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Old 01-03-2013, 01:55 PM   #1
t6nis1234
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Default EJ205 build-up

Hello,

I thought I got a rod knock few months ago. Hoped that rod and main bearings change is all that's need to be done. Now, when the engine is off, I can say that nothing went like I hoped.
Crank,pistons,rods, block works,plus all the gaskets, bolts, spark plugs etc. need replacement.

Was thinking of buying a used EJ257 engine. But decided not to, because probably I would need to do all the job anyway that Im doing now with EJ205.

Mods done at the moment are TGV delete, HKS headers, 3" exhaust, Grimmespeed El. Boost Control solenoid, CAI, slicone induction, ACT flywheel, TIAL 50mm BOV,Denso Iridium IK20. Car milage is impressive 180k miles.
Engine was running with stock internals/turbo 1.6bar/23psi. 274hp/298lb-ft from crank.

I don't have power goal. Would like to participate on track days and use it as a hobby/fun car. And most important is to make it as reliable as possible.
In future will upgrade for bigger turbo, fuel injectors,rails,pump, STI TMIC, probably also a STI tranny.

Things I need to get replaced and some things I have decided to buy:
1. New OEM Subaru 2004-2005 EJ205 Cross-Drilled Crankshaft
2. Forged aftermarket pistons
3. ACL rod and main bearings
4. ARP 12-Point Cylinder Head Studs
5. All new OEM gasgets
6. New spark plugs
7. Stronger rods

Questions what should I/should I not upgrade:
1. Valves+springs+retainers?
2. Camshafts?
3. Aftermarket head gaskets?
4. Oil and water pump?
5. I would like to go with stronger rods, but workshop says that I should be good with stock ones.

My biggest concern is to get the same problem again like I had this time- oiling problem. Upgrading camshaft seems pointless if Im afraid to rev over 6000rpm or I shouldn't worry about it with new internals (and good oil of course). Is there a point to leave stock camshafts, but upgrade valves and springs?
Is there something I totally missed?
My budget limit is around 6-7k $.

Try to get some pictures of the block in few days.

All the best,
Tõnis
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #2
quazimoto
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I would try looking around the "Built Motor" section as there is a ton of info in there on this.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:29 AM   #3
t6nis1234
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Made my decision to go with Manley H rods, valves, springs, retainers and Wiseco pistons.
Is there a point to go with +1mm valves with stock cams or it's a overkill?
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #4
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You decide on the valves but I would not use ACL bearings, look into Clevite. Much better consistency from every builder I've talked to.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:33 PM   #5
t6nis1234
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I read good things about ACL's and Clevites. And also about King's.
It's my first engine build and really don't know which one to choose.

And more more thing. Is it good idea to go with 11mm oil pump, if I get it with same price as 10mm. May too high oil pressure become a problem, since I will have new crank, std size bearings, 92.5mm pistons and rings set.
I'm planning to upgrade oil pan in the future.

Last edited by t6nis1234; 01-10-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:00 PM   #6
ronnieallor
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You should build a 2.1 Stroker I just put 2000 miles on mine and it runs Great you can really tell I difference between the two I went with acl bearings, Manley rods, Manley 2.1 Stroker pistons, the new sti induction hardened crank, 12mm oil pump and 08 sti oil sump and pan setup it pulls harder, revs higher and cuts turbo lag in half
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:34 PM   #7
t6nis1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnieallor View Post
You should build a 2.1 Stroker I just put 2000 miles on mine and it runs Great you can really tell I difference between the two I went with acl bearings, Manley rods, Manley 2.1 Stroker pistons, the new sti induction hardened crank, 12mm oil pump and 08 sti oil sump and pan setup it pulls harder, revs higher and cuts turbo lag in half
Maybe I should have done it, but already ordered the parts. Definitely will not get as much power as you do, but should be strong enough for further upgrades, which is my biggest focus/concern at the moment
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:43 PM   #8
rexblake
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You should have gone with a 2.5 hybrid setup... A built 2.0 is one of the worst motor options out there for Subaru's. A full ej207 swap would have worked great in stock form for your goals, a full 2.5 swap would be ideal, a hybrid works pretty decent if done right. The extra displacement is great.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:43 PM   #9
t6nis1234
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I was thinking about going with hybrid, but EJ257 semi-closed decks are known to fail. I'm not making so much power with 2.0, but at least I know that my internals are strong enough for at least 350whp, if not more. Not as easy to achive with 2.0, but doable.
Plus going with used EJ257, it's hard to tell it's condition. Probably would need to change most of the parts Im changing now.
Finally, I'm more into reliability, then into power or torque. I'm sure that 2.0 has enough to offer me.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:26 AM   #10
KenSekiguchi
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JDM V7 EJ207/13' Felt Z85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by t6nis1234 View Post
Hello,

I thought I got a rod knock few months ago. Hoped that rod and main bearings change is all that's need to be done. Now, when the engine is off, I can say that nothing went like I hoped.
Crank,pistons,rods, block works,plus all the gaskets, bolts, spark plugs etc. need replacement.

Was thinking of buying a used EJ257 engine. But decided not to, because probably I would need to do all the job anyway that Im doing now with EJ205.

Mods done at the moment are TGV delete, HKS headers, 3" exhaust, Grimmespeed El. Boost Control solenoid, CAI, slicone induction, ACT flywheel, TIAL 50mm BOV,Denso Iridium IK20. Car milage is impressive 180k miles.
Engine was running with stock internals/turbo 1.6bar/23psi. 274hp/298lb-ft from crank.

I don't have power goal. Would like to participate on track days and use it as a hobby/fun car. And most important is to make it as reliable as possible.
In future will upgrade for bigger turbo, fuel injectors,rails,pump, STI TMIC, probably also a STI tranny.

Things I need to get replaced and some things I have decided to buy:
1. New OEM Subaru 2004-2005 EJ205 Cross-Drilled Crankshaft
2. Forged aftermarket pistons
3. ACL rod and main bearings
4. ARP 12-Point Cylinder Head Studs
5. All new OEM gasgets
6. New spark plugs
7. Stronger rods

Questions what should I/should I not upgrade:
1. Valves+springs+retainers?
2. Camshafts?
3. Aftermarket head gaskets?
4. Oil and water pump?
5. I would like to go with stronger rods, but workshop says that I should be good with stock ones.

My biggest concern is to get the same problem again like I had this time- oiling problem. Upgrading camshaft seems pointless if Im afraid to rev over 6000rpm or I shouldn't worry about it with new internals (and good oil of course). Is there a point to leave stock camshafts, but upgrade valves and springs?
Is there something I totally missed?
My budget limit is around 6-7k $.

Try to get some pictures of the block in few days.

All the best,
Tõnis
Hey Tõnis,

Have you considered buying a JDM V7 or V8 Long Block? Considering your budget, those two above mentioned motors are right around what you are looking to spend and you get factory reliability, not to mention very stout motors even in stock form. Just a suggestion, but you should definitely consider that option. Check out the EJ207 Owners Thread on here, definitely a worth while read.

--
Ken Sekiguchi
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:50 AM   #11
t6nis1234
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Default

Hey Ken,

I have already ordered some parts (rods, crank etc.), so maybe it's little bit late for new long block.
But I have a question about EJ207 vs EJ205. Is there a difference in block. Are they both open decks or is EJ207 semi-closed deck? Has EJ207 thicker cylinder wall? Are crankshaft different?
If they are the same, then can't see point why not to go with EJ205 block with forged intrenals.
Is there difference between cams?
I don't care about difference in injectors or turbo, because going to upgrade them anyway in the future.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:47 PM   #12
KenSekiguchi
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Default

Hey Tõnis,

First off, you should definitely read through the EJ207 Owners Thread which is usually located on the first page of this forum ( Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain Forum ). There is a lot of great information in there from individuals who currently own either stock or heavily modified JDM V7, V8, V9, etc. Long Blocks and a lot of questions from people who are considering purchasing one of the JDM Vx variant Long Blocks.

As far as differences between the EJ205 and the EJ207, night and day my friend. Here are some key selling points on the EJ207 -

- Semi-Closed Deck
- Forged Pistons
- Forged Rods
- Forged and Cross Drilled Crankshaft
- Thicker Cylinder Walls ( if my memory serves me correctly, they are slightly thicker than the EJ25x variants )
- OEM 10mm Oil Pump
- The Intake and Exhaust Ports on the heads are significantly larger
- Slightly more aggressive cam profile, from stock anyway, so you are looking at something slightly less than a 250 IN / 250 EX
- Single AVCS
- etc., etc., etc.

This is just a quick list of what you'll be getting with the V7 EJ207 drawn from memory. Read through the EJ207 Owners Thread, I'm sure that they have a lot more info than what I just posted. Good luck.

--
Ken Sekiguchi


Quote:
Originally Posted by t6nis1234 View Post
Hey Ken,

I have already ordered some parts (rods, crank etc.), so maybe it's little bit late for new long block.
But I have a question about EJ207 vs EJ205. Is there a difference in block. Are they both open decks or is EJ207 semi-closed deck? Has EJ207 thicker cylinder wall? Are crankshaft different?
If they are the same, then can't see point why not to go with EJ205 block with forged intrenals.
Is there difference between cams?
I don't care about difference in injectors or turbo, because going to upgrade them anyway in the future.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:51 AM   #13
t6nis1234
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Talked with my builder. He also recommended for STI swap. Since my cross-drilled crank, forged rods, ARP head bolts, 11mm oil pump, etc are already ordered I thought that maybe I can find just a EJ207 block in Estonia. I didn't, but my builder did. And with pretty good price.
Yes there are some things I will miss, that EJ207 has (higher cams, better turbo etc), but Im not too sad about it.
I hope all the other EJ205 parts will fit on EJ207 block without any problems.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:30 AM   #14
t6nis1234
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Builder got EJ207, now just waiting for the other parts to arrive, then they can finally start putting it all together.
I have Exedy Stg 2 ceramic clutch at the moment, which is really pain in the ass to drive in the city. And it's also not good for my tranny. So since my engine is already off, I'm thinking of changing the clutch.
Question is that, is it okay to just replace the clutch (ACT for example) and leave the same pressure plate, which has only driver 3k miles?

Tõnis
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:51 PM   #15
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I went from the Exedy stg 2 to the ACT and am happier with the ACT.
Interesting thread btw, keep us posted.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:34 PM   #16
t6nis1234
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Did you only changed the clutch disk or pressure plate also?
I'm just little worried if Exedy pressure plate is going to be good with ACT clutch disk.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #17
gtfaded
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I swapped the plate as well.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:04 PM   #18
t6nis1234
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Builder finally got most of the parts.
Engine is going to built with:
1. EJ207 block
2. New cross-drilled crankshaft
3. Manley H-beam forged rods
4. New 11mm oil pump
5. ACL bearings
6. +1 mm Manley valves
7. Manley valve springs
8. ARP bolts for heads
7. All new gaskets, oils, belt, water pump etc.

Heads are being porter at the moment, block is in the work. New crankshaft had a defect and it needs to be worked on. Crank, rods and pistons will be balanced in Finland, because don't have a company or a person in Estonia, who could do it on the level needed.
Things that are not yet ordered are pistons. Initially was planning to buy CP pistons, but still not sure, because builder recommended to get pistons with lowered compression ratio, that could hold on more power reliably. What do you think?
Before the build my engine was running with max 23psi boost with stock internals. To keep it reliable, should the max boost be lowered? I have stock TD04 turbo at the moment, not planning to go with bigger one this year, maybe next.
This block and internals should be good to use it up until 8000rpm, but turbo runs out on 5.5k. Just thinking is there much left on the board with decent tune?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:46 AM   #19
t6nis1234
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That's how much work was needed to fit +1mm valves.
http://www.upload.ee/image/3122796/P1080611.JPG
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:08 PM   #20
t6nis1234
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Engine is still being built. Should have all the items to put it all together.
Pistons are going to be Mahle's production.
I have one question up in the air that I don't have clear answer yet. Question is about O2 sensors. I have custom made de-cat turbo-back, which has two O2 sensors installed- one is in downpipe and second one in midpipe according to http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/scooby/mattspec.gif this picture. My question is- does ECU need O2 sensor in downpipe or should it be there from the factory? If it's not needed for ECU to control the engine, then is it possible to wire the sensor directly to AFR gauge (assuming it is a WB sensor)? Because at the moment I don't have the AFR gauge installed, but the wire from the sensor has to go somewhere. I assume that it is going to ECU and previous owner was reading the AFR through OBDII with computer. Does it make sense?
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:21 AM   #21
t6nis1234
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Things are coming to an end. Engine will be together this Saturday. It has taken months to get there, but I have nowhere to hurry.
Now I'm trying to get a bigger turbo in my hand. I don't want to go something big like 18 or 20G and just thinking of VF39 or something similar. Hopefully I'll find something with a good price.
That's how pretty it looks at the moment, can't wait to get her alive.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:47 PM   #22
t6nis1234
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VF39 is on it's way.
What injectors should I choose? Am I good with STI 550cc's or would DW 750cc's would be better idea if I'm pushing VF39 do it's limits?
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6nis1234 View Post
VF39 is on it's way.
What injectors should I choose? Am I good with STI 550cc's or would DW 750cc's would be better idea if I'm pushing VF39 do it's limits?
If you really want to push it go with 650's or bigger.

I'm about to smash a vf39 and the pinks on my bugeye. I have no intentions of seeing more than 17-18psi on my crappy 91oct.

Really this is a question for your tuner.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:12 PM   #24
t6nis1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectQWKSLVR View Post
If you really want to push it go with 650's or bigger.

I'm about to smash a vf39 and the pinks on my bugeye. I have no intentions of seeing more than 17-18psi on my crappy 91oct.

Really this is a question for your tuner.
I'm learning to be my own tuner and that's the reason why I asked what you guys are recommending
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