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Old 01-08-2013, 10:34 AM   #1
ricepapertiger
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Default Idler pulley exploded, Need some advice with timing.

So about a month and a half ago, we picked up my buddy's 2.5RS from DC and drove it back 100 some miles to Virginia Beach area. He brought it into his workplace, his boss checked it out with his stethoscope, and said the idlers were in rough shape, but ok for a little while longer. So of course, the next morning, my friend started the car, let it warm up, forgot something in the house, shut it off, came out, and it wouldn't start again. It would cough out the intake, so we figured the timing was retarded.


We opened up the timing covers and found ball bearings everywhere, including wedged under the timing belt. The bearing on the idler attached to the water pump had completely taken a crap.

I wiggled the driver side cam while we were taking off the belt, and it shot down counterclockwise to its current position (see pictures)

We installed the new Gates timing kit with water pump, and here we are. I'm trying to figure out the safest way to set the timing on the motor.

Should we rotate the crank and the cams so that they are up and aligned? And which way should we rotate?
Also, the main pulley doesn't have any marks other than the little angle or A pointing the same way as the passenger side cam mark.

Well, here are pics. Need some advice so we can get this motor working again to see if there's any damage done. Thanks!






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Old 01-08-2013, 10:47 AM   #2
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Each cam sprocket has lines that are stamped on them then usually have yellow paint over them, have those two pointing up with the lines on the back of the cover/block which would be straight up, as for the crank, the line isn't actually on the gear, it's on the collar behind the gear and should be slightly off to the right when its pointing straight up.

I'm not sure what year engine this is though but I think after 95/96 the engines are interfering and being an rs 97+ I'm sure it is so make sure the pistons are not at tdc when any of the valves are down (I've haven't done timing on interference engines yet so I'm not 100% sure the way it's done)

Last edited by alt14; 01-08-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:50 AM   #3
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This is an EJ251 out of a 2000 RS
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:53 AM   #4
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What I thought it is an interface engine, I had the hardest time on my friends legacy thinking that the line on the crank gear was the timing line.

Was there any kind of unusual noise in that time it was last running, did the belt look damaged or loose to the point it could have missed a few teeth?
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:00 AM   #5
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Yeah, when trying to crank over it would just whine and struggle.

Took off the timing covers and tension was obviously super loose since one of the idler's bearings failed. Pretty sure it jumped more than a couple teeth. And now the timing's even more off since I moved the driver side cam
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:17 AM   #6
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You should remove the crankshaft pulley, you want to be able to see the crankshaft sprocket, which has the timing mark on it.

The following three pictures indicate nicely what it is supposed to look like when the motor is in time. I would advise trying to line up the camshaft sprockets first, very slowly. Remember, you can rotate the engine crankshaft in either direction at this point, so let it do the least travelling to get to the timing mark. If you feel resistance, don't force anything!





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Old 01-08-2013, 11:28 AM   #7
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The arrow printed on your crank is in a different place in relation to the timing mark on the collar in the back then mine is.. odd

Hopefully none of the valves bent when it broke
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:42 AM   #8
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Sweet, thanks for the pics and advice, I'm gonna go head to the garage to do some work on the Legacy and mess with the RS. I'll be back if I need more help.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:20 PM   #9
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If the idler failed and the car shut off and wouldn't start, I'm going to almost guarantee that there are bent valves.

Put the crank into position first since it moves the pistons safely out of the way of the valves. The drivers side cam will have valves open when the timing mark is in position, this is why it's hard to get there and it likes to jump off the mark.

You can retime the motor and attempt to fire it up, but I would anticipate pulling the heads off to replace a few valves.

Jay
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
If the idler failed and the car shut off and wouldn't start, I'm going to almost guarantee that there are bent valves.

Put the crank into position first since it moves the pistons safely out of the way of the valves. The drivers side cam will have valves open when the timing mark is in position, this is why it's hard to get there and it likes to jump off the mark.

You can retime the motor and attempt to fire it up, but I would anticipate pulling the heads off to replace a few valves.

Jay
+1....if you get it running but it seems "off", do a compression check. A bent valve/valves will show up as lower compression in those cylinders.

A leak down test will also show this.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #11
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Ok, I got the timing belt on, all marks lined up, rotated the crank through a few cycles, no noises, and the marks lined up after those cycles. We need a few more replacement parts before we can get everything back on and start up the car, but almost there.

As for the bent valves, hopefully we won't have that problem since the car was sitting idling, then my friend turned off the car himself, then it wouldn't start a minute later. I wasn't there myself, but I'm just hoping it just jumped the timing when the motor was being shut off.

:fingers crossed:

We should be getting everything back in the car today though, so I'll be updating this with info!
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:00 PM   #12
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Good luck man.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:31 PM   #13
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Fingers crossed for ya. You can do a compression/leakdown test without having to start it up.

Jay
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #14
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Got everything back on yesterday, car runs like a champ. Had to clean all the oil out of the spark plug boots and the spark plug slots, so I'm thinking valve stem seals. Didn't check compression though, I'll hit my buddy up to do that later.

Car isn't charging though, so new alternator is going in there soon. And the clutch is super soft and smelly. That's another project... ha. Good times.

Thanks again for all the help guys
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #15
T Wrex--OH
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The oil in the spark plug tubes is most likely the fault of the spark plug "gaskets", not the valve stem seals.

Glad to hear it runs okay and I look foward to seeing some compression test results.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Wrex--OH View Post
The oil in the spark plug tubes is most likely the fault of the spark plug "gaskets", not the valve stem seals.
Yeah when I ordered all the other parts, I had bought the valve cover gasket and spark plug gasket kit along with them since it was cheap and this motor needs a good once-over. Hopefully it's that, and we won't have to do any headwork.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #17
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Nice! It usually goes the other way for folks.


Jay
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