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Old 01-13-2013, 05:12 PM   #1
loofer
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Default EJ20 Rebuild vs. Purchasing Stock EJ20 engine [Mine spun a bearing]

Whats up Everybody!

So last weekend I get this awesome knock and incredible loss of power at 2am. I end up pushing it to a local mechanics shop who I have never worked with, but somewhat trust (seeing as how they have worked on my buddy's Supra). They call me in the morning and tell me I spun a bearing, and from what I read on some threads that seems to be the consistent answer.

I snagged a truck and trailer and brought the Scooby down to my cousin, so we could tear it down and figure out exactly what happened. Then from there rebuild or get a new engine [this decision is where I need advice].

Here is my would-be Rebuild list of parts:

CP Pistons
Manely H-beam Rods
ACL racing bearings
ARP Headstuds
OEM Crankshaft (if needed)
Cosworth blueprint 11mm Oil pump
OEM Master gasket kit
Gates Timing Belt

Total: $1430 (at least form what I am seeing) and maybe $250 for machining.

I am having a hard time finding prices on a EJ20 to compare and see which way I should go!

Any Advice here would be great!
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:22 PM   #2
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We hooked up a scanner and found a Cylinder #3 misfire. We pulled the spark plug from that cylinder and it was brown as dirt! Did also notice a bad oil leak out of the spark plug hole.

So possibly a dropped valve??? Or could still be a spun bearing??? Not sure until it gets torn down, but interesting none the less.

Another side Note: The Previous owner must have had some of this apart before because We found LOTS of loose nuts & bolts.
NOT COOL!


Before Tear Down

But anyway there were like a bagillion connectors to unhook to get ready to pull the engine, which we have finally arrive

Engine will be pulled Tuesday night and we will know more!
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:26 PM   #3
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Do a hybrid.2.5.. I got a short block for you.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:29 PM   #4
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Then I need to get a COBB Accessport (More $$$) and pay for a nice tune setup, and there is no decent tune shop is West Michigan
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:35 PM   #5
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How much are we talking. I do understand I can use my heads from my 2.0L, but what about the intake, exhaust (stock uppipe & downpipe). What horsepower gains are we talking about?
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loofer View Post
How much are we talking. I do understand I can use my heads from my 2.0L, but what about the intake, exhaust (stock uppipe & downpipe). What horsepower gains are we talking about?
U can just bolt on your heads as is to the 2.5 L block on a hybrid. The same goes 4 your intake mani, xhaust mani, up and downpipe. Optimally, since the block/heads are apart, you want to do work to the heads (e.g. Open up the combustion chambers, adjust the valves etc..) this will be added insurance for the higher compression ratio. Read up on this if u havent.
In regards to power, it'll all depend on your turbo selection, supporting mods, and tune. You'll def notice alot more off boost power though due to the extra displacement..
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:09 PM   #7
woodys77
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Please don't take my word for it( I'm the salesperson lol) ask the guys with hybrids on it first. From what I hear its well worth it.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:24 PM   #8
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You should get a new oil cooler they tend to hold rod bearing fillings in them.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:07 PM   #9
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if your worried about money, just buy a short block form Subaru. that is the cheapeast route to go. you for got about honing your block too that will be a few hundred too. and I think your qoute is low too
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:23 PM   #10
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@subaru_gc8: How much are we talking for just a shortblock From Subaru? Maybe I suck at searching the internet, but I haven't been able to find to many places with EJ20s for sale. I'm not too worried about the money because either way it will be a couple thousand.

@Woodys77: How much are we talking? I couldn't PM you because your box is full.

@danger1138 I I just have an aftermarket exhaust from the downpipe on. I would still be using the stock turbo as I do not have the money to purchase a new turbo kit. Just using money for a build or block

Is there any place where you can get a "built" shortblock anywhere?? Just a thought
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:27 PM   #11
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Im not telling anyone what to do.
But I was in the same boat.
I decided to just go ahead and rebuilt the block. Although a little different, it still gives you an idea.
2.5 nitride crank: $150.00
ACL race bearings rod/crank: $200.00
Manley H beam rods: $250.00
CP 2.1 stroker pistons: $300.00
Machine work: $350.00

But then that opened up a whole new can of worms (as these things usually do)
And I built the heads: ~$700.00
New turbo (vf23): $200.00
New tmic: $400.00
New Fuel pump: $150.00
Other parts to rebuild motor: ~$700.00
Random other parts to support your "new" mods: ~$1,500.00

The point is, if you want the cheap and possibly more reliable fix, buy the factory shortblock, clean the heads, and buy a new oil cooler. Because projects like these have a way of getting out of hand fast!

On the other hand my car is way more fun to drive now. :P
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:20 AM   #12
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04wrx008 is exactly right. If cost is a big issue and you aren't looking for tons of power, I'd just buy a new 2.0 shortblock. These things then to spiral out into an expensive build rather quickly.

As far as buying a 2.0 block. Either find a nice used one or call around for a new one. I'd expect to pay around $1,700 for a new one. You might say, why not rebuild it at that cost? Well, I think your machining estimate was a bit low. To do this the right way I'd expect to spend $1000 in machining costs alone.

Either way, good luck. Not trying to discourage you just let you know what I found out.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:03 AM   #13
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I went with the hybrid route for me and having the machjne shop blue printing and balancing with a bore and bring the crank cost me 310.and i didn't use a torque plate so that might add a little cost if you go that route. And 450 to clean up my heads I didn't open up my cc either
With me doing the assembly with te tune and supporting mods it was about 3k
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:58 AM   #14
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A new 2.0 short block from subaru is around $1900 plus you'll need head work. The head work can be $400 or $700 depending on what the heads need, I'd suggest don't cut corners here, get it done wright. You can buy a Jdm 205 motor, complete for a lot less. Run it on your usdm ecu without avcs with tuning. I bet you it would be more cost effective.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #15
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I can see how things can spiral out of control haha! We all want to go fast with some style and that means some Moolah! I'm not looking for a ton of power since it will be my Daily. Also, seeing that I came from a 1.6L non VTEC little civc the Subaru seems like light speed

@ScoobyWtf: Did you go and get a tune after, and what do you mean by "cleaned up the heads"

I work for a Car Dealership here in MI. Went from Sales, to Service, and now I am in Accounting and of course I have a parts discount. Here is what I was quote:

Brand New EJ20 Block & Rotating Assembly $2,172.19
Brand New Heads $591.36 each
Gasket Kit $251.77

If I can do a rebuilt for less than the Block cost I am in because then I have a built 2.0L vs. another stock 2.0L. Just my thoughts at the moment.

Tomorrow will be the defining moment, but lets just say the heads are not damaged and good to roll. What should I do to them as far as clean up or maintenance???

Last thing for tonight, Thanks again to you all for the input. Always good to get some wisdom from others
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:31 PM   #16
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So one more post tonight... Fast & the Furious is on tv... not a good thing. I repeat NOT A GOOD THING! It makes you want to have the best build EVER!!!!
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:45 PM   #17
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I'm getting my tune in a couple weeks and I sent my heads to get rebuilt I had a bad leakdown. Costs about 600
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:08 AM   #18
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If I was you I would not bother getting CP pistons and all that good stuff if this is your daily, rather a 2.5 block, clean, deck and portmatch the heads, new gasket set, killer b oil pick up and a tune. Since the bore of the 2.5 heads is bigger than those of 2.0, by combining the 2.5 block and 2.0 heads, the compression gets higher as well as the engine being a little more prone to det. To match the compression of a 2.5 motor, the 2.0 heads are bored out a bit which is called port matching.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:11 AM   #19
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I mean I can do them, It's just a HUGE pain in the buns to do. I have 131k on the heads at the moment. Think those springs need to be replaced??? That seems about average cost.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:34 AM   #20
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BKscooby: So what are we talking for a 2.5L block low miles or new?

It will be a daily, but i like to get on it a good amount at times; highway pulls, car show cruises, ocassional drag. I don't want this to happen again (or at least have the probability of it happening again to diminish) that is why I would like to go with the good stuff. But if you say otherwise I trust you and am open to ideas. Can that 2.5 block take a beating?
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:39 PM   #21
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No tear down tonight, possibly tomorrw. Anyone have any advice on stoking it out to a 2.1L
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:24 AM   #22
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I would not upgrade an ej205, it is an open deck block. ej25 on the other hand is semi closed. The block is stonger, better all around. If you are planning to daily it and are under 350whp stock ej25 block will be fine. Stroking or not stroking the ej 205, it is an open deck. Less money and more advantage to just go with the ej25. What are you trying to put down to the wheels?

Also find out if this is a spun bearing, or valve or whatever this may be before listening to any more advices.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:26 AM   #23
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New block
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:19 PM   #24
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That is true. Just before i read your post i did decide to stop furiously looking at the forums and wait to tear it down.

I dont't need 300hp. But how much hp can you run with a stock turbo?
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loofer View Post
I work for a Car Dealership here in MI. Went from Sales, to Service, and now I am in Accounting and of course I have a parts discount. Here is what I was quote:

Brand New EJ20 Block & Rotating Assembly $2,172.19
Brand New Heads $591.36 each
Gasket Kit $251.77

If I can do a rebuilt for less than the Block cost I am in because then I have a built 2.0L vs. another stock 2.0L. Just my thoughts at the moment.
Brand new EJ25 block will be the same price for the assembled block.
In addition to the EJ20 you need:
- Opening the combustion chamber of the heads from ~92mm to ~98mm, both to match the bore and to lower the compression ratio some.
- any R&R on the heads that you'd do for the 2.0L (probably new valve springs, guides and seals, potentially a valve job or brand new castings.)
- You need 2 head gaskets for turbo 2.5L in addition to your 2 liter gasket set
- The EJ25 block has an extra crankcase breather. This goes to a "T" and directly to each head, the 2.5L turbo heads have two nipples on the heads instead of 1 on the EJ205. So you need to manually plumb all that together to mimic the turbo 2.5L breather setup.
- requires re-tuning for the new engine setup

That does add some cost vs. a plain 2.0L setup, but there is quite a bit more low end torque.

There are a total of 4 options for you:
1) OEM 2.0L as you priced out
2) OEM 2.5L as I explained here
3) re-build the 2.0L with the crank from the 2.5L and special stroker pistons for a 2.1L that has torque like ~2.3 ish liter due to the extra stroke. This is what 04WRX008 outlined that he did
4) source a JDM EJ207 engine package from one of the sellers in the vendor classifieds here. This is a full package that will upgrade turbo, fuel injectors, header, exhaust, intercooler, and such all together for about $4k. The engine is used with <60k on it. You need a fuel pump and a tune on top of that, and you have a nice bump in power. No need to open up any engine.

I have gone with #4. My engine was less than $4k shipped to my door, and I needed about $200 - 300 of misc stuff on top of that (new plugs, oil, PS fluid, coolant, replace some hardened hoses and such, etc...) plus I bought an engine stand and rented a hoist for a day for another ~$100. I'm self tuning, but tuning would be another $400 on top of that. I already had a fuel pump, that's <$100, so <$5k for a full upgrade of exhaust, turbo, fuel system, and heads.

So now you have respondants who have done all possible routes. There is no "right answer" everyone has different desires. OEM 2.0L block and a valve job is probably your most budget conscious route. The other options are for those wanting a little extra oomph out of it.
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