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Old 12-12-2012, 08:31 PM   #1
DeM3n
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Default HELP NEEDED! CEL codes P0102 & P0113

So I know these have to do with the MAF and IAT but we've done what we could with the MAF. It's been cleaned and swapped out with 2 other used ones and my car still stalls after turning on. It's not responding to any throttle given to it now. The wires have been checked and everything seems fine.

We traced them back to where it Y's into the wiring harness and it's not pinched or cut anywhere. The pins and connectors all look good and we're getting power from them.

I'm at a loss now and can't get the car to stay on. Any help would be appreciated!
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:49 PM   #2
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are you sure its facing the right way? on certain intakes its easy to mix it up and put it in backwards(flipped ). thats for the stalling part. if you haave a low or high voltGe that is a different story

you need to provide background from the time car ran fine

if its not the obvious make sure ground pin on connector has continuety to ground and so on

Last edited by al_s14; 12-12-2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:13 AM   #3
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what else was done or happened right before this issue started???

ALL the details....
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:26 AM   #4
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The car was taken to my mechanic after the engine experienced a freak accident where a/c belt tensioner failed and ended up digging into the timing belt cover. The belt then wrapped itself around the crank. I had the heads checked and valves were bent. Heads were repaired along with installing brand new bc valves. Work was done at a machine shop.

The crank ended up bending slightly. Drivers cam sprocket needed to be replaced as well. Instead of rebuilding it I bought a new bottom end block from Subaru. Pistons were installed by my mechanic. Engine put back together and dropped in as well. Bought a new battery and changed the alternator as well.

Car started up fine the first time and we were able to drive it around the block but would stall at stop lights. We'd have to keep revving it to keep it alive. No one codes at this point. Got it back to the shop and it would now idle but as soon as we gave it throttle it would die. Then, these codes appeared.

Now I'm at at the first post. Cleaned MAF and swapped it out twice and no changes except that now the car doesn't respond to any throttle and just dies. The first MAF gave a weird reading of - 40 degrees for the IAT. We figured it was bad but changing it hasn't done anything. We haven't checked the readings with the new MAF. This car is driving me nuts!
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:30 AM   #5
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-40 is what ait reads when unplugged or resistance at infinity /open circuit, start checking wiring

and definetly confirm current readings before proceeding. you dont want to rear it up before having all the facts
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:54 AM   #6
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Thanks al_s14. I'll check it out tomorrow and get back to you guys. Thanks for the help thus far.

It's just so strange since this was never an issue before. Hmm...
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:01 AM   #7
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check all the grounds....this seems to maybe ground related
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:40 AM   #8
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Quote:
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check all the grounds....this seems to maybe ground related
As I've done some searching online I've come across this as a possible culprit. I've also read that it could be an ecu issue but since it didn't do this before the new engine I'm hoping it's something like a ground or something stupid like that.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:49 PM   #9
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So the grounds were all checked and they all seem to be good. We tested the plug for the MAF and it was getting power. We traced back the wire to where it Y's from the ECU again and it was all good.

The readings for the MAF's that we switched out were all still the same... -40 degrees. We pulled the ECU itself out and there doesn't appear to be any damage done to it (no burnt out pins or anything). I'm in the process of trying to find a wiring diagram for the ECU to see if that may help us in testing some of the ECU. Or anyone else know how to check if the ECU is still good?
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeM3n View Post
So the grounds were all checked and they all seem to be good. We tested the plug for the MAF and it was getting power. We traced back the wire to where it Y's from the ECU again and it was all good.

The readings for the MAF's that we switched out were all still the same... -40 degrees. We pulled the ECU itself out and there doesn't appear to be any damage done to it (no burnt out pins or anything). I'm in the process of trying to find a wiring diagram for the ECU to see if that may help us in testing some of the ECU. Or anyone else know how to check if the ECU is still good?
If the engine had to come out so did wire harness and if it ran fine before, so statistically speaking chance of blown ecu is next to nothing.


Make sure all grounds at intake manifold are good and no loose torn wires. Especially pulled pins at the back of the plug.

If i remember correctly ground is supplied through the the ecm and is not a dedicated sensor ground and some of the engine harness grounds are on the intake.

Check for pulled and damaged pins.

Lastly check continuity of wires from ecm pin to corresponding pin on the maf connector. If all those are good find a known good ecm to plug in.


Better yet, pull up a diagram of maf circuit and post it, my access to Allstate's been cut and fsm circulating the net lack electrical section.

Edit: i may be wrong but i THINK the maf harness is part of the fender-body harness, so if you have over-sized wheels make sure they didn't rub through.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #11
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I did a quick search for the MAF circuit wiring but didn't come up with anything. As for the tires, that's not an issue. I'm running proper tire size some I don't think that should be an issue.

Last edited by DeM3n; 12-13-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:44 AM   #12
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there is a ground on the intake manifold just in front of the turbo coolant tank...this one gets broken all the time....as does the one from the pitch stop mount on the firewall that goes tot the transmission case bolt...top second from the front
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:53 PM   #13
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Both of those were checked and both around grounded properly. The other ground on the intake manifold is also good.

I'm open to other ideas.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:59 PM   #14
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You have to check each wire from MAF to ECU. Tester lead on each end so obviously long leads or have them extended. If connection is good will have almost no resistance.

I'll try find a diagram but this is what you need to do now. Have to know the system bfr you can tackle it.


Or i guess if someone has an ecu close by swap it. But dont forget if there is a short you may fry the borrowed ECU as well(if yours is bad which it may not be). So i suggest taking the long way.
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Both of those were checked and both around grounded properly. The other ground on the intake manifold is also good.

I'm open to other ideas.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:05 PM   #15
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Have at it, Start probin

This is alldata sourced info so if wire colors dont match dont proceed, they are known to make mistakes. And Disconnect the battery.





Last edited by al_s14; 12-16-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:13 PM   #16
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B83 , b136 and B3 are connectors you need to focus on.

With maf unplugged key on 12v at b3-1 with key on.

Key off(important bc if you mix up a pin you can short something so triple check bfr you start sticking it);Good ground at B3-5. One lead at pin 5 and other end at intake or just about any point on engine or batt -. Just make sure surface is clean. Switch tester to Continuity so it beeps when all is good

Last edited by al_s14; 12-16-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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Thanks so much for the info. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:12 PM   #18
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Well, there's connectivity to the MAF from the ECM. Damn.

EDIT: My mechanic has been working on this car for me and he thinks it's the ECU/ECM for sure.

Last edited by DeM3n; 12-18-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #19
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So my mechanic tried the new ECU we borrowed and now the car won't even start. Not with my old one or the new one. Dang, this is such a headache.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:25 PM   #20
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Okay... since these noobs can't help you let me step in.


I've done an ENTIRE 2001 RS to 04 STI wire harness.... twice. I also build and create my own PCB boards for audio amplifiers. My headphone amp right now is $450 bucks.... so when i say i know wiring... i know wiring.



Soo.... answer me these questions cause your thread is very long.


1. Are you 100% sure you don't have a boost leak before your throttle body??? You're sure there is no broken rubber or piping that is loose? You're sure?


2. The reason your pedal doesn't work is only 1 of two reasons ... first... your ecu is busted and needs a reflash.... but MOST LIKELY you need a new drive by wire RELAY.

Have you tested your Drive by Wire relay? If not... get ready to take about your dash and get at it. I'm pretty sure that's the problem with your throttle.


3. The MAF wiring goes through the passenger side fire wall.. not the driver side fender.


4. Will it idle with the MAP unplugged. ( sorry if this was already asked. )


5. Clearly something is busted with the wiring... if push comes to shove. you will need to run new wiring from the ECU to the MAF. It isn't "hard" if you ask me.... but that will clear out ANY doubt that the connector is working.


Have you tried to swap out the connect it self? Cut the MAF connect like 5 inches from where it plugs in... and swap in a new one. easy.


pm me if i don't respond back in this thread.


-dan
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:22 PM   #21
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Best source of info I've found so far : ) Thanks!Merry Christmas
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:11 PM   #22
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As I bow down to the professional with a swap under his belt, I cant help but ask why you are telling a man to go in slicing wires and harness…after he told you it all checks out. While I can give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he did the tests correctly, I do question your state of mind as youre recommending going in and slicing **** left and right after receiving the above info…

A disconnected air hose or any leak will not cause an AIT code with a 40degree reading. Both maf and ait are same circuit. While a leak will cause lack of throttle response it will not cause the main problem at hand. Fix one problem at a time , especially if its as obvious as this here. Trust me, CEL is not a coincidence! Don’t go checking random **** it will only confuse an op with limited experience.

Without a doubt a good recommendation but not what he needs to do.


Clearly if he is assisting his mechanic in fixing the car…neither of them are qualified to work on it. No offense to the OP but you’re in over your head, at one point we all have to ask for help and the squirrel-net where everybody thinks they know what they are talking about is not the place to do it.

No tech will tell you he can fix a car over the phone. We will all tell you to bring your car in to the shop and we will go from there. Its that way for a reason. Nobody wants to go in after the owner tore half the car apart trying to fix it. THEN try figure out which is the actual problem and what was screwed up by the owner in process of trying to fix it. Its that simple, there is nothing else to discuss.

All this happened after someone rebuilt your engine. It is very hard for me to NOT think that its their hands work.

I am not here for a pissing contest, but the OP needs to call it quits! I am sorry someone has to say it.

Take your car to Subaru and pay them to fix it.


Edit; I was wrong about the fender harness part, but not entirely. The maf harness runs along the frame rail to the firewall ans is not part of the engine harness.

Maf has a direct wire to ECM and is not part of the engine harness. Starts at b3 and ends b136 while it gets power at main relay and ground at B83. While not very helpful its an info someone may find useful.

Last edited by al_s14; 12-22-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:59 AM   #23
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Al s4 no offense taken. I know I'm in over my head for sure as this is my first subie. Thanks a bunch for all the info as it's much appreciated.

To add another symptom my car won't even start now. I was able to borrow a friend's ecu and it still didn't help. Neither my ecu or my friend's will start the car.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:28 PM   #24
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Hello, I'm bumping this thread because it's in the 2.5l section and my 07 wrx is throwing the same codes. 85k, no mods besides a stage 1 tune. Spark plugs are good.

I recently swapped out my coilpack on cylinder 1 due to high amount of cylinder roughness and when I started it up it ran fine. Drove it a couple more times later that night and it turned over fine, idled nice, drove nice, etc. Then this morning I started it up and after about 5min of warming it up, it started getting rough again.

I cleaned the MAF and it didn't help. Checked the wires to make sure there's no kinks or anything and that they're all connected etc. and all looks good. Airbox is on correct. When I unplug the MAF it runs much smoother and I don't get any cylinder roughness on cylinder 1, but now I'm getting cylinder 1 again with the MAF plugged in and as soon as I start it up the numbers start climbing.

Opinions/suggestions?
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