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Old 03-22-2013, 12:23 PM   #1551
manticus
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Yeah, you hit a point where you grow up and the STi no longer makes sense. Hell, I've got an 04 and with my commute I feel it's wasted on me. I've autocrossed it (Loads of fun), but I can have the same ifnot more in a slower car. Driving a slow car fast is arguably more fun than a fast car slow.

The entire car/experience becomes a waste. Waste of gas, the hard/rattle suspension gets annoying, maintenance, etc. For what? It never sees a race-track making the entire affair pointless. I went through this relevation last year. I know udnerstand why people complain about hard suspensions, why people want comfortable cars etc. It caters to the 99.9999999999 percent fot eh time you're NOT on a track.
Well, as people get older their bones creak a little more, they have kids and a wife that they have to cart around... it's just natural that people want more comfort as they reach different times in their lives. I remember really LOVING the look of the '04 STI (and it's what made me fall in love with the brand), but to be honest - I'd never buy one. No amount of Uncle Scotty reprimands about new cars being absolute crap compared to older models, I just don't value the boy-racer image with zero utility enough to put my money into one.

Me, I'm 34 and my wife and I have no intention of ever having kids so we're enjoying bombing around in a very useful and utilitarian, AWD hatch. As for the track? I won't track it until it's out of warranty for sure and after some training courses. As for the "wasted potential" of not tracking it regularly? I call BS - I'm not driving a Radical SR8 or a GT2 here, it's a tarted up econobox with some go-fast bits, a nice suspension, and a 6-speed gearbox. There's an everyday difference between this and the WRX that I enjoy, regardless of what people think about track potential.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:24 PM   #1552
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Being a first time Subaru owner with a 2012 Impreza Sport, I am liking the new look of the 14 Forester and the styling direction Subaru is moving towards and I think the next gen WRX will not disappoint (at least in my eyes).
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #1553
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I'm only looking to upgrade to a STI because I got the autocross/rallycross bug. I'm in CO and rallycross/snowcross are very popular and I spend a lot of time doing these events. We have different reasons for purchasing our cars. That said, what STI did you own? I'm on the fence between a 06/07 with money left over for mods and a '13/'14.
I've been autocrossing for 11 years. My STI (an '08) was the single worst car I've ever autocrossed. Get the '06/'07 w/ mods if you want to have fun autocrossing an STI... get an '05 if you really want a good autocross car (the rear bias center diff in the '05 gives you more rotation). The wheelbase is too long and the weight is too great and the turbo is too big for the '08+ STI to be competitive around the cones.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:02 PM   #1554
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Well, as people get older their bones creak a little more, they have kids and a wife that they have to cart around... it's just natural that people want more comfort as they reach different times in their lives. I remember really LOVING the look of the '04 STI (and it's what made me fall in love with the brand), but to be honest - I'd never buy one. No amount of Uncle Scotty reprimands about new cars being absolute crap compared to older models, I just don't value the boy-racer image with zero utility enough to put my money into one.

Me, I'm 34 and my wife and I have no intention of ever having kids so we're enjoying bombing around in a very useful and utilitarian, AWD hatch. As for the track? I won't track it until it's out of warranty for sure and after some training courses. As for the "wasted potential" of not tracking it regularly? I call BS - I'm not driving a Radical SR8 or a GT2 here, it's a tarted up econobox with some go-fast bits, a nice suspension, and a 6-speed gearbox. There's an everyday difference between this and the WRX that I enjoy, regardless of what people think about track potential.

I'm 25. It's got nothing to do with the "Boy Racer" image or the fact I'm getting old. I don't see the point of having the ability to go 0-60 in 5 seconds when I never use it. I never use the ability to stop with the brakes (though panic stops are excluded). I never use the ability to exploit the suspension, the 6-speed etc. They are literally a penalty. They cause my lower mpgs. Period. Why buy a GT2 that does 200mph if you never go beyond the speed limit? Why buy a GT2 that never sees a race-track like it's designed, and it's only driven around town. Sure, a 1st/2nd gear pull here and there, but that's it.

Zero Utility? it's an AWD sedan with 300hp. That's the whole point of the car. If you're referring to hauling home a couch or something, then you're not going to find anything that fits that catagory. Yes mpg sucks but it's an ancient engine and the driveline is outdated. Effective, but old.

I never said a WRX was "wasted potential", but something like the STi is. Do you have a WRX or an STi? You say WRX, but you mention 6-speed. THe WRX is a great car, the STi is great fun. The problem is you never exploit the advantages of the STi over the WRX (now especialy given they're running teh same damn power) unless you track that car. Even then you have to be a good enough driver to exploit the two. If you're a ****ty driver it doesn't mean **** that you have an STi. My first time out at autocross I got killed by a Mini (not even an S). Fastest time was an EVO IX MR and he was like 8 seconds faster than me.


Only gripe I have about modern cars is I think they're too safe, I don't like all the safety regulations ruining the style/weight of modern cars.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:47 PM   #1555
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Nah. I just have a weird feeling I'll be smiling about something about this new car. My thoughts are, why would they have taken this long on this if it weren't going to be spectacular? Just some good feelings. That's all. Sorry for stirring anything.
Lol, u did it again....got my hopes up
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #1556
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I'm 25. It's got nothing to do with the "Boy Racer" image or the fact I'm getting old. I don't see the point of having the ability to go 0-60 in 5 seconds when I never use it. I never use the ability to stop with the brakes (though panic stops are excluded). I never use the ability to exploit the suspension, the 6-speed etc. They are literally a penalty. They cause my lower mpgs. Period. Why buy a GT2 that does 200mph if you never go beyond the speed limit? Why buy a GT2 that never sees a race-track like it's designed, and it's only driven around town. Sure, a 1st/2nd gear pull here and there, but that's it.

Zero Utility? it's an AWD sedan with 300hp. That's the whole point of the car. If you're referring to hauling home a couch or something, then you're not going to find anything that fits that catagory. Yes mpg sucks but it's an ancient engine and the driveline is outdated. Effective, but old.

I never said a WRX was "wasted potential", but something like the STi is. Do you have a WRX or an STi? You say WRX, but you mention 6-speed. THe WRX is a great car, the STi is great fun. The problem is you never exploit the advantages of the STi over the WRX (now especialy given they're running teh same damn power) unless you track that car. Even then you have to be a good enough driver to exploit the two. If you're a ****ty driver it doesn't mean **** that you have an STi. My first time out at autocross I got killed by a Mini (not even an S). Fastest time was an EVO IX MR and he was like 8 seconds faster than me.


Only gripe I have about modern cars is I think they're too safe, I don't like all the safety regulations ruining the style/weight of modern cars.
Manti has the STI.

I vote that if you want power AND utility AND improved gas mileage, get the WRX sedan or hatch.

If you want Subaru's flagship of power and AWD performance, I think utility and mileage can be sacrificed for that cause. The other vehicles in the fleet are pulling enough weight now in getting better MPG that the STI can continue to slack a little for those of us that want something that handles close to a BRZ, but moves like an STI should: All-weather confidence and power to plow through.

There are those that want STI-power, performance and technology, but still want the utility and better gas mileage... To me, THAT'S the dream and not a compromise. Again, get the WRX for one purpose and the STI should be a whole other ball game. No utility and comfort for you!
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:26 PM   #1557
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Maybe they have taken so long because they "cant get it right"????

I am remaining optomistic until next week when it is revealed.
Well, that kinda goes along with that. They are taking long to "get it right" because during the process, they weren't getting it right. That's Subaru though. Thoroughly test things before they come out so they don't have reliability issues.

Everyone that wants to go ahead and waste time typing about ringlands and so forth, go ahead. You are in the minority. Just saw a new claim from Subaru. That "96% of all Subaru's sold in the last 10 years are still on the road" advertising? That claim just went to 12 years. Unless it was a typo. If it is, then it is a typo all 630ish dealers will have.

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I'm optimistic as well, Subaru has really been on a roll.

I don't think they've been giving it extra time, I just think they've been busy. I imagine it's been quite a ride the past few years with so many important new vehicles launching. Though I do feel it will have been well overdue assuming deliveries begin summer '14.

Anyhow, I hope they don't over-think it.
I would think the WRX/STI team are separate from those other cars. A dedicated team to work on that.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:20 PM   #1558
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I'm 25. It's got nothing to do with the "Boy Racer" image or the fact I'm getting old. I don't see the point of having the ability to go 0-60 in 5 seconds when I never use it. I never use the ability to stop with the brakes (though panic stops are excluded). I never use the ability to exploit the suspension, the 6-speed etc. They are literally a penalty. They cause my lower mpgs. Period. Why buy a GT2 that does 200mph if you never go beyond the speed limit? Why buy a GT2 that never sees a race-track like it's designed, and it's only driven around town. Sure, a 1st/2nd gear pull here and there, but that's it.
So do you not pass anyone? In my 30 mile commute on two lane roads there are only a few safe places to pass so you need to have the power to do so. What happens if you have to do an avoidance maneuver? It’s going to be a lot better in an STI than a Camry. What happens if the kids in the back are distracting you and you turn back around and have to stop quickly? The brakes come in handy then.

The only thing I want out of my next car as I’m getting older (43 this year) is the same functionality or more than my 08 STI along with more refinement, tech and speed. Yes I have a stage 1 STI and it’s not fast enough. And no I don’t track it/race it.

As to the practicality you don’t always want to haul a couch or sheet goods, sometimes you have something 4-5 feet long and 2-3’ tall/wide. Guess what it doesn’t fit in a sedan but it does a hatch. I just did this a month ago hauling acoustical insulation for my home theater.

Give me a Legacy wagon STI with Twin-Turbo boxer 6, 450hp and a quality interior and I’d be set.

Last edited by design1stcode2nd; 03-22-2013 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:31 PM   #1559
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...................
Give me a Legacy wagon STI with Twin-Turbo boxer 6, 450hp and a quality interior and I’d be set.
I'll take a sedan version of that!
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:36 PM   #1560
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I think that Subaru needs to "WOW" us, the enthusiasts, or the WRX/STI will have a really tough row to hoe. And yes, I am old enough to say that. Without a 2002 type release, as a separate car line the WRX/STI won't survive. There are just to many new cars that can challenge or beat the WRX/STI in almost every category, except maybe AWD.

Have they really announced a Concept performance unveiling. Is there any real chance it is the next WRX/STI?
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:18 PM   #1561
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Old man you speak for me from now on..lol

Too many good cars out right now, that do a good job but lack AWD. If you're like me and you live in a region that its not entirely a must, then a Golf R or Focus ST is looking pretty good right about now; much less by 2015 when the Focus RS and next Golf R should arrive.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:17 PM   #1562
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Yep, lots of cars are very interesting. I have had my eyes on the Fiesta ST and the BRZ if they can up more hp without a turbo. I have a checkered past with hatchbacks going back to a 1972 Pinto 3 door Station wagon. I appreciate the utility, but don't need it anymore. This is a new car, a new car line for Subaru. Why follow an old formula.They have multiple utility vehicles and one absolutely non utility car. Personally, I think the BRZ could very well disappear if they do the WRX/STI right. Although a money maker, it is a Toyota and Subaru could blow it out of the water with the right car.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:41 AM   #1563
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
There are those that want STI-power, performance and technology, but still want the utility and better gas mileage... To me, THAT'S the dream and not a compromise. Again, get the WRX for one purpose and the STI should be a whole other ball game. No utility and comfort for you!
Remember: STI is not a stand-alone model, it is a trim of various models. I don't think Subaru could make a stand-alone unique-body-style STI profitable anyway. Volume is just not there, and Subaru has seen what happens when they try to go upmarket with the pricing instead. Subaru is a VALUE brand, not a caché brand. For an STI version to be a good value, it can't be a stand-alone model, IMHO. (They'd have to name it something different besides "STI" anyway... that'd be way to confusing to have a model named "STI" and trims of others also called "STI" .)
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:33 AM   #1564
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I think that Subaru needs to "WOW" us, the enthusiasts, or the WRX/STI will have a really tough row to hoe. And yes, I am old enough to say that. Without a 2002 type release, as a separate car line the WRX/STI won't survive. There are just to many new cars that can challenge or beat the WRX/STI in almost every category, except maybe AWD.



Have they really announced a Concept performance unveiling. Is there any real chance it is the next WRX/STI?

I tried to make a point a while ago stating that for the same or less money there are better options out there in regards to performance, quality and bang for the buck than the STI and even the WRX.

Unfortunately none of those competitors save for the Golf R are AWD ( I don't count the ralliart as a competitor) if that is what you prefer. If TRD or STi start producing more options for the toyobaru then I don't see a point in ever buying a wrx/sti for track use anymore.

For 33-35k MSRP you should be getting a far better quality performance vehicle than what they currently offer. Obviously some people will disagree but anyone with a truly unbiased opinion wouldn't.
Subaru needs to seriously update the designs and hire a few engineers that know how to design a car that meets all the regulations they have to meet while improving in major areas of the cars.

I would love to buy a STI to be honest, but it would need to fit most of a criteria I think would make it worth trading in my WRX for. If they cannot produce something to that effect then I will just mod my car to my liking (includes a custom 6 speed in the future) and it will be my last Subaru. Currently the WRX fits all my needs and has few of the things I wanted but if I was going to buy for the purpose of a more track minded car the following list is what I would like to see and would want.

The Criteria I mentioned is this:

The car cannot weigh anymore than 3200 lbs fully loaded (My stock base WRX weighs this much). I would love to see the STI closer to 3000 lbs stock but that would put its base price closer to 40k. There are many ways to reduce weight, I wont go into detail except mention size, design and construction materials.

The quality of the interior (nicer materials, styling, add recaros/get rid of the fat boy seats and better fit/finish).

Higher quality paint job (currently way too thin and chips easily).

Tune out the understeer through the suspension a bit from the factory.

Brakes that are more fade resistant (as much as people fap to brembos the majority of said peope don't realize that they don't help you stop any quicker on the street and do not help at all in autox, they still are coupled with crap pads, rotors, lines and a firewall flex to creep anyone out in the middle of a panic stop anyways, those other parts are what needs improving to reduce the brake fade issue).

Make ring land issues a thing of the past (they could have solved this with forged pistons in the EJ25 from the beginning).

Possibly design a replacement for the current 6 speed that is a slight improvement or similar while being a little lighter. Legacy Spec B gearing and incorporating a DCCD that has a 35F/65R torque split again (best DCCD imo due to how much more rotation you could get out of the car) would be optimal.

Ditch the 4 and 5 doors for 2 and 3 door models, 3 door hatch and 2 door fast back. A vehicle designed to be competitive in WRC will not be competitive with heavy body styles versus the lightweight 2 and 3 door models running today. A dedicated performance car should be designed like one and not like some tarted up econobox. If you want utility buy something else.

Improve the MPGs a bit to 23c/28hw and you got me hooked.

If they did anything remotely close to this the WRX/STI would dominate the market again for performance cars under 30k and 40k.

Flame suit on, but you all can tell this is just wishful thinking. At 35k if the car came with all of this and didn't look like a bag of asses I would be the first to make an order rather than build my car to meet my standards in what I would want in an affordable AWD performance car.

Last edited by Lrn2Corner; 03-23-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:50 AM   #1565
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Is that you Hip?
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #1566
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if the WRX/STI arent the dominate performance car in that price range, what is?

mustang gt? 370z? neither available in awd so their market is limited.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:06 AM   #1567
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Is that you Hip?
Doesn't matter if it is or isn't, I think that he's right. Of course some will disagree, and want a car that remains cheap in cost and goes about this by cutting cost in every which way. I liked my 06 STI but not enough for me to be blinded to you obvious; Subaru needs to do better.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:08 AM   #1568
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Is that you Hip?
No, H2BS would've filled in all those blank lines with dense typeage.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #1569
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if the WRX/STI arent the dominate performance car in that price range, what is?

mustang gt? 370z? neither available in awd so their market is limited.
Not everyone needs AWD, or an all out performance car. They might have the fastest 0-60 but that isn't everything. Don't get me wrong though, I hope I love the next WRX.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #1570
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if the WRX/STI arent the dominate performance car in that price range, what is?

mustang gt? 370z? neither available in awd so their market is limited.
Actually I think the Subaru is in the limited market with its AWD. When the WRX was introduced it would kick ass in the "pocket rocket" class despite its AWD, not because of it. It had its AWD Rally winning roots to draw on. Kind of hard to do that now. Sure they can point to their US dominance, but that is not the world stage and they haven't really shown much in World Rallycross.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:19 AM   #1571
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I really think the Golf R should be the standard for fit, finish and quality for Subaru to march toward. They have the performance part down. They have the reliability down. They just need to up their game in the refinement category.

I think the pricing will stay the same, but you can simply forget ever seeing a 2 or 3 door only WRX and STI. People want the practicality and do anything nature of these 4 and 5 door bodies. It is a livable performance car, that makes sense to many demographics. Making it only a 2 or 3 door is just marketing stupidity for Subaru. If you have some psychological need for a 2 door and for some reason you hate 4 doors I cannot help you.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:19 AM   #1572
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Not everyone needs AWD, or an all out performance car. They might have the fastest 0-60 but that isn't everything. Don't get me wrong though, I hope I love the next WRX.
This is the case with me. I don't need AWD or an all out performance car. Besides, the class of car is already being dominated by cars that cost 3 to 4 times more than even the STI; Subaru can't compete with that, therefore they need to focus on competition in this current class.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #1573
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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
I think that Subaru needs to "WOW" us, the enthusiasts, or the WRX/STI will have a really tough row to hoe. And yes, I am old enough to say that. Without a 2002 type release, as a separate car line the WRX/STI won't survive. There are just to many new cars that can challenge or beat the WRX/STI in almost every category, except maybe AWD.

Have they really announced a Concept performance unveiling. Is there any real chance it is the next WRX/STI?
For the bold, look below. For that last sentence, yes.

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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
Yep, lots of cars are very interesting. I have had my eyes on the Fiesta ST and the BRZ if they can up more hp without a turbo. I have a checkered past with hatchbacks going back to a 1972 Pinto 3 door Station wagon. I appreciate the utility, but don't need it anymore. This is a new car, a new car line for Subaru. Why follow an old formula.They have multiple utility vehicles and one absolutely non utility car. Personally, I think the BRZ could very well disappear if they do the WRX/STI right. Although a money maker, it is a Toyota and Subaru could blow it out of the water with the right car.
I don't think the BRZ will disappear as long as they are making it for Toyota.

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Not everyone needs AWD, or an all out performance car. They might have the fastest 0-60 but that isn't everything. Don't get me wrong though, I hope I love the next WRX.
But he said "bang for your buck" which encompasses everything. At that price range, I can't think of anything else that gives you EVERYTHING a WRX/STI does. EVO doesn't even really do it since there is no hatch version. Is there something faster? Yes. Something that handles better? Yes. Something with AWD? Yes. Something cheaper? Yes. Something with better interior? Yes. Something that gives you ALL of that in one package? No.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:33 AM   #1574
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post

But he said "bang for your buck" which encompasses everything. At that price range, I can't think of anything else that gives you EVERYTHING a WRX/STI does. EVO doesn't even really do it since there is no hatch version. Is there something faster? Yes. Something that handles better? Yes. Something with AWD? Yes. Something cheaper? Yes. Something with better interior? Yes. Something that gives you ALL of that in one package? No.
Fair enough. The WRX has always been the perfect car for me because of what you mentioned. I had an 05 wagon for a few years that I loved to death. I regret getting rid of it for the '11 hatch, but I didn't have much choice as it was burning a lot of oil. The '11 wasn't a big enough change for me, and I probably shouldn't have gotten a base model, but oh well. I'm hoping they wow me with the next release
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:10 PM   #1575
cannedtuna
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I really think the Golf R should be the standard for fit, finish and quality for Subaru to march toward. They have the performance part down. They have the reliability down. They just need to up their game in the refinement category.

I think the pricing will stay the same, but you can simply forget ever seeing a 2 or 3 door only WRX and STI. People want the practicality and do anything nature of these 4 and 5 door bodies. It is a livable performance car, that makes sense to many demographics. Making it only a 2 or 3 door is just marketing stupidity for Subaru. If you have some psychological need for a 2 door and for some reason you hate 4 doors I cannot help you.
Agreed....
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