Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 14, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-18-2013, 05:31 PM   #76
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi Dom_3.5 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I rarely run anything over 23-24* anymore on any setup, unless its asked to be pushed.

And I never said that this tune was conservative. I said that I dont consider anything making 500whp on a subaru conservative no matter how you slice it. We're just asking a ****load out of these things. But I said you if you compare the timing and AFR values to others that get thrown around that you could say its on the more conservative side of things. When it was at 480-500 he was saying it was "blah" so i turned it up...and it was already at 27-28psi, so the rest came from the timing.

Obviously the more power you make.....the less time the motor will last. Its pretty safe to say that if everything was perfect on the car (oiling, plugs, leaks) that it would last longer taking out 2psi and 2*. Alot of it comes down to keeping the oil fresh and being anal about watching the wideband for leaks.

I didnt want to run 28psi....i was going to stop at 26, but he had his mind set on 28.

As juan pointed out these cars can last lots of miles at the power levels and utlizing the timing, but you have to be anal about your car.
Yup. Well said.

Good tuners like you actually have a conversation with their customers and tune based around their goals and desires rather than just always turning things up to 11.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 05:33 PM   #77
slowgenius
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48350
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
04 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I rarely run anything over 23-24* anymore on any setup, unless its asked to be pushed.

And I never said that this tune was conservative. I said that I dont consider anything making 500whp on a subaru conservative no matter how you slice it. We're just asking a ****load out of these things. But I said you if you compare the timing and AFR values to others that get thrown around that you could say its on the more conservative side of things. When it was at 480-500 he was saying it was "blah" so i turned it up...and it was already at 27-28psi, so the rest came from the timing.

Obviously the more power you make.....the less time the motor will last. Its pretty safe to say that if everything was perfect on the car (oiling, plugs, leaks) that it would last longer taking out 2psi and 2*. Alot of it comes down to keeping the oil fresh and being anal about watching the wideband for leaks.

I didnt want to run 28psi....i was going to stop at 26, but he had his mind set on 28.

As juan pointed out these cars can last lots of miles at the power levels and utlizing the timing, but you have to be anal about your car.
Outstanding job! A quick question, would running the step up to the gtx3576 in your opinion deliver similar results with less boost but kill the spool up?
slowgenius is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 05:50 PM   #78
Equilibrium Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:
2006 STI
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakarot09 View Post
Why does everything spool slower on the dyno than the road? Can you not adjust the loading on the dyno? I don't get the benefit of playing with dynos so I don't know all the ins and outs but I thought that was an advantage of a dyno is to be able to hold set speeds and measure power changes and also to vary the loading.
Even load bearing dynos just don't load the engine the same way as the road. You can get close, but its never going to be the same. That said, the gear used on the road also makes a huge difference in spool. Ron, is this 3rd or 4th gear?

-- Ed
Equilibrium Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 06:10 PM   #79
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi Dom_3.5 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
Even load bearing dynos just don't load the engine the same way as the road. You can get close, but its never going to be the same. That said, the gear used on the road also makes a huge difference in spool. Ron, is this 3rd or 4th gear?

-- Ed
The VD plot says its 4th gear.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 08:41 PM   #80
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagz87subi View Post
Given these specs, just curious what the mpg is for a modded Sti like this??
About 12-13mpg depending on how I drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourseasonsandles View Post
Awesome!

I run the same block on a stock location ATP3076r. I want to do e85, but I recall the RS Street block limitation was given at 600hp at the crank. Curious on your thoughts on that? Or do you not care?
I'm not sure whether Rallispec said 600bhp or whp. Just because I can put down 550 to the wheels with the current tune, doesn't mean I'll be running it in S# the whole time. While it's not something I've talked with Ron about, I'm hoping that S mode would be less boost, less stress. I just wanted to push it so I'd have it when I wanted to turn it on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
I am very impressed with your build and numbers. You've got my reconsidering the turbo selection for my '11 STi now. I'm really impressed with the spool and flat powerband.
I'm not sure I can say this is the best street turbo. While my primary purpose is a daily driver, and I like to go fast, if you only ever want to run with 400-460whp, then a 2.5xtr would be cheaper and get you the same results, but possibly even better transient response.

While I'm hitting 20psi at about the same exact RPM, it just doesn't feel as snappy as my Dom1.5 did. Maybe thats because this whole build took about 2 months, and my time between driving both setups was extended and I simply forgot the feel. But, it's noticeable that this thing feels less responsive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post
Outstanding job! A quick question, would running the step up to the gtx3576 in your opinion deliver similar results with less boost but kill the spool up?
Based on Perrin's megapost about these turbos, the gtx35r spools about 500rpm slower, and makes similar power at up to 2bar. Past that it starts pulling away more, but maybe my reading comprehension of their data was off

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
The VD plot says its 4th gear.
Yes, 4th gear.
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 08:56 PM   #81
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

He was talking about the gtx3576, I don't believe it had been released when Perrin was doing their testing. Pretty sure they were using a gtx3582.

They released the 3576 because they said the x3076 didn't have the same 10-15% gains as the other x series.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 09:02 PM   #82
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

I guess I'm not familiar with this new turbo. Didn't Perrin say the gtx3076 flowed like a gt35r though? I'm definitely not a turbo buff by any stretch...
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 09:14 PM   #83
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

That was the idea behind the whole x series....each one basically making the power of the next variant yet keeping the spool of the old gt.

IE x3071 spooling like a 3071 but making the power of a 3076.
X3076 spooling like a 3076 but making the power of the 3582.

The x3076 didn't quite make the mark so they added the x3576 to fill the gap.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 10:55 PM   #84
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

Just in case anyone was curious (not really related to my current build), but to compare the VD plot against an AWD Mustang Dyno...these were from my Dom1.5 build

I know this isn't definitive in any way, but, its the closest comparison I have. They were taken on the same night though, so conditions should have been similar. Both were 4th gear pulls.

pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 11:09 PM   #85
Slimsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155696
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 BLK STI Dom3XTR
415/405 Precision Tuning

Default

The dyno jet setting on vd was exactly 2whp and 10ft/lbs off from my actual dyno sheet at precision tuning. It's real accurate
Slimsti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 11:33 PM   #86
kakarot09
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 182375
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Northern Nevada
Vehicle:
08 Sti
Wrbm

Default

I can't see a reason to run the gtx3576. Spools like a 35r and makes 35rish power but costs more than a regular 35r because it has a billet wheel.
kakarot09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 11:52 PM   #87
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
Just in case anyone was curious (not really related to my current build), but to compare the VD plot against an AWD Mustang Dyno...these were from my Dom1.5 build

I know this isn't definitive in any way, but, its the closest comparison I have. They were taken on the same night though, so conditions should have been similar. Both were 4th gear pulls.

What Mustang dyno? Cobbs?
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 11:53 PM   #88
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

The only local AWD dyno to me. Local tuner guy. I believe its a Mustang 500.
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 11:29 AM   #89
KurtP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44836
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
1999 Fozzy
silver

Default

what would you expect this do on 93+meth Ed/Ron?
KurtP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 07:26 PM   #90
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerformanceAutoSolutions View Post
really,i have used id 2000cc inj 35r turbo e85 27 psi ,550whp,idc 90 percent,50 degrees,11.8 afr-28 psi...

dave

Because power on your dyno Dave and power on that road dyno are not the same. If you take out that correction its down to about 430 to 450 range on your dyno.
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 07:48 PM   #91
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Because power on your dyno Dave and power on that road dyno are not the same. If you take out that correction its down to about 430 to 450 range on your dyno.


The VD dyno on the dynojet setting reads like a real dynojet. It has been verified against real dynojets over and over on many different platforms to read within <5%.

553whp dynojet would be around 480-490whp on a low reading mustang dyno like David Buschurs'

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Buschur View Post

Most of you know our dyno reads about 13% lower than a Dynojet. .
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 08:00 PM   #92
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

it was 500 on airboy.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 08:16 PM   #93
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

He had the added weight on the VD plot. Dave was asking why and I answered him. Take added weight out, put it on mustang settting. Will read what dave is used to seeing.

C
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #94
wrxsubiemod
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165104
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: name where you like it
Vehicle:
E85 SoCalPorting
Phatron tuned

Default

Great tune. Nice results!

Op: I'm jealous

Ron: your the best
wrxsubiemod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 09:42 PM   #95
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
He had the added weight on the VD plot. Dave was asking why and I answered him. Take added weight out, put it on mustang settting. Will read what dave is used to seeing.

C

I am confused again. The 2008 STi car weight on VD is 3384lbs so he added 200lbs for the driver..... Even if he weighs nothing the whp will go down to 530whp
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 09:44 PM   #96
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I am confused again. The 2008 STi car weight on VD is 3384lbs so he added 200lbs for the driver..... Even if he weight nothing the whp will go down to 530whp
A few weeks back I took some crap to the junkyard, and on the way out I went on the scale. 3596 with me in it.
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #97
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2012 Forester 2.5X
2002 WRX Sedan

Default

The tuners on this forum make me shake my head sometimes. They sure spend a lot of time discussing dyno numbers and it seems they almost never back it up with any data. EFI and COBB are the only ones I see publishing databases. If everyone did this it would be an easy way to put all this to rest. It would be very easy to look up every stock baseline plot for a shop and know what that dyno truly baselines at. Or look up all the plots for a given turbo and see what it does in different setups. Instead it's just "my dyno is a heart breaker", "STI baseline runs are under 200WHP", "this number should be 10% lower to match my number", etc.
xluben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 12:15 AM   #98
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

I've had similar thoughts. Recently a thread talked about how shops were switching their dyno's to show Dynojet numbers because it makes their customers happy. I understand the reasoning behind it, everyone wants happy customers, but eventually it's going to have to switch to ANOTHER exaggerated theoretical number.

It's all numbers. The only thing that can be truly consistent would be everyone running a Virtual Dyno (not dependent on a mechanical device to measure another mechanical device), on the same road, same temperatures, same conditions, etc...and that will never happen.

Post a drag pass and thats when you can start bragging. My "500" whp means nothing if I'm only running 12s.
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:58 AM   #99
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

And just for kicks, here is what the Dyno feature on the Accessport shows (weight-3590, gear-4)

552hp @ 5845rpm / 558tq @ 4361rpm
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:50 PM   #100
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
I've had similar thoughts. Recently a thread talked about how shops were switching their dyno's to show Dynojet numbers because it makes their customers happy. I understand the reasoning behind it, everyone wants happy customers, but eventually it's going to have to switch to ANOTHER exaggerated theoretical number.

It's all numbers. The only thing that can be truly consistent would be everyone running a Virtual Dyno (not dependent on a mechanical device to measure another mechanical device), on the same road, same temperatures, same conditions, etc...and that will never happen.

Post a drag pass and thats when you can start bragging. My "500" whp means nothing if I'm only running 12s.
^^^^ding ding ding dyno #'s are irrelevant,1/4 mile #'s tell the tale of hp.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.