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Old 12-09-2012, 04:49 AM   #1
OxCitywrx09
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Default Stage 2 Precautions

I just recently went with COBB's stage two power package, and I am a little concerned about the amount of boost that I am running with the OTS map. I purchased the Cobb with the pro-tune package deal, but I still have yet to make my appointment for the dyno tune.. I have read in a few places that the tmic end tanks start to separate at 17-19psi which is where stage 2 sits.

I am working on obtaining the bulletproofing kit to reinforce the tmic,
(http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2189042)
(https://sites.google.com/site/bptmickit/)

And I also recently replaced my TB to TMIC coupler and used a T-Bolt clamp.
(http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2435584)

Current Mods:
Cobb AP
Cobb DP
Cobb SF intake w/ Box
Nameless performance Axleback (no muffler)

For monitoring boost, I have the defi red racer gauge and getting the AEM Uego soon.

Are there any other weak links that I should be aware of and fix before I set my date to get my pro-tune done?

I was thinking maybe I should get a forged BPV and a EBCS either from Cobb or Grimmspeed. Different threads say to get a forged BPV, some say don't. So this has left me a little confused. My ultimate goal is to be at ~300awh
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Last edited by OxCitywrx09; 12-09-2012 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:23 AM   #2
Dillinja666
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EBCS but dont install until you drop it off at cobb.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:35 AM   #3
Tankertruck
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I had the same goal, and had to change my intercooler (process west) and BPV because the OEM was leaking at 18 psi (changed to forged). Every car is a bit different, but I would bulletproof the OEM TMIC, change the TB/IC hose, and get a new BPV. This, in total, should cost less than $300, which is a small price for stage 2.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:46 AM   #4
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Get the forge. I have it and love the simplicity and quality of it. The design is almost identical to the stock valve, but it's made out of metal instead of plastic. I personally don't care if the stock valve can be modified to handle higher pressure. The solid forge valve offers some peace of mind from a known weak link in the system.

Last edited by Decipher; 12-09-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:50 AM   #5
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Tanker--What TB/IC hose, and upgraded BPV did you use?

Is there a generally accepted brand that people use as these upgrades?
Also, How do you like you PW IC, and what kind of price did you end up getting?

Can anyone tell that stage 2 is on my mind? I want to do so with utmost (relative) reliability...

EDIT: I see that the forge BPV valve seems to be a good option, but based upon this thread/description,http://www.wrxforums.com/forums/56-g...v-08-wrxs.html the "NEWER" design may not work with aftermarket intercoolers d/t the diamond shaped seal/groove which is designed to match the stocker...Any other options for those with aftermarket IC's?

Last edited by Syndr78; 12-09-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:06 AM   #6
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just had to change out my stocker for a forge. the plastic one leaks and caused some minor fueling issues.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankertruck View Post
I had the same goal, and had to change my intercooler (process west) and BPV because the OEM was leaking at 18 psi (changed to forged). Every car is a bit different, but I would bulletproof the OEM TMIC, change the TB/IC hose, and get a new BPV. This, in total, should cost less than $300, which is a small price for stage 2.
Where did you get all that for less then 300?
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:22 AM   #8
Syndr78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Silverex View Post
Where did you get all that for less then 300?
I'd say he's referring to the 1. new coupler, 2. Bulletproof mod, and 3. New BPV.

NOT including the New tmic.

I re-read the linked threads regarding the coupler. I can see where I'll end up going with the PW TMIC in time. Problem persists in that the newer Forge BPV has a diamond shape seal as opposed to a round one. That diamond shape matches the stock TMIC, but NOT the PW. SOOO, what BPV should be used if someone has an aftermarket TMIC that does NOT have the diamond shape seal/gasket?
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:50 AM   #9
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Things you COULD do for peace of mind.
1)Fuel Pump
2)Fuel Injectors
3)Aftermarket Intercooler
4)Aftermarket Bypass vavle
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:14 PM   #10
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I got all my parts used; venair TB hose ($40), TMIC bulletproof kit was $80, and black forge BPV was $125 - all on here/club wrx. You just have to be patient and have the cash ready to go immediately. I even have my venair TB hose still that Iim not using anymore (process west now), so if you are interested drop me a line. I'll have to dig it out for pictures, and I'm not sure how new it looks, but it has less than 500 miles on it.

As a side note, my tuner at stage 2+, recommended a Fuel pump and new injectors.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:31 PM   #11
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For stage 2+ PW TMIC and upgraded BPV, running the TP stage 2 map--Injectors and fuel pump should not be needed, from what I understand.

That's going with the notion that the BPV and TMIC are more for peace of mind/reliability as opposed to maximizing boost and power levels...

Again--Tanker, do you have the older style black forge BPV, or the newer one (with the diamond/stock IC shaped seal)?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:55 PM   #12
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Let's clarify something, 08+ models at stage 2 are near maxed out IDC, a fuel pump and injectors are simply for a reliability/peace of mind aspect. Are they needed? No. Would it be smart to do? Sure.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:58 PM   #13
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I have the diamond-shaped BPV in black (used the stock gasket), but, assuming the mounting holes are in the same spot, the PW intercooler has a flat flange for the BPV connection - so I don't know if BPV matters that much. I don't see how a gasket would matter if the screws line up, to be honest, it's against a flat surface. Just the IC/TB connection was worth what I paid for it, as a side note. I bought it slightly used for $600 + shipping, iirc - and add on $20 in T-clamps. My car is working perfectly fine with this BPV, boosting 20.0 +/- .5 psi on each log, and no compressor surge when I let off (just an awesome BPV sound). Shrug, it seems to work for me.

My build thread is here, if you need more info:
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/builds...hoose-you.html
I know it's another forum, but I can't keep 2 build logs going at once.

I would only suggest (and did suggest, and will continue to suggest with your conservative/reliable requirements), that once/if you go to TP Stage 3, you plan on getting the injectors and pump. Otherwise (just stage 2 as you've suggested so far), you'll be fine with the above referenced mods. Are they even needed at stage 3, probably not, but depending on the car they could be to get the most out of your tune (i.e. I want it both reliable and powerful - that's the biggest difference I've noticed between 2 and 3 - one was perfectly fine with stock hardware, one needed a bit of tweaking to get right). For instance, my last log (TP Stage 3), stock injectors were definitely maxed out, but when I was logging Cobb stage 2 they weren't (pretty close though), which meant we had to tune around this issue a bit. A pump was suggested as 'highly recommended' based on my car and my criteria, but not injectors to start with on my car (i.e. do the pump and see if, for some reason, the injectors change at all - not expected, but slightly possible). It was expected, on how my car performed, that they might be needed to keep everything as conservative as I want. I DD this car, so part of my requirements was it was as close to DD-reliable as possible, which might have been part of the discussion. This probably isn't needed/required on 90% of the cars, but it is something to think about when you push past the stage 2 point and still want some reliability (if you can call it that at this point).

However, for Cobb stage 2, I don't think you'll need more than an AP, DP, IC upgrade and BPV upgrade to have a fun, reliable, safe(ish) car.

I found stage 2 was a great drive, and that stage 3 (I know it's only 2 psi more) has been a bit more... interesting to drive. Fun, yeah, interesting at times, though.

Last edited by Tankertruck; 12-09-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:37 PM   #14
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Thanks for all of the great info! The process west is out of reach for now so here is what I have gathered.

In addition to what I have, I am probably looking for:
- TMIC bp mod.
- Forged BPV
- Cobb EBCS
- AEM UEGO

Nice build you got going there Tanker truck
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:03 PM   #15
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Nice build indeed. So much so that I have pinned your build thread to my favorites, and will be referencing it for pointers as I acquire my stage 2 stuff...Just ordered my cobb catted DP...
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:36 PM   #16
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...And the PW TMIC was ordered today. Will be ordering the Forge BPV tomorrow, along with a group N trans mount. FWIW, My TP stage 1+aem has been hitting a hair over 19psi during WOT 1 through 2nd pulls. I spoke with Eric and will log these pulls and have them checked out.

I can't imagine it's the map/tune (only hit 18 psi with typical 3rd gear 2500-redline pull). Does this indicate the stock is BPV ALREADY failing?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #17
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Nice ! I just put in my order for my Bp tmic mod and forge bypass. Wooot woot. Can't wait.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:36 AM   #18
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Make sure you guy T-clamps with the PW TMIC
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:20 PM   #19
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I don't mean to hijack the thread, but going stage 2 without the bulletproof mod and all the other mods would ruin reliability?
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX View Post
Things you COULD do for peace of mind.
1)Fuel Pump
2)Fuel Injectors
3)Aftermarket Intercooler
4)Aftermarket Bypass vavle
This pretty much sums up everything you would want to replace for best reliability at stage 2.

Are they all necessary? No. Your BPV and IC might hold the boost just fine with no leaks ... it's really hit or miss whether they leak or not. Also as Hinshaw later pointed out, your injectors will pretty much be maxed out at stage 2 .. so they are worth a look as well.

I personally do all of those above mods on my stage 2 cars, and I do not go stage 2 until I have them all ready to go. Some will say that is overkill and a waste, but I have never had any of my WRX's blow up on me.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #21
Syndr78
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Converted to stage 2 yesterday with the following:

1. Cobb catted and heatwrapped DP
2. Forge BPV
3. PW TMIC
4. AEM intake
5. Torqued performance OTS tune.

Im curious as to how necessary the upgraded fuel pump and injectors are.

I need to post some data logs from 1-3rd WOT pulls. There was some feedback knock between shiftsfrom 1-2 and 2-3/going back to 100% throttle.
I emailed Eric, and he seems to thinks it's just "noise" between shifts. I need to confirm this some way...
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:45 AM   #22
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Just an FYI - the bulletproof mod is great but it won't fix all the leaks. The plastic TMIC will just leak out of any spot where the plastic meets the core at higher boost. I also went with constant torque clamps instead of t-bolt clamps for the throttle body hose. The Forge BPV has been working flawlessly for me.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndr78 View Post
Converted to stage 2 yesterday with the following:

1. Cobb catted and heatwrapped DP
2. Forge BPV
3. PW TMIC
4. AEM intake
5. Torqued performance OTS tune.

Im curious as to how necessary the upgraded fuel pump and injectors are.

I need to post some data logs from 1-3rd WOT pulls. There was some feedback knock between shiftsfrom 1-2 and 2-3/going back to 100% throttle.
I emailed Eric, and he seems to thinks it's just "noise" between shifts. I need to confirm this some way...
Just give it some time for the ECU to learn...then do your logs. give it about 3-4 fuel fillups. Congrats though. pump n injectors not necessary but would be good.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:15 PM   #24
OxCitywrx09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arf80 View Post
Just an FYI - the bulletproof mod is great but it won't fix all the leaks. The plastic TMIC will just leak out of any spot where the plastic meets the core at higher boost. I also went with constant torque clamps instead of t-bolt clamps for the throttle body hose. The Forge BPV has been working flawlessly for me.
Bulletproofing of the tmic is still better than running a stock tmic at stage 2. This will be the fix until I pull the trigger on a new pw tmic. I think with the bp tmic and the forge bpv and clamping down the hoses in the process is a good risk prevention plan, and will help extend the fun associated with being at stage 2
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #25
Syndr78
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Did 2 3rd gear pull and logs today. No feedback knock this time, but I did get up to -1.4 fine knock learning from 56k rpms up to about 65k when I let off.

I did notice that my IDC's are getting up to 104%. I sent these to Eric at TP, and he has sent me a revision which i will flash tomorrow. I will likely give it a tank of gas or 2 prior to running a logs.

Point is, relative to reliability and precaution--I can see where I may end up getting some bigger injectors. This car is brand new, and needs to last. Gotta make it as "comfortable" at stage 2 power as I can.

BTW--Eric's customer service is some of the best I've dealt with in any industry. He is prompt, friendly and patient. I am thankful for his help, and recommend him to anyone.
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