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Old 04-14-2013, 12:37 AM   #2851
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How are the Golf R's selling in the U.S.? I've only seen two or so driving around.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:49 AM   #2852
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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
And that would be why VW outsells Subaru by many many times. If they keep improving reliability and shrug off the reputation they earned for building cars with problems they will end up as the biggest manufacturer in the world.

Ultimately, the WRX was hitting a niche portion of the market. The more mainstream they try and make the WRX to more it gets diluted into something that just can't compete with the big makers. Sales go up, but brand loyalty goes down.

Maybe model loyalty. Subaru's brand loyalty is fine.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:26 AM   #2853
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Maybe model loyalty. Subaru's brand loyalty is fine.
Give it a few more years when it becomes just another car that's almost just like what the big brands are offering, but not as nice.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:08 AM   #2854
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Give it a few more years when it becomes just another car that's almost just like what the big brands are offering, but not as nice.
Yes, yes - its too mainstream, its not mainstream enough... it's all speculation. It'll either be the car with everything or not hardcore enough for the enthusiast, the only thing for certain is that it will not impress everyone.

It's pretty cool that Subaru could be aiming at VW as a prime competitor when the next gen comes out - targeting one of the biggest manufacturers in the world is a lofty goal and definitely the direction you want to set your sights if you're an up-and-comer.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:47 AM   #2855
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I do not think subaru is in danger of losing sales. For many reasons. A few are just that they build some very fine automobiles that are gaining market penetration and recognition by just about everybody. The overwhelming press for all Subarus is universally positive. The Subaru Love Commercials are positively brilliant and to me indicate the health of the brand.

I feel that needs more explanation. Subaru is selling an emotion with those commercials. They do not brow beat you with numbers MPG this, BEST that, Cubic Feet this, 0-60 that. They sell you on how the car makes you feel. This to me is the sign of a marketing firm that has connected with its customers. WHen you can sell a product by not even talking about the product (coke, Levis Jeans in the 90's, etc) I think that bodes well for Subaru.

Every time I see the forester back seat commercial I think, I could trade in the outback on that RIGHT now and be happy.

I do not even think Subaru needs to match VW in specs. If they would just make an attempt to catch up, I think that will be just fine.

The Mk7 R will be a great car, and will be worth a consideration vs the WRX and STI. I am just VERY happy to have the option to choose between them.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:09 AM   #2856
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How are the Golf R's selling in the U.S.? I've only seen two or so driving around.
I haven't seen any myself, but it may be a bit too soon to tell. We only have 1 vw dealer close, and I don't even see any on the lot.

The CC is super popular around here... but not many golfs. Up in PA they may be pretty popular though, I'll keep my eye out when I'm up there.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #2857
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I have 4 just around me! Maybe it is a suburbanite thing. HAHA
One is driven by a normal 30 something
One is driven by a 60 year old bald guy that really scoots it
One is driven by me
One is driven by stereotypical 98 lb 6'2" curly haired 19 year old with a knit cap on all the damn time.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:41 AM   #2858
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Oh, I don't think they will lose sales either. Overall, I think the sales of Subarus will increase. What I think people are alluding to is sales of the WRX due to lack of a hatch/wagon. It won't make much a difference though, as long as the brand, WRX, maintains profitability. The BRZ makes a nice halo car, but it is shared with Toyota and is really a niche car. Subaru needs one of their own. Whether the "Love" commercials can sell a possibly $30k+, rather plain Jane sedan, WRX is yet to be seen. Compared to even 5 years ago there are a plethora of contenders in the, relatively cheap, performance, smaller car market. Almost all being 5 doors.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:43 AM   #2859
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I do not think subaru is in danger of losing sales. For many reasons. A few are just that they build some very fine automobiles that are gaining market penetration and recognition by just about everybody. The overwhelming press for all Subarus is universally positive. The Subaru Love Commercials are positively brilliant and to me indicate the health of the brand.

I feel that needs more explanation. Subaru is selling an emotion with those commercials. They do not brow beat you with numbers MPG this, BEST that, Cubic Feet this, 0-60 that. They sell you on how the car makes you feel. This to me is the sign of a marketing firm that has connected with its customers. WHen you can sell a product by not even talking about the product (coke, Levis Jeans in the 90's, etc) I think that bodes well for Subaru.

Every time I see the forester back seat commercial I think, I could trade in the outback on that RIGHT now and be happy.

I do not even think Subaru needs to match VW in specs. If they would just make an attempt to catch up, I think that will be just fine.

The Mk7 R will be a great car, and will be worth a consideration vs the WRX and STI. I am just VERY happy to have the option to choose between them.
Agreed, I'll be doing the same once its released, a yr or so after the next WRX/STI. On another note that I was thinking about as it relates to the general consensus that Haldex is crap and can't compare to real AWD. Its obvious that VW has been deliberate in not borrowing the AWD tech from Audi which would increase the cost of VW's. VW wants to build upon the fuel saving effects of having a parttime AWD setup, while still offering the benefits of having AWD. The next gen Haldex that will be featured in the next Golf R should be even more responsive and I think that VW is making an aggressive push to make it better each gen release.

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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I have 4 just around me! Maybe it is a suburbanite thing. HAHA
One is driven by a normal 30 something
One is driven by a 60 year old bald guy that really scoots it
One is driven by me
One is driven by stereotypical 98 lb 6'2" curly haired 19 year old with a knit cap on all the damn time.
I saw a ton more in NJ, and there seemed to be very few on dealer lots. In Houston less but the ones that dealers have in stock sell pretty fast. Its a really good car for the day to day, that gives you some power and a lot of the refinement found in a more expensive car for less. Therefore it sells and it sells pretty fast.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:04 AM   #2860
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
canned tuna.

Have you heard the release on the Mark VII R?
What I have heard is between 270-300 HP, Haldex V, Lighter by around 200 lbs. Completely defeatable Traction control from the factory, DSG or 6MT still up for debate, and a price drop. THey also want to make the R a standard model in stead of once every 4 years.

I think this car is relevant since it is becoming a direct competitor to the WRX/STI/EVO. The interior of the Mark 7 golf is amazing, so no telling what they will put in the R. I would imagine it would have the 7" touch screen, and the latest audio/tech/wireless stuff.

A more powerful/lighter/less expensive R is going to attract some attention.
Ok, you've got my attention...Question, are the Rs made in Germany or assembled in Mexico?

Last edited by uspopo; 04-14-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:03 AM   #2861
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I am just VERY happy to have the option to choose between them.


THIS!
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:17 AM   #2862
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Ok, you've got my attention...Question, are the Rs made in Germany or assembled in Mexico?
Dunno that but I can tell you some Haldex castings are made in Michigan, in the same plant as some Subaru castings.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:19 AM   #2863
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Ok, you've got my attention...Question, are the Rs made in Germany or assembled in Mexico?
I know the mark 7 Golfs will built in Mexico for the NA market, but whether the R will be built there I honestly do not know.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:32 AM   #2864
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Ok, wanted to know because my last new car purchase was a 99 GTI-VR6 and that came from Germany and not assembled in Mexico like the regular GTI or Jettas. I think the Jetta GLI VR6s also came from Germany back in the day.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #2865
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Yes, yes - its too mainstream, its not mainstream enough... it's all speculation. It'll either be the car with everything or not hardcore enough for the enthusiast, the only thing for certain is that it will not impress everyone.

It's pretty cool that Subaru could be aiming at VW as a prime competitor when the next gen comes out - targeting one of the biggest manufacturers in the world is a lofty goal and definitely the direction you want to set your sights if you're an up-and-comer.
Subaru is going more mainstream, that's pretty clear. No one has argued the alternative. It has been a sales success. I really think they will sell more cars that way and is a good model for the company. It does leave the niche market out, which is sad to some of us weird car buyers, but smart for the company. See what happened to Saab.

Where did you find Subaru is targeting VW? People are saying they will buy a VW if the WRX will be sedan only. That would indicate to me they are actually avoiding competing with VW.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:38 PM   #2866
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Like you said, if they are leaving out the "niche" market they will hurt for sales on the wrx/sti. I fell in love with Subaru with the 02/03 WRX model. The more they go away from that, the more I look at other cars. If I want a Corolla I'll go to a Toyota dealer.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:22 PM   #2867
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I have 4 just around me! Maybe it is a suburbanite thing. HAHA
One is driven by a normal 30 something
One is driven by a 60 year old bald guy that really scoots it
One is driven by me
One is driven by stereotypical 98 lb 6'2" curly haired 19 year old with a knit cap on all the damn time.
2 at the dealer up the street from us. I have seen a few on the road now that I care to know what I am looking for. Called one of their sales guys who has a R32. I met him way back when I was auto crossing my first STi. He can drive the snot out of that car. He is also a certified Porsche driving instructor. Asked him to show me a Golf R and boy did he. I see your love for the car. It is nice with several features I wish we had. I do like the overall feel of it. Very solid. He drove it like he does his so I could see it's full potential. I then let him drive the STI that I drove over there. You said something about the R having 90% of the performance of the STI? I do have to disagree with that based off his drive alone. I understand more(now) what you have been saying. Still like the Subaru better though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
Oh, I don't think they will lose sales either. Overall, I think the sales of Subarus will increase. What I think people are alluding to is sales of the WRX due to lack of a hatch/wagon. It won't make much a difference though, as long as the brand, WRX, maintains profitability. The BRZ makes a nice halo car, but it is shared with Toyota and is really a niche car. Subaru needs one of their own. Whether the "Love" commercials can sell a possibly $30k+, rather plain Jane sedan, WRX is yet to be seen. Compared to even 5 years ago there are a plethora of contenders in the, relatively cheap, performance, smaller car market. Almost all being 5 doors.
Seriously doubt it will be plain Jane.

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Originally Posted by UKscooby View Post
Dunno that but I can tell you some Haldex castings are made in Michigan, in the same plant as some Subaru castings.
What castings? And how long have they been doing that in Michigan? I was told at SIA that the engines and transmissions were cast in Japan and sent over to be assembled here.

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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
Subaru is going more mainstream, that's pretty clear. No one has argued the alternative. It has been a sales success. I really think they will sell more cars that way and is a good model for the company. It does leave the niche market out, which is sad to some of us weird car buyers, but smart for the company. See what happened to Saab.

Where did you find Subaru is targeting VW? People are saying they will buy a VW if the WRX will be sedan only. That would indicate to me they are actually avoiding competing with VW.
What happened to Saab was GM....
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:27 PM   #2868
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Like you said, if they are leaving out the "niche" market they will hurt for sales on the wrx/sti. I fell in love with Subaru with the 02/03 WRX model. The more they go away from that, the more I look at other cars. If I want a Corolla I'll go to a Toyota dealer.

I just have to at that whole statement. What have you heard/read at all that even hints that they are "going away from that"? That concept alone makes the 02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13/and my guess the 14 look like a Corolla.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:29 PM   #2869
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What happened to Saab was GM....
You have no idea what happened to Saab.

How much stake does Toyota own in Subaru? Just saying bad things happen for the consumer choices when the car market homogenizes. Basically, what has happened to the US car industry.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:32 PM   #2870
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You have no idea what happened to Saab.

How much stake does Toyota own in Subaru? Just saying bad things happen for the consumer choices when the car market homogenizes. Basically, what has happened to the US car industry.

17.6%
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:21 PM   #2871
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I just have to at that whole statement. What have you heard/read at all that even hints that they are "going away from that"? That concept alone makes the 02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13/and my guess the 14 look like a Corolla.
They can make the concept look as flashy and radical as they want... But what counts is what they sell in showrooms. And that's still up in the air, despite what Subaru has been saying.

I think a lot of people, that guy included, are just worried that the Corolla-ization of the rest of the brand will spill over into the new WRX.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:58 PM   #2872
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Seriously doubt it will be plain Jane.
..
Bet it is closer to Jane than let's say the Gone in 60 seconds "Eleanor" or "Natalie" or "Ashley" or "Sharon" or "Gina" or "Pamela".
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:17 PM   #2873
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I just have to at that whole statement. What have you heard/read at all that even hints that they are "going away from that"? That concept alone makes the 02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13/and my guess the 14 look like a Corolla.

I'm not going off of the concept, I'm going off of what hits the showroom. The 08+ sedan can be confused for a Corolla sedan easily, and I remember something similar to this sedan a couple years ago. Do some google searching and tell me the 02 WRX vs 08 WRX don't have extreme differences in styling for the worst in terms of aggressive styling. The fact that I have an '09 and am looking at '02-03s says a lot. Again, I'm the "niche" market that subaru should be catering to (WRX/STI).

Last edited by kickniteasy; 04-14-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:41 PM   #2874
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Great write up Justy!

it was good you got a good ride. No doubt the STI is a great car. Just from what I was looking for the STI came up short this time around. Next round may be different.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:20 PM   #2875
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They can make the concept look as flashy and radical as they want... But what counts is what they sell in showrooms. And that's still up in the air, despite what Subaru has been saying.

I think a lot of people, that guy included, are just worried that the Corolla-ization of the rest of the brand will spill over into the new WRX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
Bet it is closer to Jane than let's say the Gone in 60 seconds "Eleanor" or "Natalie" or "Ashley" or "Sharon" or "Gina" or "Pamela".
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickniteasy View Post
I'm not going off of the concept, I'm going off of what hits the showroom. The 08+ sedan can be confused for a Corolla sedan easily, and I remember something similar to this sedan a couple years ago. Do some google searching and tell me the 02 WRX vs 08 WRX don't have extreme differences in styling for the worst in terms of aggressive styling. The fact that I have an '09 and am looking at '02-03s says a lot. Again, I'm the "niche" market that subaru should be catering to (WRX/STI).

I AM going off the concept. Their last 2 concepts that were meant for production were not really that far off of the production versions(Legacy, Impreza). Oh yes. The concepts looked far better than what made production, but after comparing what those concepts were compared to their production offspring, I do not believe this new WRX will disappoint(me anyway).
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