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Old 01-10-2013, 08:18 PM   #26
quentinberg007
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Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
If the grand cherokee diesel can hit 32mpg and tow more than that, then a frontier should be able to. The grand cherokee diesel is rated 32mpg on the european highway test, gas cars usually show up with less mpg in the EPA test, but maybe a diesel will hold steady since 80% of vehicles are diesel in europe and the tests are more set up for diesel.
All the euro mpg ratings are ridiculously optimistic... diesel or gas.

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Originally Posted by lawn boy
my next car WILL be the 4banger diesel 3 series or the grand cherokee diesel...i drive 80 miles/day and need the mpg/torque combo
Need or want? If you need the fuel savings, you probably don't need a $40k SUV.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
All the euro mpg ratings are ridiculously optimistic... diesel or gas.



Need or want? If you need the fuel savings, you probably don't need a $40k SUV.
Yea, but american fuel ratings for diesels are always low. The passat and jetta for example are consistantly 9-13mpg less than they actually can get in real life without even trying. I went on a 4 hour roadtrip with my coworker which was 99% turnpike driving. We literally filled at the onramp to the toll, and filled right when we got off the turnpike. The cruise was set at 70mph We averaged 52mpg using the classic miles taken/gallons used method. The epa rates it at 43mpg, which is total bull because people consistantly get better without trying.

so if euro is optomistic, and epa is pessimistic, then they average in the middle at about 30mpg.

Your statement of a $40k vehicle is flawed. Shortly after the cherokee, they'll be releasing the durango in diesel for 2014. If you are buying an suv anyways, the extra upcharge for a diesel will be what, $3000? If you play the numbers at today's fuel prices i calculate $14,814 in diesel for 100k miles and $17,750 for gasoline 87 octane. So you recoup your costs at 100k miles which is about 4-5 years of driving(i also drive 70-100 miles per day minimum). So the costs savings will be for the next 100k miles, factor in a turbo replacement in there. But here's the kicker, if you also tow a travel trailer such as i, this would make a phenomenal dual duty vehicle. Currently i have 2 vehicles, 1 for commuting and the other for towing. If you decided to sell your diesel at any time, the resale value is rediculous and trying to buy one used at blue book value is next to impossible unless you find a quick sale or problems in the vehicle.

Many people like myself would love to have an suv and i could afford the suv and the fuel at todays prices, but i'm worried fuel will go up and i'll be stuck trading it in and taking a loss.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:26 PM   #28
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Problem is, I want 30 mpg highway when i'm not towing, and a decent mpg when towing, like 15 or more. And i need to tow about 5,500 lbs, so a Canyon is out of the question. I think the right diesel in a 1500 pickup could get 30 highway and still be rated to tow 7,000 -- or am I wrong?
Hard to say. In the end it will come down to weight to get the efficiency you want. The Colorado / Canyon chassis should very easily support the weight of a 5000-7000lb trailer. What limits towing capacity now is the engine output and driveline strength. Drop in a 2.0L turbo diesel putting out 350lb-ft of torque and run that through some torque friendly gear multiplication and it should have no trouble moving the mass. The advantage at this point is the Colorado / Canyon extended cab 4x4 starts out ~1300lbs lighter than an extended cab 4x4 1500 series. The smaller pickup will make a much better daily commuter in terms of size, and the lighter mass will definitely provide better fuel economy.


**According to GMC website the current production Canyon with 3.7L I-5 can tow 5000lb in x-cab 4x4 trim. Not far off the target and a diesel should offer more torque and better fuel efficiency.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:10 AM   #29
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The day Jeep offers me a diesel Wrangler is the day they get my money. Not a moment before.

I would also love to see a diesel Tacoma/Hilux, but Toyota would ask $40k+ for it.
took the words out of my mouth

Also, the article says the Jeep GC will have 400 lb-ft of torque, and get 39 mpg?
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post

Yea, but american fuel ratings for diesels are always low. The passat and jetta for example are consistantly 9-13mpg less than they actually can get in real life without even trying. I went on a 4 hour roadtrip with my coworker which was 99% turnpike driving. We literally filled at the onramp to the toll, and filled right when we got off the turnpike. The cruise was set at 70mph We averaged 52mpg using the classic miles taken/gallons used method. The epa rates it at 43mpg, which is total bull because people consistantly get better without trying.

so if euro is optomistic, and epa is pessimistic, then they average in the middle at about 30mpg.

Your statement of a $40k vehicle is flawed. Shortly after the cherokee, they'll be releasing the durango in diesel for 2014. If you are buying an suv anyways, the extra upcharge for a diesel will be what, $3000? If you play the numbers at today's fuel prices i calculate $14,814 in diesel for 100k miles and $17,750 for gasoline 87 octane. So you recoup your costs at 100k miles which is about 4-5 years of driving(i also drive 70-100 miles per day minimum). So the costs savings will be for the next 100k miles, factor in a turbo replacement in there. But here's the kicker, if you also tow a travel trailer such as i, this would make a phenomenal dual duty vehicle. Currently i have 2 vehicles, 1 for commuting and the other for towing. If you decided to sell your diesel at any time, the resale value is rediculous and trying to buy one used at blue book value is next to impossible unless you find a quick sale or problems in the vehicle.

Many people like myself would love to have an suv and i could afford the suv and the fuel at todays prices, but i'm worried fuel will go up and i'll be stuck trading it in and taking a loss.
Fuelly shows the diesel Jetta just below the EPA highway rating per the user data rather than your ideal condition anecdote. Just because your buddy got 50mpg on a 55mph trip through the Midwest doesn't mean that you average 50mpg all the time. Most cars blow away their EPA rating in those conditions. In the real world where people don't have hundreds of miles of non stop steady state, the numbers are pretty spot on for the EPA. Balantz averaged 43 or so in his TDI Golf.

A diesel Jeep might be just fine for you. I was just commenting on how someone needs a certain MPG in their $40k vehicle.

Last edited by quentinberg007; 01-11-2013 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:01 PM   #31
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Woo!!!!

1998 H1 6.5TD/4 speed/all time 4WD was 15mpg at 80mph. Any light duty truck with the ability to use 2WD in a diesel should be able to get close to 30mpg at 65-70mpg.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by White out View Post
Woo!!!!

1998 H1 6.5TD/4 speed/all time 4WD was 15mpg at 80mph. Any light duty truck with the ability to use 2WD in a diesel should be able to get close to 30mpg at 65-70mpg.
That's why the Mahindra was rated at 19/21/20 MPG, right?

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....n=sbs&id=31044

Last edited by shikataganai; 01-12-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:47 AM   #33
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The truly sad part about the diesels being released in the states is that Subaru isn't releasing their 2.0 turbo diesel boxer in the states. For sale in Europe, but not in the states. If I had the money to purchase and have shipped I would buy this one- http://mobile.motors.co.uk/Vehicle/Index/31904415 but trying to get it from the uk after dropping 22k USD the shipping cost to the states then transportation to my location, expensive!
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:50 AM   #34
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The truly sad part about the diesels being released in the states is that Subaru isn't releasing their 2.0 turbo diesel boxer in the states. For sale in Europe, but not in the states. If I had the money to purchase and have shipped I would buy this one- http://mobile.motors.co.uk/Vehicle/Index/31904415 but trying to get it from the uk after dropping 22k USD the shipping cost to the states then transportation to my location, expensive!
The shipping cost isn't the issue. Getting it Federalized (hint: you can't afford it ) is.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:04 AM   #35
gggplaya
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Fuelly shows the diesel Jetta just below the EPA highway rating per the user data rather than your ideal condition anecdote. Just because your buddy got 50mpg on a 55mph trip through the Midwest doesn't mean that you average 50mpg all the time. Most cars blow away their EPA rating in those conditions. In the real world where people don't have hundreds of miles of non stop steady state, the numbers are pretty spot on for the EPA. Balantz averaged 43 or so in his TDI Golf.

A diesel Jeep might be just fine for you. I was just commenting on how someone needs a certain MPG in their $40k vehicle.
It's hard to take data on Fuelly at face value because you don't know the conditions of the drive, like how fast they drive, did they use cruise, did they pass alot etc....

However, Consumer Reports rates the Passat TDI at 51MPG highway which is on par with what we got. I'm not sure why the passat gets better fuel mileage than the jetta(EPA rated higher for passat too), perhaps it's the aerodynamics of a wider and longer car. But on the highway, the fuel mileage of the passat is consistently better on the highway than EPA rating. This is because EPA ratings are done on a dyno in a lab.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...nomy/index.htm
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by UVRUGBY View Post
The truly sad part about the diesels being released in the states is that Subaru isn't releasing their 2.0 turbo diesel boxer in the states. For sale in Europe, but not in the states. If I had the money to purchase and have shipped I would buy this one- http://mobile.motors.co.uk/Vehicle/Index/31904415 but trying to get it from the uk after dropping 22k USD the shipping cost to the states then transportation to my location, expensive!
They will in time bring their diesel over to the U.S. as long as buyers are willing to pay the extra premium for diesel fuel and initial extra cost of the vehicle.

In 2015 Euro6 emmission will be on par with the U.S. emissions due to change in 2016. So basically all the engine equipment for europe will not need to be modified to work in the U.S.. They can essentially sell the same exact engine with all the same parts, and the same tune. Getting it federally certified is not a big deal because all the R&D to make it U.S. compliant is essentially done.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:00 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
All the euro mpg ratings are ridiculously optimistic... diesel or gas.
1 Imperial gallon = 1.2 US gallons
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:10 AM   #38
gggplaya
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
All the euro mpg ratings are ridiculously optimistic... diesel or gas.



Need or want? If you need the fuel savings, you probably don't need a $40k SUV.
Grand cherokee is rated for 32MPG 2WD in europe, it's rated for 30MPG 2Wd in the U.S. It's pretty close and since every diesel in the states seems to get better than EPA ratings, i'm sure the 32mpg rating is more accurate. The EPA rating procedure underrates diesels, even consumer reports says that, it's mostly accurate for NA gas cars.

Also, you don't buy the diesel engine to save on fuel costs. It'll take about 100k-150k miles just to recoupe the extra cost of the engine. You buy it to tow with or for people that drive alot where extended range is desired. The grand cherokee does 730miles per tank in diesel, and has the ability to tow your boat, race car, toy hauler or travel trailer during your weekends or vacation. You buy it for your lifestyle, not really to save money.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:53 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
They will in time bring their diesel over to the U.S. as long as buyers are willing to pay the extra premium for diesel fuel and initial extra cost of the vehicle.

In 2015 Euro6 emmission will be on par with the U.S. emissions due to change in 2016. So basically all the engine equipment for europe will not need to be modified to work in the U.S.. They can essentially sell the same exact engine with all the same parts, and the same tune. Getting it federally certified is not a big deal because all the R&D to make it U.S. compliant is essentially done.
Well with diesel being at what it is, diesel is huge in utah. There are diesel trucks all over the place, as well as the VW TDI. So I do believe that there is a need for a AWD diesel car here in the states. Especially with the gas mileage and power diesels are able to produce over the petrol and hybrid engines.
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