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Old 12-20-2012, 02:58 AM   #26
garzdos
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
There's a thread in this forum right now asking "who loves M1?" which speaks exactly to those ignorant assumptions about brand, this thread was in part a response to that one.
I started the "who loves Mobil 1" thread. I left my title a little open ended because I, like you are saying, feel that there are a ton of assumptions about brand versus correct oil viscosities being used. I was hoping to get some spirited but more detailed discussion that hopefully fleshed out the issue of brand assumptions...alas, it just turned into the usual "Mobil 1 will make your engine blow up" garbage...I should have known better!
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:25 AM   #27
Uncle Scotty
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Originally Posted by garzdos View Post
I started the "who loves Mobil 1" thread. I left my title a little open ended because I, like you are saying, feel that there are a ton of assumptions about brand versus correct oil viscosities being used. I was hoping to get some spirited but more detailed discussion that hopefully fleshed out the issue of brand assumptions...alas, it just turned into the usual "Mobil 1 will make your engine blow up" garbage...I should have known better!

the ISSUE is that there are MAMY M1 oils and people are ****ing STUPID ....because you can tell them SPECIFICALLY AND EXACTLY what to buy and almost invariably they buy the WRONG DAMNED THING.....and dont even know it....

OR

people have NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY SORT about motor oils, yet they have all of the vehement opinions about it and they are just stupid, know nothings

or

they got GREAT results in their '32 huppmobile with 5w30 M1 so that MUST be good for their '73 vega....and then they blow up the vega and wanna blame everybody and everything other than the oil for their

or

.....and on and on and on

bottom line....

people are stupid and un and under educated on motor oil.....but THINK they know what they are doing
and they dont have a clue
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:30 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by garzdos View Post
I started the "who loves Mobil 1" thread. I left my title a little open ended because I, like you are saying, feel that there are a ton of assumptions about brand versus correct oil viscosities being used. I was hoping to get some spirited but more detailed discussion that hopefully fleshed out the issue of brand assumptions...alas, it just turned into the usual "Mobil 1 will make your engine blow up" garbage...I should have known better!
and you and your useage is VERY a-typical and what is good for YOU will NOT be good for 99.9% of the rest of us because we actually DRIVE the car

you drive...maybe...3500 miles/year???? and bought a brand new car....to drive it 3500 miles a year

that is one of the most ridiculous things i have seen posted here in my 10+ years of being on this board
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:56 AM   #29
garzdos
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and you and your useage is VERY a-typical and what is good for YOU will NOT be good for 99.9% of the rest of us because we actually DRIVE the car

you drive...maybe...3500 miles/year???? and bought a brand new car....to drive it 3500 miles a year

that is one of the most ridiculous things i have seen posted here in my 10+ years of being on this board
You make me laugh...and it's actually closer to 4500-5000 miles per year. Does that get me any more approval from you? Oh please, please, please approve of me and my driving! I just can't sleep without your approval...

Seriously though, your displeasure with my mileage brings a smirk to my face each time I read something you post...thanks for the laughs!
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:02 AM   #30
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You make me laugh...and it's actually closer to 4500-5000 miles per year. Does that get me any more approval from you? Oh please, please, please approve of me and my driving! I just can't sleep without your approval...
Seriously though, your displeasure with my mileage brings a smirk to my face each time I read something you post...thanks for the laughs!

just stop posting.....really

get out and see the world......get outta mommys house and GO somewhere...stop being so sheltered

i drive that much in a couple months....jesus...i walk that much in a year
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:24 AM   #31
garzdos
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just stop posting.....really

get out and see the world......get outta mommys house and GO somewhere...stop being so sheltered

i drive that much in a couple months....jesus...i walk that much in a year
Another smirk! You truly are hilarious.

It's funny how you don't know me at all but talk as if you do! Now I can see how you've accumulated so many posts - useless banter!

Merry Christmas!
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #32
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A better temperature range would be 90* to 20*. That would account for 95% of my driving, and even at 20* the engine has only a slightly harder time on start-up than usual.

All I wanted to get across was that T6 can be used in an N/A subie. Of course if you live where it's really cold, like subzero frequently, T6 wouldn't be ideal to use.
I hear you, and from my experience it works fine down to 0*F in a Subaru, probably even colder. Your original post made it sound like you thought there was no difference between 5w oils at cold temperatures, which is a common misconception.

Yes, RT6 can be used in N/A cars, but it's rarely optimal. The only times I can think of when an oil as thick as RT6 would be necessary in an N/A Subaru is track usage or heavy towing. It's a reasonable choice as a high quality long-drain synthetic at a great price. In that sense it's a fine choice for a N/A Subaru, despite being thicker than necessary. Nobody around here uses it for the 10k mi OCIs it's capable of though.

Engines can tolerate quite a wide range of operating viscosity, in fact, they do so all the time simply because of variations in oil temperature due to weather and usage. That's one of the things the graph I just posted should tell us. M1 0w30 is thicker at 85*C than RT6 is at 100*C. You're pretty lucky if your oil temp stabilizes above 85*C while cruising down the highway on a 0*C day. Conversely, towing a trailer up a mountain pass on a 30*C summer day can take your oil temperature above 110*C.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:49 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by garzdos View Post
I was hoping to get some spirited but more detailed discussion that hopefully fleshed out the issue of brand assumptions...alas, it just turned into the usual "Mobil 1 will make your engine blow up" garbage...I should have known better!
I think you succeeded to the extent it's possible. Someone willing to look will see good posts by Dennis, Concillian, and myself (IMHO). Hopefully people can separate the knowledge from the ignorance.

Unc is right though, many are incapable of doing so. Marketers know this and that's why "Brand Managers" often make more than engineers and products are always bathed in bathtubs full of marketing BS.

And for the record, I think 4,500 well chosen miles in a WRX beats 10,000 miles of workaday traffic any day.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #34
garzdos
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

I think you succeeded to the extent it's possible. Someone willing to look will see good posts by Dennis, Concillian, and myself (IMHO). Hopefully people can separate the knowledge from the ignorance.

Unc is right though, many are incapable of doing so. Marketers know this and that's why "Brand Managers" often make more than engineers and products are always bathed in bathtubs full of marketing BS.

And for the record, I think 4,500 well chosen miles in a WRX beats 10,000 miles of workaday traffic any day.
I appreciate you always keeping on track!
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:55 AM   #35
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That's because 30*F is not very cold. Try that 60* colder (-30*F).

I've used RT6 in my WRX through a MN winter, but the coldest I ever had to start it unaided was about 0*F. I've also used GC and Redline 0w30 in the winter, believe me, there's a substantial difference.

There are several phenomena which conspire to make starting much harder at cold temperatures. The battery looses it's ability to provide current, the oil gets thicker, requiring more power from the starter to spin the engine at a given RPM, and the fuel becomes harder to vaporize, meaning you need to spin the engine faster to generate the port velocity required for a viable combustion charge. Add it all up and the difference between 30*F and 0*F is a lot greater than the difference between 60*F and 30*F.

Here's what the relative viscosities of M1 oils and RT6 look like down to 32*F (0*C). RT6 is over 50% thicker at 32*F than M1 5w30.

I greatly appreciate this info, and sorry if I missed your original information, but are you running this on a N/A or Turbocharged car? I'm mostly looking for assistance in start-up in sub-zero temperatures. Was debating M1 0w30 or Rotella 0w30 instead of the 5w30 they had in it prior. I want to go synthetic on my N/A mostly due to the drastic weather changes I experience during the year (-15F in winter, 100+ in the summer). I'm working with an 09 Impreza 2.5i.

Again, apologies if it's been beaten to death, just a lot of opinionated people arguing and I was wondering your recommendation.

Edit: Sorry, I see you're running the N/A 3.6. Still wondering your opinion on utilizing a 0w30 for my temperature extremes though. Thanks again
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:52 AM   #36
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From the data above, Mobil 1 0w30 seems quite robust, and would probably do fine in your application all year. Your temperature extremes are similar to my Father's, he sees colder temperatures in the winter, and similar temperatures in the summer. The determining factor is how you use your car in the summer. If you tow a trailer, do track days or do a lot of full throttle driving up mountains, then something thicker than M1 AFE 0w30 is probably best. I'd recommend Mobil 1 0w40 (also tested above).

Your car is new enough that it's probably still under warranty, so you should be aware that using oils which do not meet the requirements in your owner's manual could jeopardize warranty coverage. Your manual (I believe) states API SM as the minimum required, meaning SL or earlier (SJ, SH) are not approved. My 2007 manual still mentions SL in parenthesis, so check to make sure.

5w30 is the weight mentioned most prominently in your owners manual, and a good synthetic variety will work just fine down to -22*F, and even a bit below. Consider sticking with 5w30. Note that M1 5w30 is actually thinner than the 0w30 down to freezing, it's only substantially below freezing that the 0w30 pulls ahead.

FYI, there are only a few 0w30s around and they fall into three very different categories.

-The Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 in the above UOAs is a Resource Conserving "thin" 30wt oil which meets the latest ILSAC GF-5 and API SN specifications required for warranty in most Asian and American brand passenger cars. 0w30 is not mentioned in your owner's manual, but Subaru has blessed it in official communications, so it should be safe for warranty coverage.

-Castrol Syntec 0w30 (aka German Castrol or GC) is popular with the turbo Subaru crowd, it's a robust "thick" 30wt oil meeting European ACEA A3/B4 specifications for forced induction cars. It does not meet the current API SN specification for passenger cars, only the older SL spec. GC is functionally very similar to M1 0w40 except M1 meets API SN.

-Rotella T5 0w30 is also similar to GC in that it is a robust "thick" 30wt. The Rotella product, however is targeted primarily to diesel engines. Unlike Rotella T6 5w40 it does not carry current API certification for gasoline engines, only the very old API SJ. I would not use this in a gasoline engine, especially one under warranty.
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