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Old 12-17-2012, 03:19 PM   #26
Gixhost
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I think this comes down to you and the reality of the vehicles future. I am in the process of performing the 05+ hub swap on my 04 STi and am collecting parts. While researching this swap, many people throw out the idea that you should merely sell the car and get a newer STi.

If I was made of money, maybe that would be an option...

If I could find a used STi that I knew was maintained and was treated the way I treat my car...again maybe that would be an option.

As it sits, these cars are usually abused, modified/returned to stock. Many privately owned ones come with a good story that isn't true and dealers are asking top dollar for cars in good shape...even then you should probably opt for an extended warranty. Well kept privately owned vehicles usually command top dollar and you still don't know what you're getting compared to what you already own.

With that said...I've already come to the determination that I plan on keeping this car and potentially doing what it takes to keep it on the road when the time comes, if you don't plan on keeping this car and money is a concern I'd say forget about it...I am not interested in getting my money back from the car in the future...most people know that rarely happens. I've seen so many heavily modified WRX/STis and seen how the benefits of owning an STi don't always shine through when you're talking about modified car comparisons.

At the end of the day its your money and you'll get a lot of feedback which you should take into consideration...but you're the one living with the final decision. GL.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #27
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Yeah good point. I plan on keeping the car for a long time so maybe the swap is the better choice.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugeye386 View Post
It's not really all out, just a little bigger turbo and a solid amount of power. I figure that the goal of 325 whp/tq should be pretty safe on the stock block. And the STI motor is basically the same as mine so that doesn't really factor into the equation it doesn't seem like. If the motor was stronger it would be a lot different because i'd like to have some more headroom to make power without building the motor but that's not really an option
You have quite a bit of reading to do if you think the 255 and 257 blocks (short or long) are the same. While the wrx-TR has the same displacement as the STI they are nowhere near the same. Also your hp/tq goal with current mods isnt that far off may want to look into a different tuner though to help to attain that goal.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by NOT_2_SLOW View Post
You have quite a bit of reading to do if you think the 255 and 257 blocks (short or long) are the same. While the wrx-TR has the same displacement as the STI they are nowhere near the same. Also your hp/tq goal with current mods isnt that far off may want to look into a different tuner though to help to attain that goal.
aside from pistons (and a nitride treated crank) the bottom ends are identical.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:33 PM   #30
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pistons/dishes rods crank cams forged and cast blah blah blah.. end of story they are not the same
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:36 PM   #31
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pistons/dishes rods crank cams forged and cast blah blah blah.. end of story they are not the same
you're wrong.

rods are the same. wrist pins are the same. everything in the bottom end is identical except for the treated crank + pistons. The heads are different, but thats not what I said.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:43 PM   #32
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your wrong!!

They are not identical then!!

they are similar not identical end of story
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:45 PM   #33
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Is there more power headroom on a stock Sti block? Most say the limit is 350 wheel before you are at pretty significant risk of ring land etc failure. And you're right, I haven't really looked into the differences because I didn't think it made much difference power or power handling wise.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:53 PM   #34
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i buy cars new and keep for a loooong time. Helps with the where did my $$ go? question. Bought my wrx new and now has 200k on the chassis, 130 on the 6 spd and 30k on the re-built motor. Expect to get 300k on the chassis/16 yrs.

modded for past 9 years and is exactly where I want it...better than wrx or sti.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:28 PM   #35
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Tough question.

I may be completely wrong but......

in your year transmission wouldn't RA Gears be a decent alternative and good to your HP goals for a much more reasonable price?

OR is '06 the first year the Legacy gears were put in?

Just curious more than anything as I don't really know.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by slowdown View Post
Tough question.

I may be completely wrong but......

in your year transmission wouldn't RA Gears be a decent alternative and good to your HP goals for a much more reasonable price?

OR is '06 the first year the Legacy gears were put in?

Just curious more than anything as I don't really know.
The LGT gears weren't put in until 08+. But this raises a good question. Why are you so set on a 6-speed swap? If you're only going for 325 to the wheels, I don't see why swapping the gearset to RA or something similar wouldn't be an option. It would be a lot cheaper too.

I would recommend doing some research (call Andrewtech, Rallispec, etc.) and see what options there are for your 5-speed. I've heard quotes of less than half of what you're estimating it would take for your 6-speed swap to get a new gearset in your transmission.

To be honest, a stock 5-speed would probably hold 325 WHP for a long time if you drive it gingerly (don't get on it until it's in gear). But you should ask the pros (Andrewtech) about that.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:43 PM   #37
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I am leaning towards 6 speed cause I don't want to have to worry about it. Yeah it would probably last for a while... Who knows? I don't want to get down the road, spend some money on a turbo/inj/tune and then blow the trans and be SOL. And from what I've read the RA gears aren't much stronger than stock and I don't want a 5 speed with close ratios like that. I'm sick of waiting for the 5 speed to catch up when trying to drive "spirited". My buddy has had 2 sti's and can shift twice as fast and doesn't have to worry about it. The 1-2 shift in the 5 speed is painfully slow, and I would love to get a box that let me shift faster and have peace of mind. That's why I'm leaning to the 6
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:45 PM   #38
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BTW what's the point of 325whp if you have to drive it "gingerly"? Not attacking you, just my point of view.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:48 PM   #39
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IMHO, I would swap the gears with LGT gears to save money if I knew that I wouldn't go nuts on the power. Then again I would contact Andrewtech Automotive to see what my options were.


...but that's just me. I don't know about you.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:31 PM   #40
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I contacted Andrewtech a while back about PPGs. The way I figure it, PPG's installed are about 4K. For that I could have a 6 speed with ALL better diffs and DCCD. Could go with other gears but I have seen a number of "broke XXX gear" in built 5 speeds. Almost never see a broken 6 speed. And I feel the same about the LGT gears as I do the RA. As long as I'm gonna pay to crack the case open and put in new gears, wouldn't I want to basically guarantee that they wont break at the power I'm looking for? Because that's what I would get with a 6 provided I don't drive like a complete idiot which I won't. Thanks for the opinions though I do appreciate the input.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:49 PM   #41
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Just have to do the $ math and see which is the greater value TO YOU. Keep in mind, there is more to an STi than just the transmission.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:17 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugeye386 View Post
Just wondering opinions/input here. I have an 06 wrx tr (50k on the clock) with the following mods:
vf39
STi tmic
GM BCS
Open ECU tune
Spt turboback
hacked intake box
Megan racing coilovers
rota torqe r with 245 re01r's
new head unit and small sub

I want to replace the trans and eventually get a little bigger turbo like an 18g or 20g down the road. I'm worried about the 5 speed right now and don't want to be surprised by it breaking and would rather replace it now and be able to sell my 5 speed cause it is in perfect shape right now. The trans swap would include:
6 speed trans/linkage
sti drive shaft
6 speed clutch and flywheel
dccd controller and switches
r180 and hybrid axles
I estimate that this will cost around 3500 to 4000 to get all this stuff. I can probably get 1200 back for the 5 speed/driveshaft/r160 i think.
I love my WRX now and like the wheels/suspension etc. My question is whether I should invest in this trans swap or just sell my car and put the money towards buying an STi. I'd want an 04 to 07 STi i think, with lower miles similar to what I have on my WRX now. Plus I don't think I can afford anything 08+. I'm looking for all suggestions and comments so lets hear em.
Thanks a lot
I was in a similar position. Except I had/have more mods than you, but was thinking of selling my car and getting an STI, mainly for the 6spd and brakes. I started pricing 6spd swap vs unmolested used STI cost. I also factored in the mods I'd want for the STI. I couldn't possible keep it stock. And parts for a STI cost a lot more than the same mod does for a WRX. For example, I track my car so I put on 4/2 pots off an 06 WRX. Pads and rotors are significantly cheaper for those than they are for the Brembos. And, I basically go through a set of pads and front rotors just about every event. I like going deep before getting on the binders.
Then, there aren't many used stock STI's out there. Also, I'd owned my WRX 5 yrs, did the mods myself, and knew the car inside and out. I wouldn't have that piece of mind on the maintenance with a used STI.
Unfortunately, during my next track event my 3rd gear went kaboom. So my decision was made for me. I opted for the 6 spd because I love my set up (vf34/ susp mods), know the car, and spending money for another 5 spd that could eventually break didn't seem worth it. I plan on keeping the car a long time.
I found a low mileage 07 STI 6spd. I had a student with a 06 and the gears are way short. Driving on the street they seemed short, but once on the track, the shorter gears were just too much. You better get proficient at heal/toe downshifts if you run a 04-06 gearbox.
I'm glad I had that experience. The 07 gears are still short when comparing to driving a 5spd, but not so much that they are annoying. It's quite easy to keep it in the meat of the powerband and you aren't constantly banging off the rev limiter. And, I still get 26.5mpg on the freeway using CC at 75mph.

SO, if you plan on keeping your car, know you won't get the money out that you invest in, have done all the proper maintenance and know your car is a good solid foundation...then get yourself a 6 spd. You definitely won't be unhappy with it. It can be done fairly inexpensive.
06/07 6spds have the same 3.90 final drive. You an do the swap with just the tranny, shift fork, driveshaft, shift linkage, axle stub adaptors, adaptor for rear diff to R160, and a new neutral position switch. I'd recommend a STI clutch and flywheel but it isn't a necessity. If you have a newer clutch in your WRX just run it. Probably a few small parts I'm not mentioning, but overall you don't need to convert your hubs/brakes/axles and all that jazz.

One of the best parts of the 6spd, and something that never even crossed my mind, the front LSD. Holy crap, not having that open front diff allows the car to pull out of corners soooooo much better.

On the flip side, since you have a sedan and your mods aren't anything difficult to duplicate and/or already come on a STi, if you can find a good deal on a 07 STi you'd save yourself downtime and potential other issues.

Just my very long winded .02.

Last edited by 575rider; 12-18-2012 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:26 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugeye386 View Post
I am leaning towards 6 speed cause I don't want to have to worry about it. Yeah it would probably last for a while... Who knows? I don't want to get down the road, spend some money on a turbo/inj/tune and then blow the trans and be SOL. And from what I've read the RA gears aren't much stronger than stock and I don't want a 5 speed with close ratios like that. I'm sick of waiting for the 5 speed to catch up when trying to drive "spirited". My buddy has had 2 sti's and can shift twice as fast and doesn't have to worry about it. The 1-2 shift in the 5 speed is painfully slow, and I would love to get a box that let me shift faster and have peace of mind. That's why I'm leaning to the 6
I was told by Rallispec that the gears were only "marginally" stronger than the Legacy GT gearset in my 2012 WRX. But if I still had my '04 and wanted more HP then the RA gearset would have been "considerably" stronger than that generation.

Pretty sure you would get a gearset very capable of 325whp for about 1/4 the cost of a 6 speed swap if you went that route. I think you get two options on ratios so you can pick the 1-2 blend that fits your liking + short throw and clutch upgrade and you are much improved.

However - since you seem dead set on a 6 speed I say do a swap. I would never be comfortable buying a used WRX or STI b/c you never know what it went through.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:59 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdown

I was told by Rallispec that the gears were only "marginally" stronger than the Legacy GT gearset in my 2012 WRX. But if I still had my '04 and wanted more HP then the RA gearset would have been "considerably" stronger than that generation.

Pretty sure you would get a gearset very capable of 325whp for about 1/4 the cost of a 6 speed swap if you went that route. I think you get two options on ratios so you can pick the 1-2 blend that fits your liking + short throw and clutch upgrade and you are much improved.

However - since you seem dead set on a 6 speed I say do a swap. I would never be comfortable buying a used WRX or STI b/c you never know what it went through.
RA gears aren't much stronger than even the old 5 speeds.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:31 PM   #45
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RA gears aren't much stronger than even the old 5 speeds.
That's kinda what is heard as well. Not worth the install cost to me anyway. I want something that's over capacity so I don't have to worry
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:45 PM   #46
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could you please fill out your profile. location might also help cuz certain regions have more subaru selection, i.e. im moving to lousiana and there arent a lot of subarus there
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:25 PM   #47
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A few assumptions:

1) cars will always be an expense and never a profit (at least for most of us)
2) spread expense out as long as possible.
3) you're here because you have a fun car and like to drive it
4) "fun" increases with mods.

Mine bought new in 03 and is to me perfect. Def huge fun factor. And expect to get 300k chassis miles out of the car as follows...current miles on chassis 195k/6spd 110k/motor 40k.

My answer to OP's question: Find a body style you like and also find a good buy wrx and Sti. Do the math to mod either. Decide what's best for you and your budget. Buy it, mod it to your satisfaction. Keep for a long time. Will be better than oem.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:32 PM   #48
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Excellent discussion, I have an 02 wrx wagon that just got an ej207 engine swap. Tuned and working avcs is in the 300 foot pounds of torque to the wheels. I'm a bit nervous about my glassy 5 speed. I'm having fun with all the power but been careful shifting and certainly not launching it. I realize at some point I'll have to deal with the transmission and will have to decide if a 6 speed swap or rebuild 5 speed. My car is a toy, I love it, has 192,000 miles but is well looked after. I plan on always having it, will never sell it. It's my dd, I commute on it, don't want lower gearing as to keep it in the 28 mpg's range. Subscribing to your thread, curious to see what you decide.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:28 PM   #49
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everyone always trashes the wrx 5 speed.... i have had two wrx's now and no transmission problems.


Quote:
I would never be comfortable buying a used WRX or STI b/c you never know what it went through.
true statement bought my first wrx and two weeks later the CEL came on and had 2 pistons with cracked ringlands, and it was used so no warranty.

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Old 12-22-2012, 10:40 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dmochowski View Post
everyone always trashes the wrx 5 speed.... i have had two wrx's now and no transmission problems.
How much power are you putting down? It's a lot about how you drive but with the power you can make even on a stock block the 5 speed becomes a liability
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