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Old 09-20-2002, 04:21 PM   #1
flat4gtguy
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Default When do I need to replace my water pump?

I got about 75000 miles on my 99legacy.
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Old 09-20-2002, 04:29 PM   #2
shogunate83
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When you do your timing belt
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Old 09-20-2002, 07:52 PM   #3
Hondaslayer
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You dont have to unlees its leaking. You can do it when you do your T-belt but its a bit of overkill as i have seen some with over 300k on em with the original pump :shrug:
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Old 09-20-2002, 08:21 PM   #4
Stanley
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the ratioinale behind replacing the water pump when doing the timing belt is that the part is relatively inexpesive when compared to the labor involved.
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Old 09-20-2002, 11:35 PM   #5
ciper
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Replace the water pump at every second timing belt.

edit: That was for 60k. I should have said every 120k miles
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Old 09-21-2002, 07:35 PM   #6
munkis
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IIRC its five extra bolts...and about 15 more minutes to change when doing a timing belt, why not do it at every belt change...

I always recomend it.

Jay McDade
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Old 09-22-2002, 06:26 AM   #7
hotrod
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Default If it ain't broke don't fix it

The reason not to do it at every belt change is that it is unnessary work, a waste of money.

I would not do business with a mechanic that used fear of future failure to sell unnecessary repairs.

Most water pumps will out last the engine. I've been driving for 35 years and replaced like 3 water pumps out of about 15 different cars I've owned.

Larry

ps I have 178,000 miles on my 88 subie and still on the original water pump.
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Old 09-22-2002, 05:50 PM   #8
MrHorspwer
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So I am a bad tech for recommending a service that may save my customers a bunch of money in the future, at a small cost today?

A while back, GM's 3.1 was having carbon build-up problems in the EGR passage, eventually plugging the passage and destroying the valve... this happened on many cars, but not all, usually based on driving conditions/style. They also had injector problems... which almost always surfaced before the EGR problems. By your ideas, I should have not mentioned the EGR problem to my customers while I have in plenum off replacing the injectors. I should, instead, let the problem go unmentioned and some miles down the road, when the passage is blocked and valve is destroyed, charge them for a new valve and the labor to remove the plenum again and clear the passage($300+ for the valve + 2-3 hours labor to clean)? When I could have charged them a half hour labor when I had the plenum off the first time to clear the passage? Now which scenario makes me a worse person?
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Old 09-22-2002, 07:25 PM   #9
hotrod
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Default Depends on how it is presented

Quote:
So I am a bad tech for recommending a service that may save my customers a bunch of money in the future, at a small cost today?

We are not talking about some known problem on a GM product but a highly reliable accessory componet that routinely lives for the full life of the engine.


Depends on how you present the option. If you try to "sell" a water pump everytime you replace belts -- Yes your trying to rip off your customers. Good business in that it is a high profit, low overhead repair for you, and the customer likely as not, will never complain.

If you honestly pose the option, that the water pump will likely last well over 100,000 miles and by changing it your just as likely to create a new problem with gasket leaks, or a bad "new replacement" as you are to save them money in the long run.

Then I would find it acceptable. Please note that I said if the tech used:

Quote:
fear of future failure

If the customer goes home worried that the water pump is a high failure item, then you have done them a disservice in my opinion.


That is why most electronic stores push extended service contracts so hard. They are huge money makers. In essence the customer is gambling and the only way he can win is if the product fails early. Over all they seldom do. If you add up all the money folks spend trying to protect themselves from unlikely failures, they could easily pay out of pocket for any problems.


Keep a car for 150,000+ miles you change the cam belts 3 times, the cost of 3 water pumps under you "cost saving repair option" would about equal the cost of an emergency repair of a water pump, which by the way could include a belt change because this is a "known" wear replacement item. In this case you only lose the small amount of good milage remaining in the current set of drive belts if the water pump fails.


As folks in the computer industry know all too well, every time you make changes you introduce a very real chance of failure. When you work in a data center you quickly realize that almost every server failure is traceable to some "improvement" a system administrator made. I've seen the same with car repairs.


Larry

Last edited by hotrod; 09-22-2002 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 09-23-2002, 09:01 PM   #10
ciper
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Here is a short story.

Just bought my mom a legacy! I replaced oil pump, water pump, timing belt, and tensioner, all front seals alternator/ps belt, ac belt, thermo stat and both coolant hoses.

You know why? The labor increase over just the timing belt was MINIMAL and now I dont have to worry about my mom having a problem.

I ordered all the parts from subaruparts.com and with some other random parts it was less than 500 dollars (cheap to me).
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Old 09-23-2002, 10:43 PM   #11
cptplt
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dunno about Subaru boxer engines and water pumps failing, though I had a 92 Legacy whose pump was leaking at 75K and needed replacing. But i've had a Civic and I had an Integra whose water pumps failed at 75K and 90K and the engine overheated and was toast - unless you like that cappucino look in your radiator and no power! I would say that if you have a Honda and they tell you (like they always do with Hondas ) to change the pump with the timing belt at 60K it may be very wise insurance because it was advice I disregarded at extremely high cost to myself later!
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:17 AM   #12
Joe Longworth
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Could someone please tell me why timing belt replacement is common at 60k? I'm staring at a maintenance schedule for my 99 RS (california) and it clearly says every 105k.
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Old 09-24-2002, 03:45 AM   #13
armand1
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Quote:
I'm staring at a maintenance schedule for my 99 RS (california) and it clearly says every 105k
The California legislature IIIW passed a law specifying that certain automobile systems (pollution-related?) had to last at least 100k miles. Timing belts fall under this law, so even though the belt is the same in all 50 states, Subaru (and Mazda, too, perhaps others) list the timing belt as a 100k or 105k mile item in the California manual, with 60k mile "inspection", but as a 60k mile replacement item in the standard, non-California manual.
My Miata has a non-interference design, so no big deal if the belt breaks; does anyone know if the Subaru boxer is a non-interference design?
Anyway, I just had the timing belt changed at 94k on my Miata because the evidence pointed to no replacement at 60k by the PO, and the water pump was showing signs of early failure when checked; seems like the suggestion of replacing the pump every 2 timing belt changes is a good one.
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