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Old 01-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #1
Teutonic Speedracer
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Default Prepping for track duty - Oil Temp & Inj Duty Cycle

Ok, I'll start off that I've been searching these topics and PMing people before I even owned the car (2013 WRX base). I also understand that everybody's ambient conditions are different. I'm also only planning to do 2-3 track events per year.

Based on a Torqued Performance Stage 2 (Cobb DP), will running a Koyo radiator in combination with a KillerBee oil pan (1.3qt increased oil capacity) be enough to keep oil temps in check on the track and avoid an oil cooler?

2nd thing, I'm close to 99% inj duty cycle at higher rpm during one of my data logs in 3rd gear (35F day, almost at sea level in NJ). Should I be running larger injectors/fuel pump or could I just lower the boost (peaking at 19psi) a bit and with the warmer temps (Spring to Fall track season), the two will lower the inj duty cycle to a more acceptable range?

It's tough, I see people going both ways on both topics, but thought I would post this in the motorsports section and here your opinions. I had an oil cooler and larger injectors on my previous 500hp LS1 based track car.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #2
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Do you have an oil temp gauge?

The increased oil capacity should make a BIG difference.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #3
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I ran my 09' WRX at ~20 events a year for 2.5 years with the stock radiator, oil pan, etc..

I would suggest a very conservative tune for the track unless you are running race gas.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:12 PM   #4
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Yeah, you are pretty stock...I think an increased oil pan and a gauge to keep track of the #'s and you are G2G.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyol View Post
Do you have an oil temp gauge?

The increased oil capacity should make a BIG difference.
I plan to get an oil temp gauge which would work nicely with KillerBee pan. I wish I could gauge what somebody with stock pan, radiator, and no cooler would hit at stage 2 (at whatever they're ambient is). 230F, 250F, 270F? Have to imagine that upgraded pan and radiator are worth between 15-30F? What is an acceptable range?

With LS1 people would say it could hit 300+ and could do damage at 280F. My combo kept me in the 220-240 range.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:07 PM   #6
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I have an N/A Race car - Heavily modified to make some good power (for a 2.5L N/A lol)

I have 12x8 oil cooler and my oil temperatures run around 240-250 in most conditions. I run a 10w-30 oil on cool weather days and may bump it up to a 10-40 if its hot as crap.

Turbo motors run ridiculously hot, keep an eye on it. 280 is hot as hell...
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:13 PM   #7
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stock pan with no cooler... it'll get hot enough to start losing oil pressure. if you start losing oil pressure, it's definitely time to do something.

running a richer tune will cool things a bit better, and you can run straight water with water wetter to make your radiator cool things better too. so yes, if you lowered the boost a tad that will give you a safety buffer.

a killer bee pickup, oil cooler, good brake fluid and good brake pads are the 4 bare minimums for track work (assuming your car is totally stock) IMO. also assuming you're running quality oils/fluids everywhere else at their maximum levels.

heat wrapping the headers and dump will do wonders for underbonnet temps.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:42 PM   #8
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I had my tuner make me a road course map @ 18psi for my 1.5 XTR with a built motor and ELHs. At CMP in SC last month, my oil temp (using the rear gallery plug) climbed up to 260* towards the end of the day. I'm looking into oil cooling for this year.

For comparison's sake, 1.5 XTR, ETS TMIC, Tomei ELH/uppipe, Cobb TBE, ID 1000cc injectors, built motor, stock heads.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:46 PM   #9
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for 2-3 track days I'd,
a. turn down the boost (dunno about the new STI, but isn't ist weird that your running out of injector, on stock turbo)
b. change oil before and after track event
c. buy oil temp and oil pressure gauges and pull off if things get too hot
d. install good brake pads and let her eat
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic Speedracer View Post
I plan to get an oil temp gauge which would work nicely with KillerBee pan. I wish I could gauge what somebody with stock pan, radiator, and no cooler would hit at stage 2 (at whatever they're ambient is). 230F, 250F, 270F? Have to imagine that upgraded pan and radiator are worth between 15-30F? What is an acceptable range?

With LS1 people would say it could hit 300+ and could do damage at 280F. My combo kept me in the 220-240 range.
Stock radaiator, stock pan, 365whp E85 tune at summer Autox: 215 idle max. After an Autox run I hit 235-245.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyol View Post
Stock radaiator, stock pan, 365whp E85 tune at summer Autox: 215 idle max. After an Autox run I hit 235-245.
autox: 2 minute sessions
track day: 30-40 minute sessions

pretty much the same thing
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
autox: 2 minute sessions
track day: 30-40 minute sessions

pretty much the same thing
Are you sure?
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:17 PM   #13
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I track my 2011 wrx stage 2+ with built motor, ewg, avo tmic and a conservative tune from eq tuning on a stock radiator and oil plan. Have egt and oil temp gauge and when running 25min sessions I'm hitting 240-250f.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byun View Post
I track my 2011 wrx stage 2+ with built motor, ewg, avo tmic and a conservative tune from eq tuning on a stock radiator and oil plan. Have egt and oil temp gauge and when running 25min sessions I'm hitting 240-250f.
Without a cooler? Sounds like you're in HPDE 1.

No offense of course, HPDE 1 is a great place to start!
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:06 AM   #15
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I've been tracking my '06 STI for 6 years with the stock oil pan and no oil cooler. Never had a problem. This is with ~300 WHP & stock turbo. I used to run 15W-50 Mobil 1, but now run 15W-50 Motul. I usually fill it about 1/2 quart more than the owner's manual says. I don't have AC, so no condenser in front of the Koyo radiator. I also just just water + water wetter.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:41 AM   #16
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Staying on the stock turbo does not require an oil cooler as temps won't get higher than 240 on track. The biggest part to add to any track driven Subaru is a good air oil separator.

Tony
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:42 AM   #17
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I would say from my experience getting the gauges is the first step. Then seeing what the car is actually doing. If you find your car is pushing 250 in oil temp on the regular look into an oil cooler if not then you are set. I would say that tracking my car in 100+ degree weather here in so cal I have more problems keeping my water temp out of the red more than my oil temp.
Although I do have an oil cooler as well as a koyo rad. My oil temp has never gone over 260 with the cooler on.
Other things I have had the fun of dealing with is brakes, I would recommend TI shims, a decent set of pads and nice fresh fluid. I have went to a brake duct system and now 2 pic rotors to help with cooling as well.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:43 AM   #18
mav1c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Staying on the stock turbo does not require an oil cooler as temps won't get higher than 240 on track. The biggest part to add to any track driven Subaru is a good air oil separator.

Tony
What would you recommend? I made the mistake of trying the Grimmspeed one...and that's jaded me a bit.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
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What would you recommend? I made the mistake of trying the Grimmspeed one...and that's jaded me a bit.
What problems did you have?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyol View Post
What problems did you have?
Under high lateral load in extended duration cornering, it sucked oil out of the filler tube. Basically doing the opposite of what it was supposed to. On a street car it may work OK. But on a track car that has lots of sustained lateral Gs, it does more harm than good.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:59 PM   #21
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I use the Crawford performance AOS and I have no problems with it.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
Under high lateral load in extended duration cornering, it sucked oil out of the filler tube. Basically doing the opposite of what it was supposed to. On a street car it may work OK. But on a track car that has lots of sustained lateral Gs, it does more harm than good.
I've noticed this, too, even under just AX conditions. I know of several STI owners that track their cars and sold their GrimmSpeed/clone AOS after noting this fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfubar101 View Post
I use the Crawford performance AOS and I have no problems with it.
Ditto.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
autox: 2 minute sessions
track day: 30-40 minute sessions

pretty much the same thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by polyol View Post
Are you sure?
pretty sure there is some sarcasm there
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:31 PM   #24
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
c. buy oil temp and oil pressure gauges and pull off if things get too hot
I would advise not pulling off if things get too hot, but rather keeping the revs up and maintaining a safe speed on track at light throttle. Keeping the air flowing and the fluids flowing will cool things down much quicker than letting the car bake while sitting still idling.

I have a Koyo rad and stock oil pan with a stage 2 protune. I have seen up to ~270 oil temps in the block in 90* ambient temps, so things can get too hot even with stock turbo. In 50-70 ambient temps I usually don't see above 255* oil temps.
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