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Old 12-06-2012, 07:51 PM   #1
WhatTurboLag?
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Default Fp71hta, blouch 1.5/2.5-xtr TS, OR rotated?

I'm having the hardest time deciding for the time being. I plan to eventually make this car a big power street car. But for now while I'm on the stock motor I want to get the best response and spool and about 300-350whp on a mustang. I am NOT concerned about power now, just good response and spool like I said and a nice flat torque curve and as wide of a powerband as I can get, that will hold to as close to redline as possible. Something that isn't going to be laggy (way before 3500rpm I think is safe to say) and a very fun daily driven car.


Whatever I get will have to have a billet wheel, ball bearing preferred, and again I would like twin scroll but given my price range it's not completely attainable. My price limit is about the price of a standard rotated kit.

So for my options:

71hta, not a lot of info on this yet but it's supposedly made for this exact need. Awesome anti surge cover and the cheapest to swap in.

Blouch 1.5/2.5 xtr twin scroll, I have seen some impressive results with their 10cm twin scroll housing. Down side is I need to buy a header, down pipe, and manifold.

Other cheaper option would be to just run a vf36/37/42/56 but I don't think I'll make my power goal or if I do won't be able to come close to the powerband I want.

And finally,

Rotated. Like I said I ultimately wanted to go this route for making big power down the road. But I feel like to get the spool and response I need it will be hard to find the turbo I want. Like the gtx28 but it seems they still won't have the powerband and a 30r is a little too laggy for what I'm looking for, for now. But would be the easiest and cheapest transition to a bigger turbo later.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:55 PM   #2
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what fuel is available? big difference if you have e85 or if you are staying 91/93
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #3
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Sorry, for NOW I prefer 93. Stock motor, stock fuel minus injectors. I might do a fuel system just for reliabilitys sake soon after but this is going to be as much as a daily as possible. I don't want to have to plan my routes or worry ever about it. I may put it on an alternate map and will run it down the road when it's not a daily/when I have a second consistent reliable source of transport.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:39 PM   #4
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What other supporting mods do you have done to the car? Fuel pump,injector size,intercooler,tuning?
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:44 PM   #5
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to make the easiest decesion for you.

the HTA wheels are great, they spool very efficently, and pull HARD.

blouch obviously makes some awesome parts! BUT if you wanna go big later ditch the idea of buying all of those twin scroll parts.

AT ALTITUDE 6100 ft above sea level. i have a stock 2.0l. and the older 68HTA. and i make 290whp. i spool at 3800rpms.

you would easily be able to hit 350 with supporting mods. there is no question about it. your power band will azz **** mine. and you will be so happy.

get
fuel pump
injectors
exhaust
turbo

and youll be fine!!!

a car similar to mine with the 71HTA makes over 21whp more then i do!!!! same spool!

great turbo
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:22 AM   #6
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Stock sti tmic or a tmic. Either or no upgraded tmic. Injectors, 1000s to give myself room if I go to e later. Full exhaust, speed density etc.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:45 PM   #7
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so i guess everything i just spent my time on telling you was meaningless


great!
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:36 PM   #8
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Hahaha nop not completely
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:56 AM   #9
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Oh yeah is not such
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:45 AM   #10
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If you're going bigger later get the cheapest option for now now worth going twin scroll and buying all the parts if you're going bigger anyway
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:16 PM   #11
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Avoid the 71hta, the 68hta is one of the worst Subaru turbos money could buy, rebadging it something else isn't going to make it better.

Go rotated, buying numerous turbo setups isn't worth the time and money invested, I know from experience. Go with what you want once and be done. If that's not an option, at least go rotated right away.

I'd recommend rotated gt28r, 1200cc-1600cc injectors, the new 400lph fp direct wired, fmic, ebcs, tbe. That should give you enough headroom for a gt30 on E85 down the road (might have to add fuel rails though), great powerband (even on pump gas), AMazing transient response, and is about the cheapest option out there to go big later on.

Other great option would be Full Race's stock location efr turbo kit with supporting mods. You'd need a built engine though. That's the only stock location setup that's worth a damn.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:33 AM   #12
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This will all be great and fun until you realize that you're going to need to do something about your transmission as well. The turbo hardly matters if you're unable to safely and efficiently transfer the power to the ground.

If you're realistically looking at going BIG power within the next year or two, go rotated. Otherwise, if you know that it's going to be further down the road, stick to the 2.5XT-R, buy the header, downpipe, maifold, and call it a day. That will get you the power / driveability / reliability you're looking for on the stock engine no problem.

FWIW, I'm at 310awhp / 340awtq @ 21psi on my VF43. Still room for improvement, too. Don't underestimate the VFs, there's a reason they're so popular...
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:35 AM   #13
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I have a new 07 6 speed Lol
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
I have a new 07 6 speed Lol
This would have been beneficial to know in the first place. Since you've got the trans. sorted out then do what you want with the turbo... Each one is going to have its advantages and disadvantages and everyone in this thread is going to have their own opinion about what you should do.

Realistically, though, you just need to think about when you're looking for good power. It makes no sense to go rotated and run a small turbo if this is a few years away. So my statement still stands, get the 2.5XT-R and make good power for the time being.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:36 AM   #15
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I disagree. It makes no sense to go small stock location. Particularly if you want big power some day. A rotated kit will have better spool, transition response, and make more power than a comparable stock location turbo. Plus, then you don't have to buy hot pipes, intake, fmic couplers again when you go bigger. It's also much cheaper to bolt in a larger turbo on a rotated kit, the turbos are significantly cheaper.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:15 PM   #16
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I'm failing to see how a Dom 2.5XT-R would be classified as "small stock location." That turbo won't even be utilized close to its full potential on stock WRX internals. I agree in saying that it will minimize his costs once he finally decides to do a rotated setup, but for the time being, there is no use in spending the extra money up front. I'm by no means saying that the Dom is the end-all be-all for his application, but in my opinion he's got better options than to do rotated small right now.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #17
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I vote rotated only because you want to be there eventually. Good luck finding a cheap enough kit that will allow a TMIC though.

Otherwise, I'd personally vote for a set of JDM manifolds, a MP UP, and one of these.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:05 PM   #18
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i run the dom 1.5xtr. your not gonna hit 350 on a mustang without meth or e85. I am barely making over 300 with that turbo @19psi. it is a conservative tune, but even still, it is an overhyped turbo without race fuel/high boost. its nothing special on regular gas.

Rotated is the answer to your question, period. you want bigger power than vf series, go rotated or do it twice to get it right.

also, you arent gonna be making those #s and spool way before 3500. youll be lucky to be spooling at 3500 for 350whp. what do you want? fast spool or top end power? you dont get both. The sooner you, and everyone else gets this through their head, the better off we will all be. everyone wants the same thing, and everyone is dissapointed to find out it doesnt exist. better to burst your bubble now, than after you spend thousands only to find out.

just stick with an sti takeoff turbo until you have the $ to do a real rotated setup. trust me. i spent 3$k on a dom 1.5xtr, and injectors and a tune and for the price it was not worth the increase in power over my vf43/39.

and if you MUST pick between those turbos the 2.5xtr>1.5 i would trade mine if i could
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07VTRex View Post
i run the dom 1.5xtr. your not gonna hit 350 on a mustang without meth or e85. I am barely making over 300 with that turbo @19psi. it is a conservative tune, but even still, it is an overhyped turbo without race fuel/high boost. its nothing special on regular gas.

Rotated is the answer to your question, period. you want bigger power than vf series, go rotated or do it twice to get it right.

also, you arent gonna be making those #s and spool way before 3500. youll be lucky to be spooling at 3500 for 350whp. what do you want? fast spool or top end power? you dont get both. The sooner you, and everyone else gets this through their head, the better off we will all be. everyone wants the same thing, and everyone is dissapointed to find out it doesnt exist. better to burst your bubble now, than after you spend thousands only to find out.

just stick with an sti takeoff turbo until you have the $ to do a real rotated setup. trust me. i spent 3$k on a dom 1.5xtr, and injectors and a tune and for the price it was not worth the increase in power over my vf43/39.

and if you MUST pick between those turbos the 2.5xtr>1.5 i would trade mine if i could
^This. I spoke with a bunch of tuners before I bought the VF43... For the money and availability, the VF turbos are hard to beat, especially given the power they make to comparable twin-scroll, etc. It doesn't make any sense in my eyes to do a small rotated setup because he doesn't have the internal accomodations, though.

If you do decide on one of the Blouch, though, the 2.5xt-r has the advantage of the two.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:52 PM   #20
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Another vote for rotated now if you KNOW you'll absolutely be going for big power eventually. Buy a rotated kit that will accommodate both a smaller (gt28-ish) turbo now and the larger turbo you eventually want to grow in to. Which means likely a T3 flange or vband set up. Reselling just a small rotated turbo will likely be less hassle than trying to sell off an entire aftermarket stock location set up once you're ready to move on to the big turbo.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobasaurusrex View Post
I'm failing to see how a Dom 2.5XT-R would be classified as "small stock location." That turbo won't even be utilized close to its full potential on stock WRX internals. I agree in saying that it will minimize his costs once he finally decides to do a rotated setup, but for the time being, there is no use in spending the extra money up front. I'm by no means saying that the Dom is the end-all be-all for his application, but in my opinion he's got better options than to do rotated small right now.
A gt28 is also the exact same size as the dom2.5. Which it should be, considering that's what it's based off of. Blouch just tweaks it to fit in Subaru application. The xtr has their specific aero. Since that's the case, I'd say use it in a rotated setup. Better response, better spool, save 1000s in the long run, easy to go bigger later. There is zero downsides. Particularly with a vband set up.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 07VTRex View Post
i run the dom 1.5xtr. your not gonna hit 350 on a mustang without meth or e85. I am barely making over 300 with that turbo @19psi. it is a conservative tune, but even still, it is an overhyped turbo without race fuel/high boost. its nothing special on regular gas.

Rotated is the answer to your question, period. you want bigger power than vf series, go rotated or do it twice to get it right.

also, you arent gonna be making those #s and spool way before 3500. youll be lucky to be spooling at 3500 for 350whp. what do you want? fast spool or top end power? you dont get both. The sooner you, and everyone else gets this through their head, the better off we will all be. everyone wants the same thing, and everyone is dissapointed to find out it doesnt exist. better to burst your bubble now, than after you spend thousands only to find out.

just stick with an sti takeoff turbo until you have the $ to do a real rotated setup. trust me. i spent 3$k on a dom 1.5xtr, and injectors and a tune and for the price it was not worth the increase in power over my vf43/39.

and if you MUST pick between those turbos the 2.5xtr>1.5 i would trade mine if i could
Incorrect. I am talking about the ts version which has almost stock like spool.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07VTRex View Post
i run the dom 1.5xtr. your not gonna hit 350 on a mustang without meth or e85. I am barely making over 300 with that turbo @19psi. it is a conservative tune, but even still, it is an overhyped turbo without race fuel/high boost. its nothing special on regular gas.

Rotated is the answer to your question, period. you want bigger power than vf series, go rotated or do it twice to get it right.

also, you arent gonna be making those #s and spool way before 3500. youll be lucky to be spooling at 3500 for 350whp. what do you want? fast spool or top end power? you dont get both. The sooner you, and everyone else gets this through their head, the better off we will all be. everyone wants the same thing, and everyone is dissapointed to find out it doesnt exist. better to burst your bubble now, than after you spend thousands only to find out.

just stick with an sti takeoff turbo until you have the $ to do a real rotated setup. trust me. i spent 3$k on a dom 1.5xtr, and injectors and a tune and for the price it was not worth the increase in power over my vf43/39.

and if you MUST pick between those turbos the 2.5xtr>1.5 i would trade mine if i could
I know we've been through this before, but I call a bit of BS here. If I remember correctly, your car makes peak boost wherever it does, around 4,000 rpm, and holds it flat out to redline. What more is the turbo supposed to do? How will a bigger turbo do better, holding your 18 psi (or 19, whichever it is) flat to redline? You are not even pushing the turbo to it's limits, why would a bigger one help?

Last edited by northman; 12-11-2012 at 12:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:23 PM   #24
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A gt28 is also the exact same size as the dom2.5. Which it should be, considering that's what it's based off of. Blouch just tweaks it to fit in Subaru application. The xtr has their specific aero. Since that's the case, I'd say use it in a rotated setup. Better response, better spool, save 1000s in the long run, easy to go bigger later. There is zero downsides. Particularly with a vband set up.
Aside from the cost up front.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #25
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Aside from the cost up front.
The cost difference up front is negligible. Turbo xs kit is 4k for: all hot pipes, fmic, turbo, wastegate, and I believe intake as well. Price that out individually for a stock location turbo. Hell, the rotated kit might actually save home money.
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