Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 2, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2012, 06:23 PM   #51
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

You know what... whatever floats your boat. My argument was about the engineering, the counter-arguments seem to be about MotorTrend magazine racing or personal opinions of the performance. Can't argue personal opinions. I'll just leave these quotes here (opinions from others) if that's what we want to argue:

The LFA Nurburgring Package is the only car ever to have lapped Nurburgring in less than 7:20 without racing compound super-slick competition tires such as Michelin Pilot Cup tires or Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires (from Wikipedia)

Top Gear had also hailed the LFA as the "greatest high-performance supercar ever from Japan."

Clarkson sums up his experience in the LFA by saying "I have to say I absolutely love it."

The magazine (Motor Trend) wrote, "In fact, the LFA hits 100 mph four-tenths faster than the GT-R -- and just keeps going. As both flash past the quarter-mile marker, the LFA never looks back". The magazine also found the LFA to be superior in dynamic handling.

Edmunds' Insideline managed to acquire a LFA from Lexus for one week and tested the LFA against the Porsche GT2 RS on the track including an impromptu grudge match on the drag strip. Both cars won 2 races each making it a draw.

Evo UK called LFA a "very very special car" and praised the engine as "extraordinarily stunning V10 that is only comparable to the V10 in Porsche Carrera GT".

Chris Harris also noted "there is nothing else out there that has ever felt this special since the Macca F1". (vs 10 Best cars)

Evo said, "Both cars feel sensational, but it's the Lexus that displays greater body motion control, traction and progressive on-limit breakaway, never once grazing the road with its belly despite countless pre-emptive grimaces from Green and myself. The Ferrari is the wilder ride, uttering the odd skrrrsh from a few bits of sacrificial plastic and breakaway traction, but it is still grin inducing fun". In the end they awarded the win to Lexus LFA. (vs. 599 GTO)

"[The LFA] zings between hairpins and then peels cleanly into them, front end assured, but never artificially pointy and the rear noticeably wants to edge just a few degreess wide as the V10 feeds the rear tires with its buzzsaw power". In the end in terms of sheer driving enjoyment, the editors were clear that Lexus LFA was the more enjoyable car of the two" (vs. the Aventador)

Their comments on LFA were "The Lexus feels more athletic than the Ferrari, and its performance is more accessible, more immediately. The engine is remarkable. Austin noted: “They  figured out the engine. It’s really strong, and then you hit about 6500 rpm and your eyes get all big as the power hits another level.” The only street-car engine that matches this one for smoothness, ecstatic noise, and power delivery is the 458 Italia’s". The conclusion of Car and Driver was "if Lexus puts this much passion in every one of its cars, it will simply be unbeatable." (Car & Driver, vs. the 599 GTB w/ Track Package)
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by manticus; 12-19-2012 at 06:45 PM.
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:23 PM   #52
424wrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171948
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: new york
Vehicle:
08 wrx vf52,stg3
11 forester,14 legacy dd

Default

it is a beautiful car with an amazing engine sound. way too expensive though.
424wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:25 PM   #53
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

It's a freaking Toyota!!! If you want a real performance car you need to get a comaro.
mhoward1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:54 PM   #54
neko
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46500
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Idaho
Vehicle:
'04 FXT & '98 L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
It's a freaking Toyota!!! If you want a real performance car you need to get a comaro.
Gotta spell it right first.
neko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #55
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
** Ring Time of
7:43.5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
You know what... whatever floats your boat. My argument was about the engineering, the counter-arguments seem to be about MotorTrend magazine racing or personal opinions of the performance. Can't argue personal opinions. I'll just leave these quotes here (opinions from others) if that's what we want to argue:

The LFA Nurburgring Package is the only car ever to have lapped Nurburgring in less than 7:20 without racing compound super-slick competition tires such as Michelin Pilot Cup tires or Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires (from Wikipedia)

Top Gear had also hailed the LFA as the "greatest high-performance supercar ever from Japan."

Clarkson sums up his experience in the LFA by saying "I have to say I absolutely love it."

The magazine (Motor Trend) wrote, "In fact, the LFA hits 100 mph four-tenths faster than the GT-R -- and just keeps going. As both flash past the quarter-mile marker, the LFA never looks back". The magazine also found the LFA to be superior in dynamic handling.

Edmunds' Insideline managed to acquire a LFA from Lexus for one week and tested the LFA against the Porsche GT2 RS on the track including an impromptu grudge match on the drag strip. Both cars won 2 races each making it a draw.

Evo UK called LFA a "very very special car" and praised the engine as "extraordinarily stunning V10 that is only comparable to the V10 in Porsche Carrera GT".

Chris Harris also noted "there is nothing else out there that has ever felt this special since the Macca F1". (vs 10 Best cars)

Evo said, "Both cars feel sensational, but it's the Lexus that displays greater body motion control, traction and progressive on-limit breakaway, never once grazing the road with its belly despite countless pre-emptive grimaces from Green and myself. The Ferrari is the wilder ride, uttering the odd skrrrsh from a few bits of sacrificial plastic and breakaway traction, but it is still grin inducing fun". In the end they awarded the win to Lexus LFA. (vs. 599 GTO)

"[The LFA] zings between hairpins and then peels cleanly into them, front end assured, but never artificially pointy and the rear noticeably wants to edge just a few degreess wide as the V10 feeds the rear tires with its buzzsaw power". In the end in terms of sheer driving enjoyment, the editors were clear that Lexus LFA was the more enjoyable car of the two" (vs. the Aventador)

Their comments on LFA were "The Lexus feels more athletic than the Ferrari, and its performance is more accessible, more immediately. The engine is remarkable. Austin noted: “They  figured out the engine. It’s really strong, and then you hit about 6500 rpm and your eyes get all big as the power hits another level.” The only street-car engine that matches this one for smoothness, ecstatic noise, and power delivery is the 458 Italia’s". The conclusion of Car and Driver was "if Lexus puts this much passion in every one of its cars, it will simply be unbeatable." (Car & Driver, vs. the 599 GTB w/ Track Package)
More opinion:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2445581

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=m5_AKjDdqaU


Nurburgring version slower than extinct Viper.

I guess it is like the NSX, enjoyable to drive at a slower pace than everyone else.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:20 AM   #56
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
More opinion:


Nurburgring version slower than extinct Viper.

I guess it is like the NSX, enjoyable to drive at a slower pace than everyone else.
Haha, lulz. You taking this personally? It's ok if you don't like it - you don't have to prove it to anyone but yourself.
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:47 AM   #57
AllAWD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17079
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Alexandria, VA
Default

I guess some people are just looking for a car to measure their dick with.

I'd buy an LFA if I was uber rich and just look at all the little details with a sick obsession. It's like buying a fine watch more than a car. I'm such a sucker for mechanical things.
AllAWD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 06:15 AM   #58
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neko View Post
Gotta spell it right first.
I struggled to spell it that way. The phone kept trying to fix it with the real word Camaro or replace it with camera. Stupid phone trying to ruin the joke.
mhoward1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 08:18 AM   #59
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 424wrx View Post
it is a beautiful car with an amazing engine sound. way too expensive though.
It's the cheapest car of its construction ever made. If you judged all exotics on performance/$$$ they'd all be crappy.

Awesome car, awesome engineering which will hopefully lead to even cheaper composite cars in the future.
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #60
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
Lexus tried to create a niche market to the likes of One-77, GT3RS4.0, Reventon, Ferrari XX line; but they don't have any heritage that creates brand loyalists, who are willing to drop any amount at the drop of a hat. Instead Lexus created a decent performing car that is grossly over-priced which can be mistaken for an FRS, and there is not service at the level of other cars in this price bracket offered at Lexus dealers; but Lexus continued to market the car at a level it never reached.

Not impressed.
And yet they sold EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM

sorry bud, usually we see eye to eye, but this time we have to be on opposing sides..



turn an fire!
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:19 AM   #61
Euclid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 41846
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salt Lake
Vehicle:
both 05 LGT, 08 STI
black and white

Default

Lexus didn't seem to have a problem selling every LF-A they produced. Seems like their marketing plan of creating a niche market car worked very well.
Euclid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:20 AM   #62
Euclid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 41846
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salt Lake
Vehicle:
both 05 LGT, 08 STI
black and white

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
And yet they sold EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM

sorry bud, usually we see eye to eye, but this time we have to be on opposing sides..



turn an fire!

My guess is the rebuttal is something like "well if it was so successful why did they stop making it!"
Euclid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:34 AM   #63
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid View Post
My guess is the rebuttal is something like "well if it was so successful why did they stop making it!"
The plan was 500 units from day one
mhoward1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:03 PM   #64
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
** Ring Time of
7:43.5

Default

It's not very hard to sell 500 cars.

The LFA doesn't do one thing better than any of it's competition (more or less expensive). But the marketing for the LFA hypes up every aspect of it, to an illogical level (consistent with H2/H3 marketing). But if someone is looking for a $400k car and wants the engine in front, but not a ferrari, only goes to C&C events, talk about the rarity of the specific car (color, options, etc), and wants to get an IS/toyota when in for service, it's a good buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
It's the cheapest car of its construction ever made. If you judged all exotics on performance/$$$ they'd all be crappy.
MP4-12C costs more than LFA????
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:11 PM   #65
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2013 STI Sport-tech

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
And yet they sold EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM
No kidding. All 500 accounted for by the world. McLaren sells more cars than that annually.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:38 PM   #66
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Well they planned to make 500 and they sold them. Job done. Was the car a success? Only time will tell if it had an impact large enough to make a bow wave in the market.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:55 PM   #67
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
MP4-12C costs more than LFA????
They're not of the same construction. Yes, they both have a carbon central tub with aluminum f/r subframes. However, the LFAs is a full carbon cage (pillars, roof, etc.) The McLarens is just a lower tub... a single piece, press-formed unit. And the LFA's body is also carbon, vs. aluminum and plastic on the McLaren.

Think of it as an SLR vs. an MP4.

Beyond that, design on the LFA started in 2000, 8 years before the McLaren. I think the Mc. is also a revolutionary car too, and I think you'll find others will follow suit with its construction. But it's a much cheap car to build than the LFA.

If they would have been released teh LFA on-time, it would be clear techno-alternative to the CGT and costs MUCH less.

Anyway, leaving aside the McLaren doesn't exactly use the same construction, I'll restate:

At its introduction, it was (by far) the cheapest car of its kind ever made. See: Enzo, CGT, SLR, etc.

Last edited by REX8; 12-20-2012 at 01:31 PM.
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 03:10 PM   #68
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
It's not very hard to sell 500 cars.
That's not necessarily the case, and with the LFA, they all were accounted for within a short length of time, which doesn't always happen with hypercars. Remember that the McLaren F1 was originally supposed to have a production run of 300, but they cut it down to 100 when McLaren figured that they wouldn't be able to move that many units. Even the "extended" Enzo run (which ended up being 399, up from the original 349 planned, which matched the F50's run) still had some unsold units well into its production run, albeit not a lot. I remember a story about a Porsche Carrera GT owner in my area (Irvine, CA at the time) supposedly having it while having purchased an Enzo within the same week as its replacement. Similarly, remember that James Glickenhaus' P4/5 started out as the last unsold, unregistered Ferrari Enzo that he picked up in 2005 before having Pinninfarina work their magic on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
MP4-12C costs more than LFA????
They don't have the "same" construction, as REX8 said. The MP4-12C just had a carbon fiber tub with the rest of its frame being metal, which helped reduce its production costs while reducing the duration of time to complete one.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 07:05 PM   #69
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
They don't have the "same" construction, as REX8 said. The MP4-12C just had a carbon fiber tub with the rest of its frame being metal, which helped reduce its production costs while reducing the duration of time to complete one.
Who cares, considering the McLaren is ~400lb lighter?

All this hoopla about special looms, lasers and CF pillars...and the curb weight of the final product is still closer to that of a steel-bodied BMW M6 than it is to that of the McLaren MP4.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 07:13 PM   #70
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 M3, N54 135i
In another life: REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
Who cares, considering the McLaren is ~400lb lighter?

All this hoopla about special looms, lasers and CF pillars...and the curb weight of the final product is still closer to that of a steel-bodied BMW M6 than it is to that of the McLaren MP4.
No one is arguing that carbon-heavy construction is "worth it". The reason you don't see more of it is because, in general, it's not worth it.

Point was, I think, that you can't call it overly expensive, unless you compare apples to apples. McLaren's attempted at similar construction yielded a $500,000 SLR. Porsche's? Almost the same.

As it's been said...hardly any halo exotic is worth the $$$ from a performance/$$$ standpoint. So if you're going to bitch about the LFA in that regard, then the line forms to the right. Behind some other cars that no one seems to complain about for some reason.

P.S. LFA: 3,263–3,483 lb

MP: 3155 lbs

So I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from.
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 07:18 PM   #71
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
Who cares, considering the McLaren is ~400lb lighter?
I was just making the point that they are not "the same construction," which was insinuated earlier.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 07:38 PM   #72
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
P.S. LFA: 3,2633,483 lb

MP: 3155 lbs

So I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from.
C&D, because they actually put the cars on a scale.

MP4 - 3187 lb

LFA - 3569 lb

M6 - 3908 lb
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 07:39 PM   #73
4wdwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72042
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Sunshine
Vehicle:
2002 WRX impreza
WRB "Blue Mammoth"

Default

I can't believe someone pointed out "it's just a Toyota", like its a overpriced Camry and that Toyota (one of the largest car manufacturers) cannot engineer a super car.

Engineering is engineering, I think any manufacturer can produce excellent super cars and the LFA is definitely a super car with exquisite engineering behind it.

It's just not the priority of the manufacturer or where the funding is allocated.
4wdwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 07:46 PM   #74
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 M3, N54 135i
In another life: REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
C&D, because they actually put the cars on a scale.
Well **** those guys!
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 08:18 PM   #75
OrbitalEllipses
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 178811
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MoCo
Vehicle:
2013 WRB BRZ
:banana:

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
Who cares, considering the McLaren is ~400lb lighter?

All this hoopla about special looms, lasers and CF pillars...and the curb weight of the final product is still closer to that of a steel-bodied BMW M6 than it is to that of the McLaren MP4.
Does the McLaren have an equally equipped interior? Is it as DDable?
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.