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Old 01-17-2013, 09:42 AM   #1
MConte05
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Default BRZ header on EJ series engines?

Did some searching, and appears some people have tried fitting EJ series headers onto the BRZ (FB20 engine) without much luck due to oil pan interference.

But has anyone tried the stock BRZ header on an EJ series engine?

From what I gather the exhaust port spacing and bolt holes are the same on the FB20 and EJ series engines. Obviously not much in the NA header market, but now that the BRZ is out, there are some nice header options, but curious if anyone has tried.

BTW, this is for a built Open Light rally engine, so no turbos for me.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:00 AM   #2
Patrick Olsen
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Is the width of the engine the same? The exhaust ports on each head might be the same, but what about the distance between the exhaust ports from one head to the other?

I guess they must be the same, since you said folks have tried the EJ headers on FBs and it was the oil pan that was the issue.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:22 AM   #3
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I think it would be a very tight fit. Blk6s (rallisportracing) I think got a 2.5i uel header on a 2.0i block but said it was off by just mm or so. Not sure how much a difference there is in the fa and fb engines in terms of headers
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:43 PM   #4
MConte05
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Yea, it's a question that I just can't seem to tell if anyone has answered... Might have to email a shop that has a modded BRZ and see if they can compare their stock header (or an aftermarket header) to an EJ and see if they line up. If it did fit, I wouldn't mind picking one up to play with and see if I can make it work on my rally car as a cheap EL header of sorts, or if it would even make a difference. Granted none of the other stock subaru exhaust stuff would work from the header back, but nothing some fab work can't solve.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post
Yea, it's a question that I just can't seem to tell if anyone has answered... Might have to email a shop that has a modded BRZ and see if they can compare their stock header (or an aftermarket header) to an EJ and see if they line up. If it did fit, I wouldn't mind picking one up to play with and see if I can make it work on my rally car as a cheap EL header of sorts, or if it would even make a difference. Granted none of the other stock subaru exhaust stuff would work from the header back, but nothing some fab work can't solve.
The EJ series exhaust manifold bolts up, but doesn't fit due to coolant hoses. Flanges and width are the same according to a poster on FT86club.com.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:40 PM   #6
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why would you want to do this there are so many better aftermarket optinos out there if your aiming at increasing flow.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Is the width of the engine the same? The exhaust ports on each head might be the same, but what about the distance between the exhaust ports from one head to the other?

I guess they must be the same, since you said folks have tried the EJ headers on FBs and it was the oil pan that was the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post
Yea, it's a question that I just can't seem to tell if anyone has answered... Might have to email a shop that has a modded BRZ and see if they can compare their stock header (or an aftermarket header) to an EJ and see if they line up. If it did fit, I wouldn't mind picking one up to play with and see if I can make it work on my rally car as a cheap EL header of sorts, or if it would even make a difference. Granted none of the other stock subaru exhaust stuff would work from the header back, but nothing some fab work can't solve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post

The EJ series exhaust manifold bolts up, but doesn't fit due to coolant hoses. Flanges and width are the same according to a poster on FT86club.com.
In response to all quoted posts and confirmation of Orbital's reply the BRZ ports spacing and flange stud pattern are the same as EJ engines, so the headers/manifold will bolt up to the engine, all other interference ignored. This was confirmed by Crawford on the BRZ they modded.

However, in regards to MConte's quest for a good n/a header TWE is the best option for high performance headers and all things head related on n/a EJ stuff.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:17 PM   #8
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Yes, but that is still an $800-900 header, I am sure kids will be tossing their BRZ headers to the side once they get their hands on some chinese no-name ebay headers for their FRS's and BRZ's. If it's cheap, and gets 75-80% of the performance for a fraction of the cost, I see possible win.

*EDIT* For example, I just went on the FT86club website, and someone is selling a stock header for $50.

Last edited by MConte05; 01-18-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post
Yes, but that is still an $800-900 header, I am sure kids will be tossing their BRZ headers to the side once they get their hands on some chinese no-name ebay headers for their FRS's and BRZ's. If it's cheap, and gets 75-80% of the performance for a fraction of the cost, I see possible win.

*EDIT* For example, I just went on the FT86club website, and someone is selling a stock header for $50.
Hey. We're not all like that.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post
Yes, but that is still an $800-900 header, I am sure kids will be tossing their BRZ headers to the side once they get their hands on some chinese no-name ebay headers for their FRS's and BRZ's. If it's cheap, and gets 75-80% of the performance for a fraction of the cost, I see possible win.

*EDIT* For example, I just went on the FT86club website, and someone is selling a stock header for $50.
A stock header for a 2.0L engine designed to rev higher might not be a worthwhile modification on a 25% larger engine that would do best with as much full range tq as possible. The primaries are likely tuned for max scavenging north of 5k rpm which is where the ej heads fall on their face. This is all speculation, but it would be disappointing to buy some headers get tuned to take advantage of them and then completely ruin the broad tq curve that the ej engines were designed for.

That said, it would be an interesting experiment to install a stock brz manifold, tune it and see what you get.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:27 PM   #11
MConte05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
A stock header for a 2.0L engine designed to rev higher might not be a worthwhile modification on a 25% larger engine that would do best with as much full range tq as possible. The primaries are likely tuned for max scavenging north of 5k rpm which is where the ej heads fall on their face. This is all speculation, but it would be disappointing to buy some headers get tuned to take advantage of them and then completely ruin the broad tq curve that the ej engines were designed for.

That said, it would be an interesting experiment to install a stock brz manifold, tune it and see what you get.
Well, the rally car has cams that come on north of 4k RPM's, spicy racing ones. And I am always near redline for these races. Plus, I am running a 2.2L. It would indeed be an interesting experiment, hence very curious to see if anyone has already done this before I put down some money to find out myself. In an ideal world, I'd love to get an FB20 engine running on a standalone for my rally car. 200+ NA hp in a 2700lb old ass legacy.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post

Well, the rally car has cams that come on north of 4k RPM's, spicy racing ones. And I am always near redline for these races. Plus, I am running a 2.2L. It would indeed be an interesting experiment, hence very curious to see if anyone has already done this before I put down some money to find out myself. In an ideal world, I'd love to get an FB20 engine running on a standalone for my rally car. 200+ NA hp in a 2700lb old ass legacy.
Sounds fun. With a 2.2 the primary sizing is probably not as much of an issue and with those cams a header that is tuned for the high end of the rev range would be ideal to gain peak power. But it still may hurt miss range a bit. For $50 for the manifold, I would be doing and experiment soon!
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:54 PM   #13
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The design of the stock BRZ header is not that appealing but might be worth trying.....especially for $50.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:08 PM   #14
MConte05
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Well, what I am really interested in is that if the stock BRZ header will fit without too many problems.... then maybe the influx of NA headers coming onto the market for the BRZ/FRS will also fit, and those are proving to be very well designed compared to the standard NA fare that has been around for a while. Just wish I knew someone local to me that has one sitting around. Paying for the shipping for that big hunk of metal wouldn't be cheap.
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