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Old 12-13-2012, 09:35 PM   #1
freddy121389
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Default 350whp which way is best?

I have a dilemma, I have a 2011 wrx and I want 350whp next year. Just a fun daily driver with more kick. But I have a few scenarios that I can take to get to 350whp and I want input from everyone and their experiences. The only reason I'm really debating is because I am not removing the stock crash bar for a front mount (Looking into the racerx fmic). Anyway these are what I've come up so far as solutions to get my end goal. Also I'm in the military so I move around a lot so I'm looking for a said and done setup. Also I don't want to upgrade the engine block or the transmission so that's why I'm staying conservative at 350whp. The car will not be launched, drag raced, or road raced. It's my daily and I plan to keep it that way. I just like a fun car with an occasional WOT pull.

Current Power Mod List:
AEM CAI
TP Stage 2 Tune
Cobb Downpipe w/ Cobb Heatshield
PTP Lava Turbo Blanket

Next year I will be installing:
Cobb EBCS
DW65c Fuel Pump
Grimmspeed AOS

First Scenario:
Buy a hydra 2.7 from element tuning with new flex fuel mod
Upgrade injectors to DW1000
Go with racerx fmic
Get tuned on 93 and E85 on the hydra

Second Scenario:
Upgrade to a GT49 element tuning turbo
stay opensource
ProcessWest TMIC (Reason for this is because since i dont want to cut or remove the stock crash bar the racerx fmic has an adapter for an sti style flange turbo that looks absolutely ridiculous.)

Third Scenario:
? any suggestions are welcome, I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take that will be the most reliable and safest route.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:55 PM   #2
eronenris
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as far as i know once you get your ebcs all you need is an after market top mount and you should be good for 350whp...my tuner says all i need on top of my stage 2 set-up is an AVO or PW top mount and an ebcs and he can easily get me 350whp with a street tune.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:02 PM   #3
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I'm a fan of the Grimmspeed EBCS myself, but I know nothing about the Cobb. You'll hit 350whp on E85 and an EBCS (with your current mods as well), so I don't know your motives behind going with the hyrda ems...you won't need it to get to your power goal.

Adding headers will give you a bit more power as well, and a turbo inlet wouldn't hurt.

I was happier with the TMIC before I went FMIC, as it spooled better. The TurboXS also has a replacement beam if you do go FMIC.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eronenris View Post
as far as i know once you get your ebcs all you need is an after market top mount and you should be good for 350whp...my tuner says all i need on top of my stage 2 set-up is an AVO or PW top mount and an ebcs and he can easily get me 350whp with a street tune.
Uhmmm..... No. EBCS and a top mount with stage 2 upgrades won't get you much past 300whp on any dyno.

OP. 350whp can be achieved on the stock turbo. To get up to ~350whp, on top of your current upgrades you will need at least:

-TMIC (skip the FMIC)

-DW65C fuel pump

-ID 1000 injectors

-EBCS

-E85 tune
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:13 PM   #5
art@grimmspeed
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350 whp is fairly easy to attain on the new WRX's. let me know if you have any questions on our EBCS.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:32 PM   #6
freddy121389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
I'm a fan of the Grimmspeed EBCS myself, but I know nothing about the Cobb. You'll hit 350whp on E85 and an EBCS (with your current mods as well), so I don't know your motives behind going with the hyrda ems...you won't need it to get to your power goal.

Adding headers will give you a bit more power as well, and a turbo inlet wouldn't hurt.

I was happier with the TMIC before I went FMIC, as it spooled better. The TurboXS also has a replacement beam if you do go FMIC.
Reason for the hydra is because of the flex fuel mod. It can fuse a pump and e85 tune so if I'm driving I don't have to have a certain fuel level of pump before I can go to e85. I can just throw it in and have the hydra do the work automatically.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
Uhmmm..... No. EBCS and a top mount with stage 2 upgrades won't get you much past 300whp on any dyno.

OP. 350whp can be achieved on the stock turbo. To get up to ~350whp, on top of your current upgrades you will need at least:

-TMIC (skip the FMIC)

-DW65C fuel pump

-ID 1000 injectors

-EBCS

-E85 tune
Thats exactly what eronenris just said...add an ebcs and upgraded top mount and you're done...he knew OP was going E85 and larger injectors, and was stage 2 already
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
Uhmmm..... No. EBCS and a top mount with stage 2 upgrades won't get you much past 300whp on any dyno.

OP. 350whp can be achieved on the stock turbo. To get up to ~350whp, on top of your current upgrades you will need at least:

-TMIC (skip the FMIC)

-DW65C fuel pump

-ID 1000 injectors

-EBCS

-E85 tune

^ ^ ^
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post

Thats exactly what eronenris just said...add an ebcs and upgraded top mount and you're done...he knew OP was going E85 and larger injectors, and was stage 2 already
Only OPs first scenario included e85 according to his post ^^^, his others don't. So according to eronenris, OP can achieve 350whp on basic stage 2 mods without e85 supporting mods. Now if he would like to come backand either defend his claim or change his wording, I would agree with you. As it is, it reads wrong.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eronenris View Post
just going off what my tuner told me, i have not yet tried it so i don't know from experience. if it is wrong i am sorry.
It has the potential, but the stock fuel system can't support the power. So the fuel mods are necessary as well. Your tuner should have included this.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:33 PM   #11
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One thing I was told was that a 49lb/min turbo won't be enough with a top mount for 350whp. I should look into a 52lb/min but if a vf52 can get me 300whp I don't see why the gt49 wouldn't be enough on just pump alone. I think the tmic with gt49 just seems more promising as a starting point if I decide to build further.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
One thing I was told was that a 49lb/min turbo won't be enough with a top mount for 350whp. I should look into a 52lb/min but if a vf52 can get me 300whp I don't see why the gt49 wouldn't be enough on just pump alone. I think the tmic with gt49 just seems more promising as a starting point if I decide to build further.
You clearly have a solid plan all lined out for yourself. So why come here asking for advice?
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:51 PM   #13
freddy121389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post

You clearly have a solid plan all lined out for yourself. So why come here asking for advice?
I've done tons of research, asked tuners their opinion. Its just the way I am. You can never ask too many questions I like knowing all outcomes so I'm not surprised. There's tons of info and examples out there from other people and them building. These were the conclusions that I came to after all my research but I just wanted more input.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:00 AM   #14
RoadKillDMD
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Understood, just know this. It's pretty risky to run a larger turbo on a stock block. Especially 350whp on pump gas, it's only a matter of time before your motor pops. So if reliability is a concern, you may want to rethink your plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
Also I don't want to upgrade the engine block or the transmission so that's why I'm staying conservative at 350whp.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:31 AM   #15
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^ +1 also know that your tranny and clutch could be both going quick with that kinda added hp and tq (depending how you drive). Make sure you have a tranny and engine fund going if you decide to make the jump.


Also what kinda dyno are you trying to make 350 whp on?
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:41 AM   #16
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+1 for option 2 but with water to air tmic.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
Reason for the hydra is because of the flex fuel mod. It can fuse a pump and e85 tune so if I'm driving I don't have to have a certain fuel level of pump before I can go to e85. I can just throw it in and have the hydra do the work automatically.
I wouldnt switch to the hydra just for that. You use RR, go on that forum and dig up the thread from last month about adding flex fuel to the stock ecu. As someone who's tuned a car with a hydra, you don't want one.

And you sound pretty hands on, theres a much cheaper way to get an ebcs, exactly the same as the grimmspeed. Its just a $15 mac noid with a $4 connector on it and like $10 worth of fittings and tube.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:19 AM   #18
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I went through the same dilemma myself and will installing most of my upgrades this weekend.

Ended up with basically what Roadkillmd said, though I opted for the front mount because I realized the crash bar is only really useful in low speed accidents, and the FMS FMIC kit I bought has a replacement. I looked into the racerx fmic and saw it had some negative reviews, and the core is a whole lot smaller, which lead to my purchase of the FMS.

I have heard a lot of people that went FMIC say that they wished they had stayed with a top mount setup. I'll be able to comment on that myself after this weekend.

For your wants, have you looked at the DOM1.5xtr turbo? It spools awesomely and will comfortably make 350-360 whp on 93. I am leaning towards the 2.5 myself.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
Current Power Mod List:
AEM CAI
TP Stage 2 Tune
Cobb Downpipe w/ Cobb Heatshield
PTP Lava Turbo Blanket
Good start

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
Next year I will be installing:
Cobb EBCS
DW65c Fuel Pump
Grimmspeed AOS
This looks like the mandatory additions list. Regardless of which setup you choose I would surely add injectors to that list. Even at a "stage2" level on a good tune you'll see upwards of 90-95% IDC, so it's an obvious limiting factor. Buy a nice set of ID1000's regardless of which direction you go in, you will not regret it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
First Scenario:
Buy a hydra 2.7 from element tuning with new flex fuel mod
Upgrade injectors to DW1000
Go with racerx fmic
Get tuned on 93 and E85 on the hydra
I have no personal experience with the hydra, but of everyone I know that has run one virtually none of them would recommend it. If you are specifically looking at that engine management for the ability to run flex fuel it's just not worth it. How often do you really see yourself switching between E85 and pump gas? Why wouldn't you just buy a tactrix cable (or.... an AP I guess lol) and switch them maps yourself when (if) the time comes. DW Injectors are fine, especially now that they carry the Bosch 1000cc ones. Personally I'm an ID man, it's a proven product so you can't go wrong. There are many people that have run the RacerX FMIC with great results (up to and a bit past 400whp), but personally I'd rather get a quality top mount. The most important thing in this scenario would be a quality tune, so I hope (sounds like you did or will) you spend some time finding a quality tuner that stands behind his work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
Second Scenario:
Upgrade to a GT49 element tuning turbo
stay opensource
ProcessWest TMIC (Reason for this is because since i dont want to cut or remove the stock crash bar the racerx fmic has an adapter for an sti style flange turbo that looks absolutely ridiculous.)
This scenario seems like a bit of an over-kill for your goals, not to mention risking reliability more so then a stock tubro. It's just a little unnecessary if you plan to run E85. This would be a good option if you were restricted to only running pump gas (especially if you're stuck with 91oct).


Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
Third Scenario:
? any suggestions are welcome, I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take that will be the most reliable and safest route.

I think the scenario I'd recommend would be the first with the subtraction of the Hydra. Good luck and have fun.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentR View Post
I went through the same dilemma myself and will installing most of my upgrades this weekend.

Ended up with basically what Roadkillmd said, though I opted for the front mount because I realized the crash bar is only really useful in low speed accidents, and the FMS FMIC kit I bought has a replacement. I looked into the racerx fmic and saw it had some negative reviews, and the core is a whole lot smaller, which lead to my purchase of the FMS.

FYI you were HORRIBLY misinformed. The stock beam is part of an engineered crash system that ties into the unibody of the car to help prevent damage regardless of the speed. The "replacement beams" are in no way engineered with the rest of the system to provide any protection in the event of a collision. They are nothing more then a place to hold the fmic in place.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
One thing I was told was that a 49lb/min turbo won't be enough with a top mount for 350whp. I should look into a 52lb/min but if a vf52 can get me 300whp I don't see why the gt49 wouldn't be enough on just pump alone. I think the tmic with gt49 just seems more promising as a starting point if I decide to build further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
You clearly have a solid plan all lined out for yourself. So why come here asking for advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
I've done tons of research, asked tuners their opinion. Its just the way I am. You can never ask too many questions I like knowing all outcomes so I'm not surprised. There's tons of info and examples out there from other people and them building. These were the conclusions that I came to after all my research but I just wanted more input.
I think (I hope at least) that RoadKillDMD was being a little sarcastic.

There is a whole lot of wrong information in this thread.

If you want 350whp, you're not going to get it on the v52, even with e85. A handful of people have come close (pushed 340whp), but haven't reached 350 whp on the vf52 with every single bolt on known to man and e85 with a tune that is pushing the limits. Could you manipulate a dyno to read 350whp? Yup. I guess you could get it that way if you want.

Whoever told you that (bolded) you can't reach 350 whp with a top mount is honestly retarded (with a 49lb turbo to boot!). IDC if it was a tuner or baby jesus himself. Retarded. TONS of people have been getting 350whp and well above that on smaller turbos and pump 93 only for a LONG TIME. Heck, go look at Xluben (very popular on here), hes making over 470whp on a 20gxtr (48lb/ min turbo, aka smaller than the gt49) on e85, granted it is with a fmic, but he would probably be making at least 450whp with a nice top mount. My point is, your turbo (gt49) is MORE than enough to reach 350whp on 93 pump and a top mount intercooler. You could get a 44 lb/min old school 20g turbo and make 350whp with a top mount pretty easily (20-21 psi) on 93 pump.

I have no idea where you are doing your research or what tuners you have asked, but you clearly need to do more. First off, there are a TON of other turbo options out there for you to consider (smaller, with quicker spool!) that will get you 350whp.

I know this may seem like some tough love, but I hate it when I see people misinformed who are about to go drop tons of money. I don't want to see you wasting money on a terrible setup for your goals. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions and if I cant answer them myself, I can/ will help you find the answer elsewhere.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtarr07 View Post
First off, there are a TON of other turbo options out there for you to consider (smaller, with quicker spool!) that will get you 350whp.
Like an EFR6758.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
I have a dilemma, I have a 2011 wrx and I want 350whp next year. Just a fun daily driver with more kick. But I have a few scenarios that I can take to get to 350whp and I want input from everyone and their experiences. The only reason I'm really debating is because I am not removing the stock crash bar for a front mount (Looking into the racerx fmic). Anyway these are what I've come up so far as solutions to get my end goal. Also I'm in the military so I move around a lot so I'm looking for a said and done setup. Also I don't want to upgrade the engine block or the transmission so that's why I'm staying conservative at 350whp. The car will not be launched, drag raced, or road raced. It's my daily and I plan to keep it that way. I just like a fun car with an occasional WOT pull.

Current Power Mod List:
AEM CAI
TP Stage 2 Tune
Cobb Downpipe w/ Cobb Heatshield
PTP Lava Turbo Blanket

Next year I will be installing:
Cobb EBCS (why, is there something this ebcs can do a hallman mbc cant)
DW65c Fuel Pump
Grimmspeed AOS

First Scenario:
Buy a hydra 2.7 from element tuning with new flex fuel mod (Why..besides phill who do you know that can tune a Hydra, and why is it you belive you need Hydra ems)

Upgrade injectors to DW1000
Go with racerx fmic
Get tuned on 93 and E85 on the hydra (e85 where navy annex, otherwise where?)

Second Scenario:
Upgrade to a GT49 element tuning turbo (why gt 49)
stay opensource (this is a better idea, or go with more mainstream ems)
ProcessWest TMIC (Reason for this is because since i dont want to cut or remove the stock crash bar the racerx fmic has an adapter for an sti style flange turbo that looks absolutely ridiculous.) uh okay

Third Scenario:
? any suggestions are welcome, I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take that will be the most reliable and safest route.
Run straight 93
hallman mbc
accesport, open source
modify stock injectors and have them flow tested
38mm ewg up pipe kit (since i assume you are still on stock up pipe)
electronic cutout (since i assume you are running stock cbe)
Look at kinugawa, or OG FP Green or put together easy rotated setup (i.e. Holset hx35 cuz its cheap even brand new, rotated dp, up adaptor or rotated up pipe)
turbo inlet
meth if you wanna
Find parts used and do your homework/ thread

*Safe and reliable depend on THE INSTALL, YOUR DRIVING STYLE,QUALITY OF PRODUCT and the TUNE.....nuttin else.

P.S> what are you going to do about a clutch? Get rid of some of that dead weight........light weight crank pully, lightweigh flywheel, remove spare tire, take of the under brace, ditch front bumper beam.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:25 AM   #24
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Why would you ever run an MCB when you have the ability to use closed loop boost control? Thats like buying a subaru and replacing the awd with a solid rear axle.

You can modify the new model stock injectors? Forget that, tuning any kind of EV14 setup is a dream, they really are that much better than the older style of injectors.

Every electric cutout ever made by humans, robots, or mythical creatures will leak.

How do you run a turbo inlet with a rotated setup?
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:28 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Why would you ever run an MCB when you have the ability to use closed loop boost control? Thats like buying a subaru and replacing the awd with a solid rear axle.

You can modify the new model stock injectors? Forget that, tuning any kind of EV14 setup is a dream, they really are that much better than the older style of injectors.

Every electric cutout ever made by humans, robots, or mythical creatures will leak.

How do you run a turbo inlet with a rotated setup?
Dude, I think you're the only one in here with any common sense. This thread is full of Simple Jack.

OP, go buy a Kia and drive it to 100k miles.
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