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Old 12-09-2012, 12:00 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
Go get a compression test. End thread.


Because you didn't damage any bearings, they didn't cause the engine to shut off. If you ran low enough for it to shut down, it wouldn't magically come alive with oil. So either you're story has a lot of drama added to it, or something else caused the engine to shut off.
^^^^This

I'm starting to believe there is some lies being told to sell a story here. Again I'm not saying what the dealer says is right either. I was always taught when trying to verify things not to assume. I'm guessing the tech was trying to cover his ass to his manager by saying the car will shut itself off in a low oil state.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:08 PM   #102
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For the techs on this thread...thanks for your advice (regardless of whether or not I agree). As I mentioned before...I am trying to glean whatever helpful information I can...I use to do all the car maintenance on my Subies...but once I found a decently high paying job, got married, had 2 kids, became a 60 hour a week workaholic...that free time to do maintenance on my vehicle disappeared. I now pay folks to do this maintenance for me b/c a) I can afford to, and b) I simply don't have the time anymore. And yes, I know how to change oil...open the filler cap, jack up the car, put the oil drain pan underneath, loosen the drain plug, allow the oil to drain, go watch some UofL football/basketball, come back and loosen the oil filter...make sure you hold it upright when removed so the oil doesn't spill everywhere, wipe down the area, and check for any residual debris (i.e. gaskets or seals that may have come loose from the previous filter), take the new oil filter, wipe a decent amount of oil around the seal to get it all nice and lubed, retighten while making sure you haven't cross threaded anything, once seated, turn it 3/4 turn by hand or a oil filter wrench, wipe any residue...check again to see if it is properly seated/tightened...wipe the drain plug area clean, retighten the plug, tighten it to the proper torque settings...lower the car, find some nice Mobil 1 syn oil 5w30, fill that baby up to I believe it's about 4.6 qts or so?? Check the dipstick 2 or 3 times...then start her up...check under the car to see if there are any leaks...and then go for a test spin...when you get back check the dipstick again to see if any additional oil is needed...so yeah, i've changed oil before...changed spark plugs, done the tranny fluid drain and fill (via the old how to's from the previous website...whatever nasioc use to be called...i forget the name...but yeah i did that to...) ...anyway, what i'm saying is i may not be a certified subie tech, but i have done general maintenance on my car, and previous '02 WRX...I simply don't do it anymore b/c i don't have the time...and i can pay someone i thought was competent enough to do it. Before folks start judging others for being irrational, or have clouded judgement b/c they are angry (and yeah, i'm still angry)...i would caution them to step back and put themselves in that person's shoes.
Well for one when checking the oil level after the car was running you're supposed to let it sit maybe 5-10 min to let all the oil drain then check the dipstick on a flat area. This is the only way to get the proper reading.

Second you forgot the step of putting on the crush ring on the drain plug. Without it the oil can easily leak from there.

Lastly Mobil 1 is garbage. Probably one of the worst oils you can put into your wrx.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:20 PM   #103
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Not that I'm commenting further in this thread or anything, but ? For Suparu or other techie Suby folks her...your opinion anyway..isn't there some kind of check valve with Subaru oil filters? Do you think that's what the Svc. Mgr was referencing and it got confusing as it was shared?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:20 PM   #104
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When others talked about whole sale price they meant the dealership should sell you a car for whole sale not them pay you wholesale, if anything they should pay you full retail for your car so you can put that towards another.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #105
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Not that I'm commenting further in this thread or anything, but ? For Suparu or other techie Suby folks her...your opinion anyway..isn't there some kind of check valve with Subaru oil filters? Do you think that's what the Svc. Mgr was referencing and it got confusing as it was shared?
Most likely not. They are talking about the oil control valve. It controls the avcs. When someone doesn't change their oil frequently the screen can clog up and throw a code because timing can no longer be advanced or retarded like it is designed to do. In low oil situations this cel can also come on because there isn't enough oil pressure to operate the system. But the car will no stall out due to it. In a low oil situation the engine will just seize.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:33 PM   #106
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Again you're not going to get a tear down of your engine. You'll be lucky to even get a compression and leak down. The engineer will probably drive the car and see there is nothing wrong with it. If it isn't performing correctly then I'm sure he'll move forward.

Do you have full service history of your car? Do you Change your oil every 3750 miles or before? Have you performed every service recommended by subaru on time or early? Do you see where I'm going with this? If you're going over on mileage every oil change who's to say if this magical tear down that's not going to happen they are just going to look at your service records and say you were late on all of your oil changes. Because you didn't maintain your car properly and on schedule any possible damage that they may see could be caused by your lack of maintenance.

Again I'm telling you if you're over reacting and your car performs as it should there is nothing that will be done for you. Maybe the service manager will throw in some free oil changes or something.
yes yes yes and yes...i baby my cars...heck i'm the kinda guy that make people kick off the dirt on their feet before entering my car (i'm asian, we're OCD like that) i have been a bachman customer since '02. unlike the '02 wrx, i allowed the dealership to do all my maintenance...i followed their service program to a T...i change the oil every 3000 miles religiously. for them to say well, this car hasn't been maintained isn't possible b/c all they have to do is look at the dealership's service history for this car...it's all there. like i said, i can afford to have someone else do this maintenance now, so i trusted bachman to care for my car...period. my car has close to 50k miles on it now...i've had EVERY service done to it that they recommended in their service program book thing. this is the deal..why i know my car isn't the same b/c before Monday, it drove great...fine...no issues whatsoever...it was like butter smooth with nice linear acceleration...two days later...it doesn't. you cannot tell me i'm overreacting...cars do not just change their driving characteristics in two days without cause...which in this case was the engine being oil deprived. i get what y'all are saying about maintenance and what not...but again...this all changed in 2 days??? also, as i mentioned in that previous post...i drove it this morning on the expressway...and i'm now hearing a knocking/pinging sound...it's weird b/c it goes away when i accelerate...then seems to come back when i take my foot off the gas??

Last edited by db97; 12-11-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:36 PM   #107
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Well for one when checking the oil level after the car was running you're supposed to let it sit maybe 5-10 min to let all the oil drain then check the dipstick on a flat area. This is the only way to get the proper reading.

Second you forgot the step of putting on the crush ring on the drain plug. Without it the oil can easily leak from there.

Lastly Mobil 1 is garbage. Probably one of the worst oils you can put into your wrx.
ok yeah...i forgot the crush valve step...dude, i haven't done an oil change in so long that i forgot that step...but i always remembered putting it on the drain plug...my bad. also, why is mobil 1 so bad? i thought they made pretty good syn oil?

i mean don't all these OEMs use it for their cars...like porsche, bmw, etc?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:53 PM   #108
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ok yeah...i forgot the crush valve step...dude, i haven't done an oil change in so long that i forgot that step...but i always remembered putting it on the drain plug...my bad. also, why is mobil 1 so bad? i thought they made pretty good syn oil?

i mean don't all these OEMs use it for their cars...like porsche, bmw, etc?
Well you went though writing all those words just to prove you knew how to do an oil change but you forgot a pretty important part.

Do a search on mobil 1 on here. Cliff notes: Subaru engines don't like it and likes to spin bearings.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:06 PM   #109
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Well you went though writing all those words just to prove you knew how to do an oil change but you forgot a pretty important part.

Do a search on mobil 1 on here. Cliff notes: Subaru engines don't like it and likes to spin bearings.
alright point taken...i'm usually a very detailed person (IT consultant for a healthcare company)...however, this whole situation has thrown me for a loop. i haven't been able to focus on work, family, whatever b/c of what happened to my car and the stress it has created.

and thanks for the head's up on mobil 1. lemme ask you, what is a good syn oil for subies?
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by db97 View Post
why is mobil 1 so bad? i thought they made pretty good syn oil?

i mean don't all these OEMs use it for their cars...like porsche, bmw, etc?
Most 5w-30 energy conserving oils don't do well in Subaru turbo motors. There have been numerous Blackstone oil analysis results posted on NASIOC where Mobil 1 5w-30 sheers down to a 20w. Others complain about higher than normal oil usage with M1.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #111
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alright point taken...i'm usually a very detailed person (IT consultant for a healthcare company)...however, this whole situation has thrown me for a loop. i haven't been able to focus on work, family, whatever b/c of what happened to my car and the stress it has created.

and thanks for the head's up on mobil 1. lemme ask you, what is a good syn oil for subies?
It's your choice. A lot of people use Rotella T6 and swear by it. I use edge. There is huge threads dedicated to oil choice on here.

Sure it causes stress. This is the same stuff I tell other techs when they come into work with an attitude looking for a fight when they get into an argument with their wives.....leave that stuff at home. There is nothing you can do till you find out what the rep says. I am here as a mechanic who has dealt with these kind of things. The attitude isn't needed.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #112
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I would have a independent shop do a compression test and also have a oil analysis done when your next oil change is due. It would be worth the money either way.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:09 PM   #113
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I would have a independent shop do a compression test and also have a oil analysis done when your next oil change is due. It would be worth the money either way.
In terms of compression testing...I recall a previous poster saying you really can't determine anything by doing that b/c you would've needed to do a compression test prior to this oil change snafu, correct? ...to view the "before and after" readings. If they don't agree to an engine teardown, then I should ask for -
1) compression testing (I assume this checks for leaks in the cylinders, and issues with seals/rings...right?)
2) leakdown testing - what exactly is leakdown testing?
3) oil analysis
4) any other tests I should ask for? ...also all of this done at an independent garage (i.e. not my dealer)

Again, to my knowledge, the only test they performed was a driving test after they refilled the oil and put on a new filter.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:52 PM   #114
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I'm guessing the tech was trying to cover his ass to his manager by saying the car will shut itself off in a low oil state.
Yeah that had me cracking up right there.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:53 PM   #115
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i drove it this morning on the expressway...and i'm now hearing a knocking/pinging sound...it's weird b/c it goes away when i accelerate...then seems to come back when i take my foot off the gas??
Rod knock would get louder as you accelerate. Record it and post.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:48 AM   #116
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Rod knock would get louder as you accelerate. Record it and post.
I too would like to see a video to see if this guy is full of crap or extremely over reacting.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:57 AM   #117
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6) later in the day, he says they determined the cause to be a blown seal or gasket on the oil filter which caused the oil to leak out. he also says just b/c no oil on the dipstick doesn't mean you have no oil in your engine...says i'm just down 2 qts...but when i ask him how much was actually in the engine, he says he doesn't know b/c they never measured. he also mentions the variable valve timing fail safe thing, and says when that detects low oil pressure, it shutdowns your engine...he says his service mgr is talking to an SOA engineer to confirm this...but never tells me if she actually did or not. also, several posters on this forum says that is BS...there's no such thing...so you can see why my trust in them has waned.
I feel bad for the OP, this dealer's just yanking his chain and feeding him a bunch of crap...not to mention trying to sweep him and his car under the rug. I guess the tech there has an oil volume meter built into his eyeballs - he can determine the exact amount by watching the oil drain out into the rolling oil drain container!!

I'm curious how the dealer is going to present their claim of a defective oil filter seal to SOA without turning the suspicion on themselves. In not sure what the process is, but the BS meter has to be beeping on this one!
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #118
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wow, in for the dealer fail, but it comes with a bonus drama thread!

anyway, if I were the op, I'd drive the piss out of that car ASAP! It sounds like the engine is probably going to pop at some point. If it makes it a year and 10k miles, you will have zero claims against this issue. If the engine dies in a short time though, its a whole different story.

And if an oil change ever screws up your engine again, make sure there is NO recovering the engine! Drive it back to the dealer in first gear, at redline, the entire way.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:59 AM   #119
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i was thinking... the avcs cut ioff that has been mentioned. is it possible that the avcs did cause the stall? in my mind if the timming is to be advancing and it doesn't but the fuel isn't compensated fast enough or corectly could this cause the AFR to go super rich and bog the engine enough to stall. just thinking outloud.

now i have been watching this thread and it seems that their is an idle feeling that something is very wrong. whether people believe the OP or not it is his car and he has the right to pursue this issue untill it is resolved or everything is checked thoroughly and given the stamp of approval (prefferably by another shop).

it seems that a lot of people are ignoring the fact that the dealership performed the oil change and is liable for the damages or problem that has arose. for all we know there may not be any issue but it should be check out... everyone on here doesn't like the idea of loosing oil and running it low.

i hope all is resolved for the OP as soon as possible. i wouldn't wish this situation on anyone.

thinking outloud once more.. evidence of a problem would be more than enough to make a case with this. is it possible to take you car to a local awd tuner and have him run a "baseline" where he can view all of the engines behavior in real time. specifically if there is knock present he could reference other subarus such as yours and scientifically and factually show that there is or isn't a problem.

just an idea i do not know if this will help or not good luck man.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:35 PM   #120
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This is one funny thread. What will happen...

Soa rep comes out, finds damage, replaces motor with a reman.
Soa rep comes out finds motor is working as designed and gives you an extended war.
Soa rep comes out finds no problem, dealer gives you a reman motor
Soa rep comes out finds no problem, dealer gives you an internal extended war.
Soa rep comes out finds no problem, dealer tell you to take a hike.

The most likely is the last.

I am a DDTs(direct dealer tech support, the super tech guy that comes out) for a jap Manufacturer, not soa.

First, no "new" motor. Doesn't exist for a customer. Also they cost 5x as much. A dealer can get one for lot vech. that has not yet been sold, because it's the law, I have seen one in my last 12 years.

Second, oil dip stick was not reading /= no oil. Supraru would have a better idea then I what the level is, but I think ~1.5 quarts low on that motor = no reading.

Third you have no clue how the oil system works, it sucks it happened but your claims are pure rubbish and I would never meet with you in person, or spend more then ten driving your car. Oil filter was not tight, doubled gasketed or (unlikely)pinched. **** happens. Leak down tests and compression test will give you nothing, tearing it down (that will never happen) will show you bearing wear, which is what happens when the motor runs. This is not a mechanical failure, it's temp. oil deprivation. Drive it, sell it, stop crying about it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #121
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Default issue has been resolved to my complete satisfaction...

Had the meeting with the SOA rep, and all I have to say is that my faith, loyalty, and trust has been restored...with Subaru of America, and my dealership. Furthermore, I will continue to buy Subarus (b/c I love 'em!), and I will continue to take them to this dealership.

Kudos to both for resolving this situation to my complete satisfaction...and then some!

OP

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Old 12-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #122
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So what was the resolution? You can't leave everyone hanging after 5 drama filled pages...
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:53 PM   #123
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Default well...

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So what was the resolution? You can't leave everyone hanging after 5 drama filled pages...
if i divulge the details, i will get ragged on by the haters who think i'm a sissy butt, whiny @$$...cryin about why my car got wronged, etc.

i will say that the rep was great...and my dealership was greater in acknowledging their need to get this right b/c of my loyalty to them and Subaru...period.

all is well that ends well...no more drama here.

Last edited by db97; 12-11-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:08 PM   #124
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This is what happened. Op went to the dealer and nicely argued about resale value and that he felt the car was messed up with all the imaginary noises and vibrations. He also told them he works 60 hours a week and is a republican. Subaru people looked at his car and found nothing wrong but decided to avoid agrivations just make him happy and give him a new motor.

Spot on I'm sure otherwise he would be mr happy. He doesn't wanna say how it is getting covered because it'll make him look like a vagina. He probably even brought in the "I already made a thread about you on nasioc".

Good thing you made this rediculous thread before you had a clue about getting it replaced. Here's a hit, might wanna fix that title ace.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:29 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
^^^^^^^If you EVER see the oil light while your engine is running..............it is OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At the 2.2 psi it takes for the light to come on......bearings will suffer if not fail completely.
Sometimes (most times) the oil light won't come on till the oil is effectively gone.

Always best to check using the eye-0-meter.
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