrong, because I have not examined the engine. Nor have you. Your experience has led you to form an opinion, not to determine a fact.

The OP is reacting strongly, but that doesn't make him wrong. It is not possible for you to factually state that he is wrong from where you are. That doesn't mean that I know that you are wrong, it just means that we don't know. I was a paid professional mechanic for enough years to have seen more than a few of these situations. They aren't all the same.
There you go...Daniel has summarized my thoughts and feelings in a more succinct, organized manner...thank you sir! The facts are:
1) they messed up the procedure, or the oil filter failed.
2) my car wasn't driven for 2 days (service performed Mon, didn't drive it again until Wed)...however, if the filter leaked as claimed, wouldn't i see an oil spill in my garage? there's not a drop of oil in my garage where i normally park??
3) i drove to work wed, and then went to my mom's house for lunch (also, no oil spill in her driveway?). upon driving home, engine smoked, made unusual grinding noises, tach would rev high but car would be sluggish (kinda like if the car were in N, and you step on the gas...but it was in a drive gear..4th at the time i believe), engine then lurched, and then that banging sound followed by total engine shutdown/failure. Car would not start afterwards. question about this is, i notice several posters mentioned low oil pressure light/indicator...wouldn't this have come on the whole time? and my check engine light way before? the cel did not come on until the point where the engine just shutdown??
4) car is towed on flatbed to dealership. at the dealership, i check the oil filler cap (it's on)...and look at the dipstick (it appears to have no oil on it)?? i document that with camera phone/video. leave a message on their service center's vm, and write down everything that happened on the night dropbox envelope
5) i show up 6:45 am Thur. their service guy meets me and i tell him what happened, then he and i walk to my car and he examines the dipstick. he agrees there is no oil on it. says he will get it to the lift and find out what happened.
6) later in the day, he says they determined the cause to be a blown seal or gasket on the oil filter which caused the oil to leak out. he also says just b/c no oil on the dipstick doesn't mean you have no oil in your engine...says i'm just down 2 qts...but when i ask him how much was actually in the engine, he says he doesn't know b/c they never measured. he also mentions the variable valve timing fail safe thing, and says when that detects low oil pressure, it shutdowns your engine...he says his service mgr is talking to an SOA engineer to confirm this...but never tells me if she actually did or not. also, several posters on this forum says that is BS...there's no such thing...so you can see why my trust in them has waned.
7) service guy calls me around 1 or 2 and says they filled up the car with new oil, a new filter, and says they test drove it for 15-20 miles...says it "drives great! you're ready to go" he also says this whole situation has been documented and a report to soa will be sent. i ask for copies of this, and he says sure.
8) i pick up the car at 5:30, both service guy and service mgr have left. i ask the other service guy for the documentation/report...he hands me the work order receipt?? i express my dissatisfaction about this whole mess and i ask him what tests were done to see the extent of this damage...he says they test drove it?? redid the oil/filter change. i asked about compression/leakdown/engine teardown...he says take it up with service guy and service mgr in the morning
9) upon driving home...car does not drive like it did prior to this snafu. engine drives rough, acceleration and linear powerband do not feel the same...acceleration feels labored...also vibration and shaking around 70-75mph. had the car drove like it did prior to monday...i probably would've been ok/satisfied...but it didn't. also, i drove the car this morning, and now i hear a strange knocking/pinging sound from the engine????? it comes and goes?????
10) i leave a vm for the service mgr to call me in the morning to discuss my dissatisfaction. it's friday 11pm, and and i still hear nothing from her. i try to call her numerous times, and i get her vm. totally dissatisfied at this point, i call SOA's 800 customer line and i talk to a customer rep...tell him everything...and also tell him that dealership's service mgr hasn't returned my call for whatever reason. he says he will contact them and he will contact me again before monday eod.
11) shortly after this call, service mgr finally calls and immediately says i understand you contacted SOA...i tell her yes b/c i wasn't satisfied with the way dealership has handled this, and that my car isn't the same as before the pre oil change snafu. i also told her no tests (that i'm aware of) was performed on my car to determine the extent of this damage...i was given a new oil change and sent on my way. she tells me she understands my frustration and feels awful that this happened...but she also says SOA is on the hook b/c it was their defective filter that caused this mess. she then says SOA field rep will be here Tuesday to meet me at 11am to discuss the situation.

My course of action for tuesday will be to a) ask that they teardown my engine for a complete examination of problems...i would like an independent garage to do this and for SOA to pay for it, but doubtful if that happens...b) ask SOA to replace my engine with a brand new engine...or c) buy back my car at wholesale value...gtp value is 18500 i believe...i know i could sell it for more than that as a private seller...and then just buy a new subaru.

I would think the above requests are reasonable given the events that have occurred.

Last edited by db97; 12-09-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:08 AM   #97
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I am a republican who WORKS for a living...pays his mortgage, bills, taxes, raises his kids, etc. What I am entitled to is that when I pay for a service (oil change), it does not result in a major engine malfunction. As a business, my dealership, and SOA should own up to whatever mistake was made, be it faulty service, or a defective part, and fix this to the customer's satisfaction...not their bottomline.

I will cease further comment(s) on this situation until I speak with the Field Rep Tuesday. I can see there are two groups of posters on this thread...those who believe i'm overreacting, and those who think I have valid concerns. All I will say is that if this happened to you, how would you react? I would imagine most would feel as I do...and not make inane suggestions or remarks like some of the folks on this forum.
Now you're bringing your rights into the argument? lol. Dude you need help.

I already stated I would be mad it happened but clearly my car is ok. Your wheel vibration is you wheels not balanced correctly. Your heavy clutch has zero to do with your engine oiling system. Over time your clutch pedal will get heavier as everything wears. The fact that you even bring either of them up proves how over reactive you're being.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #98
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and i only call supraru an idiot b/c he reminds me of my know-it-all GM engineer brother...who knows everything, and says people are stupid b/c they don't listen to him or do what he says. supraru, you would like him...actually you probably wouldn't b/c he says buy american, not jap crap...sighhhhh.
I never claimed to know everything. So again you're over reacting. I am simply giving you my advise. Since you posted your concern on a public forum I am more then entitled to respond and give you my "expert" opinion since my job is to work on these cars and I deal with situations (someone over reacting to an issue) pretty often. Again you've been documented on here saying your car doesn't drive the same. Two of your claims have absolutely nothing to do with what happened to your car. One being your power doesn't seem right is the only valid claim you have. Since I haven't driven the car I can't say but given your woman like emotional state I'd almost put money on that your car is running completely normal.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:28 AM   #99
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Go get a compression test. End thread.


Because you didn't damage any bearings, they didn't cause the engine to shut off. If you ran low enough for it to shut down, it wouldn't magically come alive with oil. So either you're story has a lot of drama added to it, or something else caused the engine to shut off.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:52 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by db97 View Post
Knotsure...how would you take comments such as this from Supraru -

"People always try to get stuff for free. Just like this guy trying to over think everything so he can be mad and argue with subaru for an engine. Just like everyone else who breaks their engine with mods on their car then returns it to stock to try and get it fixed under warranty for free. People are just scum balls."

People are just scum balls?? Yeah, that's good/valid info right there...being called a scum ball b/c I simply want a major issue resolved by my dealership or SOA reallllly helps...or the People trying to get stuff for free?? Ummm no...what I am trying to do is get my engine back to the way it was...and at this point, how do you suppose I do that? I'm not looking for validation of my opinion and anger...I am trying to get my dealership to understand that simply changing the oil, putting a new filter on it, and then being told "it runs great!" isn't really going to satisfy my concerns about the current state of my engine. What do you think they'll do if I start asking them, I want you to teardown my engine, and examine the cylinders, blah blah blah...ohh...and do this free of charge b/c this is your fault...how do you suppose that would go over? I mean that would be the ONLY real way of determining the full extent of this damage, correct? As a technician...would you not agree? My experience with dealerships is that they fight you tooth and nail when it involves anything warranty related, or anything that involves them eating some cost b/c they did something wrong. Geeez, I had to call SOA to even get their service manager to return my call, or even listen to my concerns.
Again you're not going to get a tear down of your engine. You'll be lucky to even get a compression and leak down. The engineer will probably drive the car and see there is nothing wrong with it. If it isn't performing correctly then I'm sure he'll move forward.

Do you have full service history of your car? Do you Change your oil every 3750 miles or before? Have you performed every service recommended by subaru on time or early? Do you see where I'm going with this? If you're going over on mileage every oil change who's to say if this magical tear down that's not going to happen they are just going to look at your service records and say you were late on all of your oil changes. Because you didn't maintain your car properly and on schedule any possible damage that they may see could be caused by your lack of maintenance.

Again I'm telling you if you're over reacting and your car performs as it should there is nothing that will be done for you. Maybe the service manager will throw in some free oil changes or something.
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