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Old 09-14-2002, 07:09 PM   #1
Midwayman
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Lightbulb A thought on link boost maps...

Was thinking about the link plus boost maps from 0-300kpa, yet only a 2bar internal sensor.... sent this to link-usa. Maybe they'll change it? I mean the only time someone would need 300kpa is when they are also running an external map sensor.


"I have a Link plus, and was having a thought about the fuel table vs boost. I know the default turbo map goes all the way to 300kpa. There is a different map scaling for NA mode, so what are the chances that the link plus can be changed via software to have a map for upto ~200kpa when using the internal 2bar map sensor (which should only read that high anyways) and then only switch to the 300kpa map when you say you are using an external 3bar map sensor? Alot of guys like me arent running enough boost to need the 3bar map and are loosing alot of sensitivity that way. It would be a great way to have better generic tune-ability of aftermarket low boost turbos."



Maybe if you think the same thing, you could write in, and it will actually get updated?
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Old 09-15-2002, 02:41 PM   #2
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I would like the same thing.

Look

-Chav
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Old 09-15-2002, 05:07 PM   #3
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Yah, I read that awhile ago. Just saying it shouldnt be a special order thing since you *HAVE* to hook up an external sensor if you want to use the whole default range. More than us would benefit.
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Old 09-15-2002, 05:57 PM   #4
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Andrew already talked to the Link guys about that back in Dec. They can do it but it would be quite expensive, and Andrew could not find enough people that were interested in purchusing the upgrade to make it worth while.
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Old 09-15-2002, 10:17 PM   #5
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So I read the previous thread on this.

As an electronic engineer, I must say I am disappointed with Link. I dont understand the difficulty with changing the maps (do not read as MAP sensor ). Most likely all they do is make the maps in their software, and write it to an EEPROM, or programmable memory. Its like a BIOS for your computer (actually much simpler). Do you have to spend $125-$150 to upgrade your BIOS, heck no :monkey:. In fact they could ship you a new EEPROM with the new fuel map, and even if you dont send your old EEPROM back, it still hasnt cost em more than $10.

Sorry but its 15 minutes of work to satisfy customers that have already bought their product. Or to appeal to a market that is growing, and will be looking at their product.

I will be starting on my boost project soon, and another vendor has been crossed off of the list. Though they were one of the preferred. But not if they have that attitude.
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:51 AM   #6
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I know Andrew asked them.... just hoping if enough voices are heard, they'll do something.
-B
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Old 09-16-2002, 02:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by pdximpreza
So I read the previous thread on this.

As an electronic engineer, I must say I am disappointed with Link. I dont understand the difficulty with changing the maps (do not read as MAP sensor ). Most likely all they do is make the maps in their software, and write it to an EEPROM, or programmable memory. Its like a BIOS for your computer (actually much simpler). Do you have to spend $125-$150 to upgrade your BIOS, heck no :monkey:. In fact they could ship you a new EEPROM with the new fuel map, and even if you dont send your old EEPROM back, it still hasnt cost em more than $10.

Sorry but its 15 minutes of work to satisfy customers that have already bought their product. Or to appeal to a market that is growing, and will be looking at their product.

I will be starting on my boost project soon, and another vendor has been crossed off of the list. Though they were one of the preferred. But not if they have that attitude.
you assume that the EEPROM is ina removeable socket, well FWIW i would hope it would be, but alot of companies permanatly solder their proms in now. I know my J & S is epoxied into place.

jeremy
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Old 09-17-2002, 02:03 AM   #8
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Well you shouldnt say permanently soldered =) A cheap spring loaded solder sucker works great =)

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, but you have 2 Oxy sensors, a MAP or MAF sensor, and a knock sensor right? Am I missing any.

From these sensors, the microcontroller determines based on the map in memory what the ignition timing, and fuel should be.

I dont see the difficulty and the need to charge as much as these people do. I also havent designed one, and so dont know the production costs.

But I do know I had built projects in my microcontroller class that used at most 16 inputs to determine the output of a choice of 4 ports IIRC. Its a 68HC11 microcontroller IIRC that we used, and had 16K or RAM. Nothing big. If I was to buy the microcontroller, the RAM and an EEPROM burner, I would have spent no more than a few hundred bucks. And the book for all the coding for a is like $20. Go to your bookstore and look for a book on how to program a microcontroller, there are a few types, the Basic Stamp is one, and you will see how very easy it is. And you get free software to write your program. Get a breadboard (hehe look that one up if ya dont know) and you can test your circuit before you apply it.

Dang, maybe I should be designing all you guys an ECU. And believe me, if I wasnt so damn procrastinated I would.

Anyways, maybe I am wrong....... maybe those things are worth $1k.
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Old 09-17-2002, 02:06 AM   #9
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Epoxy..... hmm, I think there are some solvent type epoxy removers. Dont know if they would damage the rest of the circuit though.

I am really going to have to look into this. If I get off my a$$ and actually get something good designed I will let you all know.

And as of right now, I really am not looking to make money off of people. If I did it, I would charge for my time, but not as inflated as I believe most of these products to be.
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Old 09-17-2002, 03:16 AM   #10
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You are missing Crank angel, cam angel, engine temp, ambient air temp, voltage sensing circuit, throttle position sensor, input for AC on, and there is a lot of filtering in a knock sensor circuit. All of these inputs are necessary for an ECU that runs well. Also out puts for at least 2 ignition drives (preferably 4), 4 injector drives, tack drive, AC on, fan drives, and most people like a few extra drives for things like IC spray/shift light/ and stuff like that which most of these ECUs have. Not to mention data logging and on the fly adjustability (which requires a bit more memory than most micro controllers come w/). I'm sure I still missed a few inputs and outputs, but you get the just right?

I considered coming up w/ my own for a while. I have been programming Microchipís PIC series controllers for about 7 years now, but after researching all that was involved I decided that it would take more time than it was worth. It would involve a bit of analog design as well as at least two microcontrollers working together on a serial bus and probably a bit more memory. Not to tough to do, just very time consuming.
I have no doubt that I could do it, but it would not be worth it too me. I would rather spend the cash on one that was already done (Iím running the Link now).
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Old 09-17-2002, 02:01 PM   #11
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Hey, thanks for the input. I am going to have to find some documention for all these sensors, and what outputs it will need.

I know I have read that the angle sensors are just a Hall effect sensor. And the temps are going to just have an analog out. You ur going to probably need a analog->digital converter per input, and a drive circuit per output, but thats standard. Filtering is fairly easy.

As you said, not to tough, just time consuming. But since I am a little broke and cant work on car, I need a project =)

Plus I know this kid (hehe im only 22) that I work with that won a national contest for digital design, hes just knows the stuff like no other. I can persuade him to help.

But like I said, I am a field service engineer, when things are working, we dont work, we all get bored. So time is not the issue. I am just curious to find out what it will actually take as far as hardware goes to desing one of these.

I am still under the impression that 1K is too much for these things. I know you have wages to pay, and you inflate it some, but business practices now adays I think has gotten out of hand. If say I designed one of these, and the total production cost is say $350, wheres the justification in charging $1k. Maybe its just me.
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Old 09-17-2002, 02:01 PM   #12
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Sorry it double posted.
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Old 09-17-2002, 03:19 PM   #13
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Im not saying ECU's arent overpriced.... but low volume electronics trying to cover R&D..... Check out simple digital systems. They are probably real close to what you're looking at.
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Old 09-18-2002, 12:44 AM   #14
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I don't know if you have done anything w/ Microchip's PIC series microcontrollers, but they have a built in 10 bit anolog to digital converter, so that would save some time and room. They also have a C compiler for them now so you can write the code up in C which is nice. I don't know if they are more or less powerfull than the microcontrollers that you are used to using, but I like 'em.
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Old 09-18-2002, 02:22 PM   #15
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The 68HC11 is what I am used to. And I have a few books for it. The PIC is more versatile and has more models available such as A/D converter and memory sizes.

But the chip should change much, and that PIC is having a C compiler, would definately make thing very, very easy.
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