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Old 01-30-2013, 11:59 AM   #126
Buzzed Trucks
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Originally Posted by garudatwo View Post
Someone correct me if I'm using the wrong terms or if I'm just plain wrong:

Compression: when the wheel "compresses" up into the wheel arch. This happens when you're in the process of going over a bump. If you have a softer spring rate, i.e. the blacks, this part of going over a bump will be less harsh since the wheel can move more freely. If you have a harder spring rate, i.e. the yellows, this part will be more harsh, since there's more resistance.

Rebound: when the wheel travels downwards relative to the chassis. This happens when the wheels are already over the crest of the bump. With the blacks (which are softer than the shocks themselves), it will take longer for the wheels to move downwards to make contact with the ground, which gives it a slight feeling of "crashing" after the crest. With the yellows, it'll take less time for the the wheel to make contact with the ground, giving me the feeling that it's "smoother" than the blacks at this part of the bump.

What I'm describing is at lower (15-35 MPH ish) speeds, at high way speeds I'm not experienced enough to tell a difference.

One setup is overdamped (blacks with bilsteins) while your current setup is perfectly matched.

Say you have 3 springs, 1, 2, 3, (softest to stiffest) with 2 matching the given set of shocks.

spring 1 will feel harsh (overdamped)
spring 2 will feel just as stiff, but not as harsh (matched springs/valving)
spring 3 will feel just as stiff, but bouncy after bumps. (underdamped)

If TIC tells you that the blacks are good enough for backroad hoonage, then I'd just get the blacks and have your bilsteins revalved to match those spring rate.
Would revalving for the blacks be completely necessary? Sorry, I'm still learning when it comes to suspension
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:03 PM   #127
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Would revalving for the blacks be completely necessary? Sorry, I'm still learning when it comes to suspension
That's completely up to you in my opinion. If you're okay with the rebounds feeling a little bit harsher than your current setup, and the compression being a little bit softer, then you don't need to revalve at all! I've called RCE about getting my bils revalved for a set of WRX blacks, but was told that I don't need it. Still a bit skeptical about that since it IS ~25% overdamped (20% for the front, 30% for the rear).

Here's a thread by someone who has been down the revalve route, who eventually settled for the stock springs with re-revalved bilsteins:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2297206

Edit: some more uneducated opinion:
Unless you're specifically going for an underdamped/overdamped setup, I believe for $1300 everything has better be closely matched.

Last edited by garudatwo; 01-30-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:22 PM   #128
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Question: I would like to lower the car a little more (I have the Yellows, rear set on highest ride setting to make even with the front). Now it's either wait till RCE gets restocked on front camber plates (lowering) and drop both front a rear about 10mm each, or try out the Black Springs. I am very, very happy with how the Yellows perform. They do make the ride stiff but it's not really too stiff for me. I wouldn't mind if the ride isn't as stiff, but I don't want to lose the performance of the stiff springs. So my question is, how much stiffer are the yellows than the black? I know what the spring rates are, but don't know how they will ride. Also, how much "worse" (probably the wrong word to use) are the black than the yellows when it comes to performance? Thanks guys!

RCE Yellow for wrx 320lbs front 320/lbs rear

RCE Blacks for wrx 275/250, blacks will drop you lower by about 10mm more than the yellows

2011+ STI OEM springs 256/289 for comparison

Your spring rates would be slightly softer than STI but reversed from front to rear.

Hope that can help you.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:51 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by GregOrz View Post

RCE Yellow for wrx 320lbs front 320/lbs rear
Just FYI, those are the STI black rates, not WRX.

WRX blacks - 275/250lbs
WRX yellows - 330/330lbs
STi blacks - 320/320lbs
STi yellows - 330/335lbs

amended from info on RCE's site

Last edited by gsrcrxsi; 01-30-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:57 PM   #130
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Just FYI, those are the STI black rates, not WRX.

WRX yellows - 335lbs
STI blacks - 320lbs

Sorry my mistake the RCE yellows are 330/330 for the WRX, thank you

http://www.racecompengineering.com/i...t-kit-243.html

You seem to be off by 5 too lol
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:01 PM   #131
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ammended, i knew 335 was part of it somewhere. with numbers this close, its no wonder people get so confused.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:26 PM   #132
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I gave Racecomp a call and Myles said that I wouldn't need to get the shocks revalved fro Blacks. So now I'd like to try to Blacks, but Racecomp doesn't have any in stock. I would prefer to buy a set, but can't find any used ones. Is there anyone here that would be interested in trading for my yellows? I've had them on the car for about a week.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:29 PM   #133
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You'll have better luck with a WTB ad in the classifieds.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:40 PM   #134
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Yes I know, I have posted here. I know there's at least one guy following this thread that mentioned something about switching from blacks to yellows because he didn't like the 25mm drop from the blacks.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #135
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I gave Racecomp a call and Myles said that I wouldn't need to get the shocks revalved fro Blacks. So now I'd like to try to Blacks, but Racecomp doesn't have any in stock. I would prefer to buy a set, but can't find any used ones. Is there anyone here that would be interested in trading for my yellows? I've had them on the car for about a week.
Let me give you my 2 cents for what its worth. You are running yellows with Bilsteins, so that is pretty much the MOST you will get performance wise out of a conventional shock/spring combo. If you are worried about sacrificing performance, any deviation from that match guarantee that result.

If you want to go to blacks for only the 10 mm drop, I'd say you are trading away more than you would be getting. Visually, I am not even sure if 10mm lower would satisfy you, if a lower profile is what you are looking for. You might not even notice it. If you need a softer ride too, then I'd say its worth it. But you seem to be very happy with the way the yellows perform, why mess with a good thing? For what? 10mm?? Meh... its your call.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:07 PM   #136
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Let me give you my 2 cents for what its worth. You are running yellows with Bilsteins, so that is pretty much the MOST you will get performance wise out of a conventional shock/spring combo. If you are worried about sacrificing performance, any deviation from that match guarantee that result.

If you want to go to blacks for only the 10 mm drop, I'd say you are trading away more than you would be getting. Visually, I am not even sure if 10mm lower would satisfy you, if a lower profile is what you are looking for. You might not even notice it. If you need a softer ride too, then I'd say its worth it. But you seem to be very happy with the way the yellows perform, why mess with a good thing? For what? 10mm?? Meh... its your call.
Well first off, let me explain what I want in my suspension setup:

1. Performance
2. Ride Height
3. Ride Feel

All 3 of those are equal when it comes to what I prefer. Right now, I am very, very satisfied with the performance, but not completely satisfied with ride height. I also don't mind the stiffness of the ride, but I would prefer to be a little softer. Therefore, 2 of my categories are not completely satisfied, while 1 is. If I switch to Blacks, I will most likely be completely satisfied with height and feel, and not completely satisfied with performance. But, if the performance of the blacks isn't much worse than the yellows, I would be satisfied with the whole setup, hence why I was asking how much better the yellows perform when it comes to handling.

Now that you understand what exactly I am looking for, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Keep in mind, I am looking to purchase a set of blacks to give them a try. If I'm more satisfied with the yellows, I will still have them to put back on. So I am still open to ideas.

Last edited by Buzzed Trucks; 01-30-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:12 PM   #137
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Like I said, call TIC and ask them what you'll be looking at performance wise.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:13 PM   #138
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if you arent satisfied with the setup, maybe you should consider some TiC SSTs (reworked AST 4100)? you will have better ride quality and performance from what ive read.

significant cost increase though. about $2500 for the TiC setup.

going to blacks will not be what you want, IMO. they will be softer and lower, seems like you want a little stiffer.

just my .02. ditch the GTWorx setup in favor of the TiC SST, or wait for the camber plats to drop you another 10mm.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #139
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I'd keep the yellows, not worth the extra work....

Blacks will be lower, but not stiffer.

You want stiffer? You want lower? Coil overs.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:21 PM   #140
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As promised, here are the measurements for bilstein/yellow combo:

Front: almost exactly 14", maybe like 14 and 1/16"
Rear (on center circlip): 13.5"

This is measuring from the center of the centercap to the bottom of the fender lip. This is after ~100 miles (installed this past weekend).
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:27 PM   #141
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As promised, here are the measurements for bilstein/yellow combo:

Front: almost exactly 14", maybe like 14 and 1/16"
Rear (on center circlip): 13.5"

This is measuring from the center of the centercap to the bottom of the fender lip. This is after ~100 miles (installed this past weekend).
Nice, thanks mrkyle, I think ill be putting my rears on the top circlip....
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:29 PM   #142
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Nice, thanks mrkyle, I think ill be putting my rears on the top circlip....
No problem. I'm considering putting mine on the top one as well, but I won't be doing that for awhile. I wonder if I have to take the strut off to adjust the circlip or if I could just compress the spring while it's on the car.

Keep in mind this is with half a tank of gas and everything the car came with in the trunk (spare, jack, etc.) and no extra stuff (except for a snow brush/scraper...)

I also wonder how much the front suspension sinks when I get into the car. Could be it evens out once I'm sitting it it
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
if you arent satisfied with the setup, maybe you should consider some TiC SSTs (reworked AST 4100)? you will have better ride quality and performance from what ive read.

significant cost increase though. about $2500 for the TiC setup.

going to blacks will not be what you want, IMO. they will be softer and lower, seems like you want a little stiffer.

just my .02. ditch the GTWorx setup in favor of the TiC SST, or wait for the camber plats to drop you another 10mm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregOrz View Post
I'd keep the yellows, not worth the extra work....

Blacks will be lower, but not stiffer.

You want stiffer? You want lower? Coil overs.
Sorry, meant to say I don't mind the stiffness, but I would rather it be a little SOFTER. Now that I have corrected myself, what would you guys recommend?
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:57 PM   #144
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No problem. I'm considering putting mine on the top one as well, but I won't be doing that for awhile. I wonder if I have to take the strut off to adjust the circlip or if I could just compress the spring while it's on the car.

Keep in mind this is with half a tank of gas and everything the car came with in the trunk (spare, jack, etc.) and no extra stuff (except for a snow brush/scraper...)

I also wonder how much the front suspension sinks when I get into the car. Could be it evens out once I'm sitting it it
I was also wondering if the circlip is able to be adjusted if the struts were still on the car. I'm sure it's doable, but probably just easier to take the strut off. Anyone have experience with this?
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:15 PM   #145
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I was also wondering if the circlip is able to be adjusted if the struts were still on the car. I'm sure it's doable, but probably just easier to take the strut off. Anyone have experience with this?
Remember only the rear cir clips are adjustable on the Bilsteins. You can drop it, but your Subaru will suffer from "saggy butt syndrome". I actually bought 2 rear spacers to avoid that problem when I was going to only put black springs with OEM struts.

BTW if any one needs rear spacers I will give them to you for free, you just pay shipping lol.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:22 PM   #146
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I was also wondering if the circlip is able to be adjusted if the struts were still on the car. I'm sure it's doable, but probably just easier to take the strut off. Anyone have experience with this?
no way to adjust on the car. you need to remove the top hats as well. the circlip is recessed under the lower perch. it sucks but thats the only way man.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:06 AM   #147
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i suppose its possible if you could get a spring compressor in there. probably easier to just take it apart though.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:23 PM   #148
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Got my alignment done today!

Pre-alignment:
- FR: -2.8
- FL: -1.8
- RR: -1.8
- RL: -1.8

After alignment:
- FR: -1.5
- FL: -1.5
- RR: -1.8
- RL: -1.8
- 0.02 toe in rear
- 0.2 toe in front

Last edited by mrkyle3; 01-31-2013 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:35 PM   #149
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Got my Alignment today as well, on Yellows

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:00 PM   #150
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Installed yellows and Bilstiens today. Initial impressions are good. I'd say the car is better over bumps and jagged roads. Sharper, planted, more composed. Height is identical to my OEM shocks/springs right now... Ill give it a few days to settle. I think my OEM stuff was begging to sag though. Any fears I had about intolerable harshness are gone and put to rest. Keep in mind my car has already been harsher to begin with, with the bushings, sway bars and endlinks, pitch stop, tranny mount. I could be desensitized and not even know it.....
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