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Old 12-29-2012, 12:28 AM   #1
travisamorgan
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Question 07 2.5i head gasket replacement questions.

ok i got a coolant and oil leak on my car. im pretty sure its head gaskets. i plan to change them in a month along with my timing belt and possibly water pump (not sure yet). i will most likely be doing the job myself and i got a few questions.

this car is my daily driver and im home from school 6 hours away. if i keep a good eye on oil and coolant levels will i be ok to make the drive? im been monitoring it and oil level hasnt really moved much and the coolant hasnt leaked but a small amount maybe a pint. the car doesnt overheat at all a little below middle of the temp gauge.i made the drive here with it possibly leaking but didnt noticed it until i got here. been driving with it 2 weeks so far and thats what ive noticed. i gotta make it back to school so i need the car.

ive searched and seen that the permatorque mls gaskets are the best? is this correct? i plan to do a little bit modding but not gonna turbo it. i know i obviously need head gaskets and i already have the spark plug and valve cover gaskets, would i be better off to buy the entire engine gasket kit and sell the valve cover and spark plugs seals or buy what i need separately? what exact gaskets i need? intake, exhaust and what else? (im pulling the engine most likely) i did find this kit on ebay and if you type the item number in google it says its the permatorque mls but i am not sure

heres the link on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-09-Subaru...ed2de0&vxp=mtr

i found just the head gaskets on rockauto.com but was wondering if that was for one or two?

sorry it is kinda lengthy and bouces a round a lot

thank travis
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisamorgan View Post
ok i got a coolant and oil leak on my car. im pretty sure its head gaskets. i plan to change them in a month along with my timing belt and possibly water pump (not sure yet). i will most likely be doing the job myself and i got a few questions.
You might want to take it to a mechanic if you are unsure whether the head gasket is leaking or not. If you go to ALL the trouble of pulling the engine, replace head gaskets, timing belt, idler, pulleys, etc, why would you not replace the water pump? It's a $50 part max.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisamorgan View Post
this car is my daily driver and im home from school 6 hours away. if i keep a good eye on oil and coolant levels will i be ok to make the drive? im been monitoring it and oil level hasnt really moved much and the coolant hasnt leaked but a small amount maybe a pint. the car doesnt overheat at all a little below middle of the temp gauge.i made the drive here with it possibly leaking but didnt noticed it until i got here. been driving with it 2 weeks so far and thats what ive noticed. i gotta make it back to school so i need the car.
It's impossible to tell whether your car will be ok. Could you go 50k miles without problems? Yes. Could you hydrolock your engine tomorrow and destroy your block? Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisamorgan View Post
ive searched and seen that the permatorque mls gaskets are the best? is this correct? i plan to do a little bit modding but not gonna turbo it. i know i obviously need head gaskets and i already have the spark plug and valve cover gaskets, would i be better off to buy the entire engine gasket kit and sell the valve cover and spark plugs seals or buy what i need separately? what exact gaskets i need? intake, exhaust and what else? (im pulling the engine most likely) i did find this kit on ebay and if you type the item number in google it says its the permatorque mls but i am not sure
What's wrong with OEM gaskets? Buy the gaskets you need. If the difference in cost between what you need and a full OEM gasket kit is negligible, then just get the gasket kit.

Two seconds of searching:
DIY: Pull your engine
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1991595

DIY: Head Gasket Replacement
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1991652

Meatys Timing Belt How-To Video (HD)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2111702

I highly suggest you buy a FSM for you car, especially if you are going to be tearing it down. It will have all the torque values you need, plus parts and gaskets.

Research, research, then more research. If you have a month before you do this, you want to be an expert when you start otherwise you'll either screw something up and spend twice what you would have.

Good luck
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:53 PM   #3
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i looked underneath today and did find my head gaskets leaking. i prolly will change the water pump too since now for sure i gotta pull the engine.

i never thought to look into the cylinders to see if the collant is in the cylinders yet ill check tomorrow. so far it ooks like an external leak since i dont see oil in the coolant or coolant on the dipstick.

i was just wondering if there was any brand of gaskets that were better than stock to be an upgrade. when i replace a broken pat id prefer to upgrade it if possible and if the funds are right and its cost effecient.

i need to know what gaskets to get. i know intake, exhaust, throttle body?, and the spark plug and valve covers gaskets that i already have.

i already have those threads favorited and i already have the full service manual.

im still doing research but just wanna know if im looking for the right things. ive searched here and rs25.com ive seen fel-pro permatorque mls mentiond the most or the sti 642? i just wnna know which one is the best for the money and if there is a kit with ne of these in it or if my ebay link in the original post will work.

one more question:
should i replace the head bolts? i know they are torque to yield and stretch but have seen some people do adn some dont and have no idea what they ost or where to find them.

i dont plan to rush anything and will take my time and got a few peoples help.

thanks travis
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisamorgan View Post
i looked underneath today and did find my head gaskets leaking. i prolly will change the water pump too since now for sure i gotta pull the engine.

i never thought to look into the cylinders to see if the collant is in the cylinders yet ill check tomorrow. so far it ooks like an external leak since i dont see oil in the coolant or coolant on the dipstick.

i was just wondering if there was any brand of gaskets that were better than stock to be an upgrade. when i replace a broken pat id prefer to upgrade it if possible and if the funds are right and its cost effecient.

i need to know what gaskets to get. i know intake, exhaust, throttle body?, and the spark plug and valve covers gaskets that i already have.

i already have those threads favorited and i already have the full service manual.

im still doing research but just wanna know if im looking for the right things. ive searched here and rs25.com ive seen fel-pro permatorque mls mentiond the most or the sti 642? i just wnna know which one is the best for the money and if there is a kit with ne of these in it or if my ebay link in the original post will work.

one more question:
should i replace the head bolts? i know they are torque to yield and stretch but have seen some people do adn some dont and have no idea what they ost or where to find them.

i dont plan to rush anything and will take my time and got a few peoples help.

thanks travis
Sounds like you are on top of things. It's my understanding that the head bolts are torque to yield as well, but I've seen a few threads where people have discounted this and reused the head bolts. If they are indeed torque to yield, I'm way too big of a sissy to reuse head bolts - I'd just buy new ones.

I personally am using stock OEM head gaskets with copper spray on them. I plan on pushing about 20lbs of boost (2004 FXT). You probably will not find a straight answer on what HG to use. Some people swear OEM. Some swear OEM + copper spray. Some swear cometic, etc...

When you get to the point where you are cleaning off your block and heads, save yourself hours of time and a huge headache. Read this thread:

New Head Gasket Question?!?!

I posted some info and pics of what Subaru approved tools to use to clean the mating surfaces absolutely spotless.

To find out what gaskets you need, call your local Subaru dealership and ask for parts. Talk to the person about what you are doing and exactly what gaskets you will need. These people order parts all the time for their shop. Don't be afraid to call. I'm now on a first name basis with my parts guy, and he has been my savior when trying to find random bolts, etc.

Take care
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:58 PM   #5
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Use oem headgasket for 04 sti with partnumber that ends in *642; these are mls gaskets.

Reuse headbolts unless there is something wrong with yours.

Don't buy an ebay gasket kit. It will leak in 5k-10k miles.

Either get oem timing belt or gates timing belt and use oem idlers and tensioner.

Only use oem waterpump and thermostat.

***Number one most important thing when doing headgaskets is to make sure the block and heads are perfectly flat and clean to ensure correct seal.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:26 PM   #6
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^ what he said
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:13 PM   #7
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where can i find those sti 642 headgaskets for the cheapest? if i go to the dealer will they give them to me without having a vin number? or should i find and buy them online? any links would be helpful

what about the headbolts? should i use oem or arp? - i have no intention of turboing this car at all just maybe a few bolt on mods like intake spacers and intake and exhaust so no boosting.

what should i use to clean the heads and engine? i noticed the post about the 3m disks thingys but i dont have the money at all for a compressor, air tool, and the $50 pads. i will have lots of time so could a rag and brakeleen and a lot of scrubbing work? and maybe use a plastic scraper for the gooey stuff. i plan to take my time and do everything as right as i can on a budget. heres the link on a thread about it:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2414334

one last question:

torquing down the headbolts? should i use the subaru service manual way or the 30-60-90 way? heres the link on this for better explanation:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2321906

thanks travis
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:04 AM   #8
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Buy the headgaskets from your favorite local dealer. After shipping it isn't any cheaper online.

Re-use your oem headbolts.

A cheap way to clean the deck: find a large piece of thick glass about 1/4" x 5" x 5" (usually free from a local glass company) to use when you clean surfaces. Glass must be perfectly flat. I used very fine grit sandpaper and water to ensure a clean, flat mating surface.

Take your heads to a local machine shop to get them decked to make sure they are clean and flat.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:41 PM   #9
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what part number is for the water pump? 07 2.5i?
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:29 PM   #10
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no one knows the part number? are all the water pumps from all n/a 2.5L the same? just looking to see where i can get the water pump the cheapest. any links would also be helpful

thanks travis
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #11
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I got all of my part numbers from here and ordered through her.
ww w.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f125/forester-timing-belt-kits-76277/
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisamorgan View Post
no one knows the part number? are all the water pumps from all n/a 2.5L the same? just looking to see where i can get the water pump the cheapest. any links would also be helpful

thanks travis
Did you call and speak with your parts guy like I suggested? They will know everything. Good luck.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #13
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the parts guy told me the headgaskets for the 04 sti is *670???? O_o found the *642 on bay here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Subaru-Genui...5a95cd&vxp=mtr

is this the right one? itll take the same amount of time for them to order the part as it will for the ebay to ship. and i would hae to drive 45 minutes to get the parts. save gas and $10 a gasket ordering off ebay. found the water pump and gasket for $110 too.

what do you guys recommend for the rest of the gaskets? just use felpro from advance or autozone? i know the intake gaskets will be removed to uton intake spacers and the exhaust will be removed again in the next 6 months for new headers. so cheaper the better.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:11 PM   #14
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11044AA642 is for 04-05 EJ255 turbo engine, and the 04-06 EJ257. It mates perfectly with the EJ251 N/A (i used it when my HG blew on my 2003)

11044AA670 is for 06-08 EJ255. It also works with the EJ253 N/A (and I'll use it when the HG blows on my 2008 )
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:00 AM   #15
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so which will work on my 07? i already ordered the 642 since rhino said it would work and i read some other threads that said the same thing? did i screw up? i dont know which engine is in my car i know i says ej25 on the block under the power steering pump since we are that far down pulling it up but thats all ive seen. i really hope i didnt screw up...
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:37 AM   #16
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I don't know. My only reference was this: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...89-post49.html
Then again, the question remains whether the block/coolant passages changed in between EJ251 and EJ253. If they didn't, the 642 will work.

Your best bet might be to go to the dealer, take the OEM head gaskets for your car (...633, I think), and place them on top of the 642 and 670.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:07 AM   #17
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i found a thread that says they ae the sam after some more research. if its not right ill order the right ones and sell the wrong ones... i saw somwhere that the 07 2.5i already had mls gaskets?
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:51 AM   #18
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If yours leaked, they weren't MLS
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:17 AM   #19
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yeah i finally got the engine out after 9 hours because we couldnt get the nut off for the engine mount drivers side, it was stripped really bad and rustedon pretty good and the cooling fan connector was difficult.... the gaskets is definately not a mls. looking for a color pink to paint my intake sti pink while its off
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:16 PM   #20
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oem are 633 and they are MLS ! don't mess around with the avcs rockers ... you might loose a actuator !
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:04 AM   #21
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the ones that we took off werent mls at all. ill make sure not to touch anything thinking about adjusting valve lash once i get it back together
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:20 PM   #22
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633 are POS single-layered steel. "Multi" applies to steel layers, not the amount of overall (sealant, steel, sealant) layers.

Last edited by Bluefoton; 01-19-2013 at 12:35 PM. Reason: edit: part number
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:02 PM   #23
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i got my 642 gaskets but now need the bypass hose my buddy ripped it taking it off. engine and heads are clean from gasket material. i used 800 grit wet or dry sandpaper and brakleen and soapy water and wd-40 and some soft sccrubbing. took awhile but it worked pretty good.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:36 PM   #24
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heads are on and timing belts on BUT...... i gotta another question/possible problem?

i aligned all the marks, put on the belt and bolted on the pulleys and tensioner, and turned over the engine WITHOUT pulling the pin on the tensioner. after turning over the engine like 5 times to check the alignment marks, i realised i forgot the pull the pin and pulled it, the passenger side marks is off by 2 teeth fom lining up with the other 2 alignment marks. the pistons dont hit the valves and everything turns smooth when turning it over. before i turned it over i did count the teeth between the gears and it was right on and the marks ligned up perfectly.

did i mess it up? i would think i did but ive never messed with an interference engine or a hydraulic lifter vales either and i didnt know if the valves mov more at higher rpm and could move enough to contact the pistons or not? i wouldnt think they would.

AGAIN - ALL MARKS WHERE ORIGINALLY ALIGNED AND THE TEETH COUNT WAS CORRECT BEFORE TURNING ENGINE OVER AND THEN PULLING THE TENSIONER PIN. I QUADRIPLE CHECKED IT ALL.
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