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Old 01-14-2015, 03:38 PM   #1
maciek
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Default At what point do you need more oil flow?

I am opening up my bearing clearances.

Mains to 0.0018"-0.002"

Rods to 0.0021"-0.0023"

Is a 10mm oil pump still good to use, or do I jump up to a 11mm?

I know for stock setups on non-AVCS or single AVCS, the 10mm is the choice.

I do not want aerated oil running through the bearings, but I also want sufficient flow through the increased clearances.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:09 PM   #2
fastblueufo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciek View Post
I am opening up my bearing clearances.

Mains to 0.0018"-0.002"

Rods to 0.0021"-0.0023"

Is a 10mm oil pump still good to use, or do I jump up to a 11mm?

I know for stock setups on non-AVCS or single AVCS, the 10mm is the choice.

I do not want aerated oil running through the bearings, but I also want sufficient flow through the increased clearances.
Go with a bigger pump
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:00 AM   #3
rowleym
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Will you be using avcs? When does the pump need upgrading for a more "wild" non avcs build.

And what crank are you using?
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:52 AM   #4
maciek
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I'm using all stock ej257 components.

No AVCS, it's a 2.0L/2.5L hybrid.
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:19 PM   #5
mopar3.0
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u want Subaru mains tight to get more oil to rod bearings according to tech works engineering
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:35 AM   #6
maciek
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I went with stock spec main clearances and extra 0.001" rod clearances (0.0021"-0.0023").

Right now I'm leaning toward the 11mm oil pump option.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:25 AM   #7
Delphi
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Mains in my experience are tricky to measure and take patience. Temperature needs to be consistent. I would remeasure them after everything has been in the same room for a few hours to equalize. What bearings are you using?
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:31 AM   #8
maciek
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ACL race STD for mains

King XPG STDX (+0.001") for rods.

All measurements have been taken at room temperature.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:53 AM   #9
2006whitesti
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I know this doesn't answer your original question, but are you taking your measurements with torque plates on the engine? There are a lot of little "tricks" to increase oil flow on these engines. I personally will not just throw an out of the box pump of any size on an engine. The casting is sub-par at best. It takes a little time, but the end result of massaging the block/head oil passages and pump housing is well worth the return imho.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:00 PM   #10
rowleym
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any links or info on this massaging? Or is it just debur and smoothing and such?
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:08 PM   #11
ghulands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
I know this doesn't answer your original question, but are you taking your measurements with torque plates on the engine? There are a lot of little "tricks" to increase oil flow on these engines. I personally will not just throw an out of the box pump of any size on an engine. The casting is sub-par at best. It takes a little time, but the end result of massaging the block/head oil passages and pump housing is well worth the return imho.
Any chance you have a write-up on what you did?
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:16 PM   #12
2006whitesti
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I do not currently have a write up, but I am putting a block together currently. I will gladly snap some pictures of what I do and post them.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:21 PM   #13
ghulands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
I do not currently have a write up, but I am putting a block together currently. I will gladly snap some pictures of what I do and post them.
That'd be great to see.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:25 PM   #14
maciek
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No torque plates used for measurements. Brand new crank and new bearings.
The case is used. This is a quick budget build, to suffice as a backup motor while I redesign my built block.

I have only had rod bearing problems in the past on this build, so I am trying to design it a little better this time around. Basically I just want to be sure that I have sufficient flow requirements for the increased clearance at the rods.

I am unsure how much extra head room is available from the 10mm pump.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:06 PM   #15
2006whitesti
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A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
Was that with a torque plate on both sides of the block or just one side?
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:39 PM   #17
maciek
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Quote:
Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
Thank you, will do.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:45 PM   #18
2006whitesti
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Both sides. I know that is going to be tough to do, because most people or machine shops for that matter don't just have ej torque plates laying around, but in my opinion it is necessary on these engines.

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Old 01-20-2015, 03:47 PM   #19
tomtom84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
so did you line bore or swap bearing shells? or?
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:49 PM   #20
2006whitesti
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My block (s) are machined with plates on both ends and clearance set through line boring. I have had some blocks brought to me that I have had to mix bearing shells to get things right though. My current block is set up that way due to acl having poor qc.

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Old 01-20-2015, 03:57 PM   #21
Delphi
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Used case would explain your clearances on your mains. Mains 2 and 4 are known to open up 0.001".
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:01 PM   #22
2006whitesti
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If you are speaking of my block, being used has nothing to do with it. Case halves were squares, line bored back to middle of factory spec. Within .0001 of each other. The change occurs when the plates are removed/installed. I can take a new case and measure the bores without plates, then add plates and arp studs. Mains will change .001-.003. I have confirmed this many times with new and used cases.

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Old 01-20-2015, 04:17 PM   #23
Delphi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
If you are speaking of my block, being used has nothing to do with it. Case halves were squares, line bored back to middle of factory spec. Within .0001 of each other. The change occurs when the plates are removed/installed. I can take a new case and measure the bores without plates, then add plates and arp studs. Mains will change .001-.003. I have confirmed this many times with new and used cases.

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I was talking about OP's case being used.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:18 PM   #24
maciek
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When you say the mains change, are they opening an extra 0.001-0.003" as the torque plates are installed?
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:45 PM   #25
joegamma1
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Are the case halves torqued
together while adding the plates? Or does it matter?
I would think it does.
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