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Old 01-21-2013, 09:20 PM   #351
Shavenyak
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The length of time is up to the individual, but saying , "Enjoy living in someone else's past, filling the world with more hate because of those that are long dead and gone." is ignorant at best.

If you don't want people commenting on your argument, take it to PM's.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:26 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Shavenyak View Post
The length of time is up to the individual, but saying , "Enjoy living in someone else's past, filling the world with more hate because of those that are long dead and gone." is ignorant at best.
The phrase dead and gone was in reference to the Nazi party, as it pertains to ruling modern-day German.

I hardly see how you can describe my aversion to Orbital's admitted hypocrisy as "ignorant". I find it regressive. And I say that having family, still alive, who fled eastern Europe when the war broke out.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:27 PM   #353
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I'm about your age.

Gloss over the whole Japan I see, only comment on half the example? OK, fine. So post a length of time then, how long until we, as a society, should stop the hate?

What is your problem anyway?

Your original post questioned me calling him hypocritical. Orbital admitted to technically being hypocritical in this situation (fine, to each their own).

That leaves you jumping in, why?
Because you're advocating we forget atrocities that man commits against man? Atrocities as recently as 1940 even. Please, let's take this to OT if you want to go down that path.

To be quite fair, you use past tense while mentioning Japanese and PRESENT tense when mentioning Virginia and slave ownership...you ****ed that up yourself. Getting back to Germany; BMW supplied the Wehrmacht, VWAG (parent company of Audi AG, or the other way around?) was der Fuhror's ride, while Benz was popular with many National Socialist elite as well, while the founder of Porsche (also owned by VWAG/Audi AG now) took assignments from der Fuhror. It's not wanton hate, it's SPECIFIC.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post

To be quite fair, you use past tense while mentioning Japanese and PRESENT tense when mentioning Virginia and slave ownership...you ****ed that up yourself.
You know the point I was making.

Advocating we forget atrocities that man commits? No, of course not.

Again, no one said forget anything. I said I find hypocrisy in your selection of which atrocities are worthy of your free-market bias, and which ones aren't.

You drive a Japanese car, and won't buy a German car. You're a smart guy, and hence, you've already admitted to that rather, ummm, tenuous distinction in the context of say, 1930-1945 world politics.


C/N This thread wasn't going anywhere anyway.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:35 PM   #355
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BMW supplied the Wehrmacht, VWAG (parent company of Audi AG, or the other way around?) was der Fuhror's ride, while Benz was popular with many National Socialist elite as well, while the founder of Porsche (also owned by VWAG/Audi AG now) took assignments from der Fuhror. It's not wanton hate, it's SPECIFIC.
Obama would love a people's car!
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:38 PM   #356
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The overboost function limit is grossly exaggerated. You get 20 seconds of overboost. It is not like you get 20 seconds a day then you have to wait 24 hours before you get to use it again.

The WRX brakes out of the box will lay down and die after a short romp on the track. The ST brakes seem to be more up to the task. They are definitely stronger.

The WRX probalby has a higher performance modification ceiling than the ST due to its AWD system. But out of the box, I think an ST would be far more rewarding car.

I know that out of the box my Golf R is worlds better than my 2011 WRX was out of the box. It needs absolutely nothing to be a great drivers car even with its all season tires it is a great car to drive. The WRX was soft and rolly, and had weak breaks, and vague steering feel.

I love subaru's and will buy a new Legacy GT if they ever make one again, but I have to call the WRX what it is. A car that is good, but needs to be modified to be great.
The WRX has it's faults from factory, the reason the newer 11+ models are so sought after (on top of the fact that they're very inexpensive) is a nice aggressive widebody, wider track, and most of all a huge potential to grow and improve. While stock they may handle worse than it's FWD competition, and brakes may be ****ty, all it takes are a good set of sway bars and hps pads to demolish its competition. And while it is considerably better than its competition in a straight line, all it takes for it to really stand way ahead of the competition is a downpipe and tune. And sure you can do the same to other cars, but they tend to hit walls in their performance way sooner in the mod path than the WRX. There are a lot of cars much better than the WRX, I'd be the first to say that, but I seldom see cars for the same price that are better than the WRX.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:41 PM   #357
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New line of questioning to ease the tensions...

What % of the BMW would have to be parts made in Japan (or China), before you could be persuaded into a test drive?
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #358
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Regardless, I am not advocating that Germans or German people or German companies are bad and that no one should buy their products. I'm just personally not interested in select German brands (or IBM for that matter, who sold the Nazis their computers). Except maybe Porsche...

If we listen to anything Josef said...the death of millions is just a statistic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
You know the point I was making.

Advocating we forget atrocities that man commits? No, of course not.

Again, no one said forget anything. I said I find hypocrisy in your selection of which atrocities are worthy of your free-market bias, and which ones aren't.

You drive a Japanese car, and won't buy a German car. You're a smart guy, and hence, you've already admitted to that rather, ummm, tenuous distinction in the context of say, 1930-1945 world politics.


C/N This thread wasn't going anywhere anyway.
It wasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Obama would love a people's car!
HE WOULD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
New line of questioning to ease the tensions...

What % of the BMW would have to be parts made in Japan (or China), before you could be persuaded into a test drive?
Approximately 30-45%. Ash tray has to be non-German.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:31 PM   #359
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Completely irrelevant reason to not buy a car award goes to orbitalellipses.

Seriously, be passionate about what you got to be passionate about, but wow.

My grandfather had to be hidden in a 5x4x3 space under the floor in the attic while the Netherlands were occupied because he was Jewish, not to mention friends and family who were caught and never returned. My dad's owned 3 vw vans. he gets something you don't, those companies are not run by the same people, don't have the same philosophy as they did, and so many other things that make your reason for discounting any German car completely silly.

Myself I don't buy German cars cause they're way too expensive and most are overweight.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:49 PM   #360
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Completely irrelevant reason to not buy a car award goes to orbitalellipses.

Seriously, be passionate about what you got to be passionate about, but wow.

My grandfather had to be hidden in a 5x4x3 space under the floor in the attic while the Netherlands were occupied because he was Jewish, not to mention friends and family who were caught and never returned. My dad's owned 3 vw vans. he gets something you don't, those companies are not run by the same people, don't have the same philosophy as they did, and so many other things that make your reason for discounting any German car completely silly.

Myself I don't buy German cars cause they're way too expensive and most are overweight.
:shrug: My parents don't buy German cars, but that's because they don't like how they ride. Realistically, they're expensive and you always have to drop $10K to equip them. Perhaps your father is smarter or indeed understands something, but I have to be passionate about something, right? I'm from a generation of dispassionate people for God's sake! Regardless of who runs those companies, it's ignorant to think that the influence of those people doesn't lurk in the halls of those companies. Remember, corporations are LEGALLY a person by our laws and we know people don't change...so why would a corporation change?

I'm tired of talking about this. The mule looks like a mule like I said a while ago.

I'll take the award though!
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:56 AM   #361
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Corporations are only legally a person to satisfy the 1%'s desires to flood elections with unlimited bribery in the form of campaign contributions. So don't try that line of argument.

Corporations are run by different people over time, and your reasoning is asinine. But since this is a free country and we definitely don't restrict stupidity, let's leave that argument alone and make guesses based on rumors that haven't leaked yet.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:34 AM   #362
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OE.. get real. You drive a Subaru.. formerly Nakajima Aircraft Company.. responsible for building the B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber that sunk or damaged 8 US warships in Pearl Harbor.. the only major attack on US territory during WWII.

BMW didn't build gas chambers or concentration camps.. the company even predates the Nazi Party. Subaru actually had a hand in killing American GIs.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:36 AM   #363
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #364
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OE.. get real. You drive a Subaru.. formerly Nakajima Aircraft Company.. responsible for building the B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber that sunk or damaged 8 US warships in Pearl Harbor.. the only major attack on US territory during WWII.

BMW didn't build gas chambers or concentration camps.. the company even predates the Nazi Party. Subaru actually had a hand in killing American GIs.

You're stretching there a bit. Subaru didn't exist until WELL after WWII. FIVE companies, including Nakajima, formed FHI because the U.S. forced the Japanese to do so.

My arguement is for the side that not the same people run these companies now. I have lived in Japan twice and they are absolutely WONDERFUL people. I bet the general public were wonderful back then. They were just taught by the military that Americans were savages.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #365
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So............

How about they put XMode in the new WRX? Sure it won't be able to effect the center diff, but the other aspects could be nice.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:05 AM   #366
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So............

How about they put XMode in the new WRX? Sure it won't be able to effect the center diff, but the other aspects could be nice.

I'm not sure what they would have in mind for the WRX but that would be an idea. It just seems to me that the WRX is already a capable off road performer and when it comes to the STI its no question. None the less, I imagine there will be some sort of evolution of the current AWD capabilities of both cars.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:10 AM   #367
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The WRX has it's faults from factory, the reason the newer 11+ models are so sought after (on top of the fact that they're very inexpensive) is a nice aggressive widebody, wider track, and most of all a huge potential to grow and improve. While stock they may handle worse than it's FWD competition, and brakes may be ****ty, all it takes are a good set of sway bars and hps pads to demolish its competition. And while it is considerably better than its competition in a straight line, all it takes for it to really stand way ahead of the competition is a downpipe and tune. And sure you can do the same to other cars, but they tend to hit walls in their performance way sooner in the mod path than the WRX. There are a lot of cars much better than the WRX, I'd be the first to say that, but I seldom see cars for the same price that are better than the WRX.
And another on topic: I think this statement sums up the WRX very well. My 07 punched above it's weight class once I modified suspension, front Stoptech BBK, and wheels/ tires. No engine mods other than a Cobb reflash. If only the new WRX would have a similar nice interior like the Impreza, a motor like, oh, the FB20 turbo in the 14 Forester, and handling/ brakes that don't go to mush when pushed hard . . . oh wait, would that be the upcoming STi?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:25 AM   #368
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Like I already said,

the WRX is a good car but needs modifications to be great...

I also said in a previous Golf R thread...

The WRX out of the box is not as good as many cars out of the box, but its modification ceiling is higher.

Some people are tired of having to modify a car to be the way they want it, when cars are currently built the way they want it and they can keep their factory warranty.

I will push back on that quote by the big evil foot (great name by the way!), the WRX is greatly improved with a set of pads and sways, but it is still not as good as some of the other FWD offerings out there. In order to make the WRX truely a cut above, you would need a full suspension swap, bigger front brakes, new tires, and maybe or maybe not a flash. The stock engine is pretty strong.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #369
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I essentially agree with what you're saying. While many people don't like modifying cars to make them better, there is a huge community just for people who buy these kind of cars to do that, hell, these cars are as close as they come to being marketed for that purpose. I can see why the Golf R appeals to you. It seems to be a great middle ground in which it still has that small peppy hot hatch-ness to it, yet doesn't lack in refinement, quality, or class, and is clearly a class above say the EVO and STI in those ways, and for which reason most people would prefer not to touch them. You can even look at a 335i, it has very good modability, but do most owners mod them (even "car people")? Probably not, because that takes away from that awesome OEM comfort. Now looking at the WRX, while most of my theories are forum based, we can all agree that a vast number of people on this forum own the 11 wrx, and many (if not the majority) have in some way modified their car, be it a short shifter, stage 2, sway bars, etc. People like the idea that their AWD 25k econobox car, with the proper modification, can upset a lot of people with 50k+ cars. Having said that, if I had a Golf R, I probably wouldn't do anything but maybe tints on it I guess in the end of the day all one can say to all these options are "to each his own." All these cars are so similar in a performance perspective when you add up all their pro's and con's, it really comes down to what one person likes and can justify.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:12 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
You're stretching there a bit. Subaru didn't exist until WELL after WWII. FIVE companies, including Nakajima, formed FHI because the U.S. forced the Japanese to do so.

My arguement is for the side that not the same people run these companies now. I have lived in Japan twice and they are absolutely WONDERFUL people. I bet the general public were wonderful back then. They were just taught by the military that Americans were savages.
For the most part the Germans were wonderful people as well.. you missed my point.. it's hypocritical to drive a Subaru which was started from the remains of Nakajima while being "morally opposed to" today's BMW AG which is the remains of the BMW that built aircraft engines for Messerschmitts and Heinkels.

The Holocaust wasn't even close to BMWs department.. and it was kept secret to most of the German people... just like the Japanese people living and working in Hiroshima had no idea that their military was committing atrocities all over the Pacific. If we want to start blaming 'a nation's people' for the horrible acts committed by a few.. lets take a look at the eugenics research done in the USA prior to the discovery of the Holocaust. For OE's sake, I hope he doesn't ever run into someone with a degree from one of the ivy league schools that lead research to 'prove' that certain 'races' were inferior to others.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post

Because you're advocating we forget atrocities that man commits against man? Atrocities as recently as 1940 even. Please, let's take this to OT if you want to go down that path.

To be quite fair, you use past tense while mentioning Japanese and PRESENT tense when mentioning Virginia and slave ownership...you ****ed that up yourself. Getting back to Germany; BMW supplied the Wehrmacht, VWAG (parent company of Audi AG, or the other way around?) was der Fuhror's ride, while Benz was popular with many National Socialist elite as well, while the founder of Porsche (also owned by VWAG/Audi AG now) took assignments from der Fuhror. It's not wanton hate, it's SPECIFIC.
The only atrocity that I currently care about, in this forum anyway, is why the heck can't Subaru show us something about the new WRX/STi!!!

Get Back on topic!

Last edited by nashcarr; 01-22-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #372
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That's why I drive a Mitsubishi.





































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Old 01-22-2013, 10:20 AM   #373
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Godwin´s law at it´s finest

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Old 01-22-2013, 10:20 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
New line of questioning to ease the tensions...

What % of the BMW would have to be parts made in Japan (or China), before you could be persuaded into a test drive?
Lol!!!!
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:24 AM   #375
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That's why I drive a Mitsubishi.



torquemada.. I don't think that applies if the non-sequitur side-conversation was about the Nazis to begin with.
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