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Old 01-19-2013, 06:49 PM   #1
AFBeefcake
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Default Any one else having issues with their ISC 6 pot brake kit.

I have two ISC 6 pot brake kits. One on my 2002 wrx that I got brand new and the other kit on my wife's 2005 legacy GT that we got used.

Right now on both cars the brakes are vibrating very badly now and I dont really know what to do.

On both cars the kits where great when we first installed them, but after some time they both developed bad vibrations when braking at over 35 MPH.
I have done a bunch of things to both cars to try and fix the vibrations. In most cases it will fix the vibrations for a short time.
My wife drives over 100 miles a day mostly highway and I drive about 50 miles mixed a day.

I have tried to list every thing I have done to each car and the result I got, but I may have missed somethings.

On my 2002 wrx
H&R springs, KYB AGX struts, STI aluminum control arms, H&R 22mm sway bars, H6 rear brakes, master cylinder brace, front lower under brace and 17X7.5 rota's.

Stock front brakes never gave me any issues.
Installed the ISC kit, a had to get wheel spacers for my stock winter wheels.
Calipers still rubbed a little and had some viberaions.
Switched to my summer wheels and removed the spacers about a month later. Still had some vibrations.
I thought I had a caliper that had some stuck pistons.
I got a replacement caliper with new pads. Vibrations when away.
Over time stared getting vibrations again.
I got a new set of rotors, vibrations where gone.
About two months later vibrations came back.
Had the rotors turned, vibration went away.
A month later it was vibrating again.
I had my wheels rebalanced, still had the vibration.
I greased the parts of the brake pads that touch the caliper, still had the viberaions.

On my wife's 2005 LGT
ISC coil overs, 17x7.5 Sport tuning wheels, cusco lower control arm brace, master cylinder brace, 22mm rear sway bar and stock rear brakes.

Stock brakes where horrible and vibrated badly.
I got a used set of OEM rotors and had them turned and installed.
Vibrations went away, but brakes still did not stop the car very well. After a month or two the vibrations came back.

Installed the ISC brake kit.
The brakes worked great. They felt great and stopped even better.
After a couple months we started getting small vibrations on braking.
Re bleed and re beded the brakes. Seamed better.
The rear wheel bearings started making noise. The dealer replaced both rear wheel bearings under the service bulletin for free, but said that one of the front bearing was stating to go also.
I replaced both front wheel bearings about 3 weeks later.
Vibrations got worse. I checked the car over and found that the front rear control arm bushings where ripped. I replaced both sets of control arm bushings on the car with white line bushings. Vibrations went away immediately.
About two months later viberaions came back and the pads were getting warn down on both the ics's and stock rears. I had the rotors turned and installed new pads front and rear, vibrations gone.
A month later viberaions are now back.


I have talked to a couple vendors of the ISC brake kits and they say no one is having these vibration issues.

I would like to hear from others that have the ISC brake kits, if they are having issues.

I am starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong or missing some key thing.

I am not blaming ISC for my issues. They have been more then accommodating with getting me replacement parts at no cost to me to try and fix these issues.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:34 PM   #2
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In all of this you never mention bedding the pads or seasoning of the rotors..

I feel its highly important and even moreso for higher performance brakes..

If you did follow some proceedure, what was it?

Cant say ive ever been graced with 6pots bt ive had a set of KVR crossdrilled rotors and EBC pads last over 6yrs and countless floggings in the mtns of VT and hills of western NY..

I ask about the bedding mostly because if the high liklyhood of depositing shmutz on the rotors with higher braking force they can apply faster, flash heating the pads..

Once proper bedding is achieved, you've burnt away the binders and sintered the friction materials..

Seasoning of rotors is just as important, applying the proper heat relieves internal stresses of the rotor.. reducing the chance of warping..

And finally, lugnut torque I feel plays a roll in all of this.. not so much exact torque but EVEN torque across the pattern, though proper torque is recommended..

Last edited by Aaron'z 2.5RS; 01-19-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:45 PM   #3
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Well the brakes come with no instructions or maintenance procedures.

I did bed the brakes in when I first installed them on both cars. And when I turned the rotors and replaced the pads on the lgt I bedded them in again.

10 stops 50-60 MPH down to 20-30 MPH.

I also have tried re bedding the pads a couple times it does not really seam to make a difference.

I should also add that I have the one piece rotors with both kits. There is the option of going to two piece floating rotors.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:45 PM   #4
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Any updates on this OP?
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:13 PM   #5
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Sorry, no update. I have been traveling 3 days a week for work.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:48 PM   #6
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I am having the same issue as you are, I have come to the conclusion that it is their rotors as mine are warped noticeable when braking at a low speed my car brakes harder at certain points of the rotors giving the car a forward to back shutter. Keep in mind I also have a high speed shutter of my steering wheel but it is so bad my whole car shutters. I have gotten in contact with IIR about a different brand rotor that fits the ISC BBK but have not received word back from them yet. When I last spoke to IIR they were waiting on ISC for the dimensions of their rotors. Now when I first experienced this problem I contacted ISC about 2 months after I purchased and installed the BBK and they basically told me they wouldn't warranty them no matter how long they were on the car and then told me the price of their rotors. We also spoke of me sending pics of the rotors and BBK to them but since I saw this as changing nothing based on the word I received from them I didn't bother. I will reply again once IIR contacts me about the DBA rotors that will fit if ISC gives up that info, but I will definitely give you word once I receive it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:15 PM   #7
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If dba makes something that fits that would be nice. Do you have the one or two peice rotors?

I am giveing up on this bbk. I am going to replace them with sti brembos.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #8
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I have the one piece rotors on my car I truly believe that the problem exists in their rotors but I won't know for sure until I am able to get a different brand on my car. Do you have steel braided lines in the rear of your cars I could see that causing a problem but I have steel braided and it still does it. Do you have the one piece rotors as well?
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:26 PM   #9
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One thing I also did that you haven't is install whitelines front roll center/bump steer kit and it fixes the problem but once again came back.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:28 PM   #10
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I have the one piece rotors on both cars. Wrx has ss line in the rear lgt doesn't.

I wonder if the two piece rotors are any different.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:32 PM   #11
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Well idk about the two piece but I'm not willing to try and see if they are given the price and just ending up with the same problem short more cash. If DBA makes rotors that fit I will give it a try and if the problem still exists then I'm switching them out as well.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #12
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I find it weird that other then the two of us no one else is reporting issues, but I bet a lot of the buyers aren't on here or something.

I was also told that the two piece rotors need a different caliper mounting bracket to fit.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #13
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Maybe we drive harder than others lol idk either. I do remember reading than or hearing about that somewhere. I would imagine if I did decide to go with the two piece rotors that ISC might send the brackets on an exchange but maybe not. It took me a while to find a thread with someone else who was having problems.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:51 PM   #14
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You would have to buy the brackets. I all ready asked them.

I dont drive hard at all that I know of. I only DD my car.
I had my rotors turned and tried to be as gentle on the brakes as I could and it only took a month for them to go to **** again.

I just looked. both the one pieace and the outer ring of two pieace rotors are made out of FC28. Whatever alloy that is. So, I bet they would suck just the same.

I will test if a sti brembo size rotor fits the caliper when I swap mine. I dont think it will. The sti ones are 326mm and the ics are 320mm.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:06 PM   #15
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I know for a fact that the STI rotors don't fit I already took my buddy's rotors and mocked them about a month ago and they are too big.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBeefcake View Post
I have two ISC 6 pot brake kits. One on my 2002 wrx that I got brand new and the other kit on my wife's 2005 legacy GT that we got used.

Right now on both cars the brakes are vibrating very badly now and I dont really know what to do.

On both cars the kits where great when we first installed them, but after some time they both developed bad vibrations when braking at over 35 MPH.
I have done a bunch of things to both cars to try and fix the vibrations. In most cases it will fix the vibrations for a short time.
My wife drives over 100 miles a day mostly highway and I drive about 50 miles mixed a day.

I have tried to list every thing I have done to each car and the result I got, but I may have missed somethings.

On my 2002 wrx
H&R springs, KYB AGX struts, STI aluminum control arms, H&R 22mm sway bars, H6 rear brakes, master cylinder brace, front lower under brace and 17X7.5 rota's.

Stock front brakes never gave me any issues.
Installed the ISC kit, a had to get wheel spacers for my stock winter wheels.
Calipers still rubbed a little and had some viberaions.
Switched to my summer wheels and removed the spacers about a month later. Still had some vibrations.
I thought I had a caliper that had some stuck pistons.
I got a replacement caliper with new pads. Vibrations when away.
Over time stared getting vibrations again.
I got a new set of rotors, vibrations where gone.
About two months later vibrations came back.
Had the rotors turned, vibration went away.
A month later it was vibrating again.
I had my wheels rebalanced, still had the vibration.
I greased the parts of the brake pads that touch the caliper, still had the viberaions.

On my wife's 2005 LGT
ISC coil overs, 17x7.5 Sport tuning wheels, cusco lower control arm brace, master cylinder brace, 22mm rear sway bar and stock rear brakes.

Stock brakes where horrible and vibrated badly.
I got a used set of OEM rotors and had them turned and installed.
Vibrations went away, but brakes still did not stop the car very well. After a month or two the vibrations came back.

Installed the ISC brake kit.
The brakes worked great. They felt great and stopped even better.
After a couple months we started getting small vibrations on braking.
Re bleed and re beded the brakes. Seamed better.
The rear wheel bearings started making noise. The dealer replaced both rear wheel bearings under the service bulletin for free, but said that one of the front bearing was stating to go also.
I replaced both front wheel bearings about 3 weeks later.
Vibrations got worse. I checked the car over and found that the front rear control arm bushings where ripped. I replaced both sets of control arm bushings on the car with white line bushings. Vibrations went away immediately.
About two months later viberaions came back and the pads were getting warn down on both the ics's and stock rears. I had the rotors turned and installed new pads front and rear, vibrations gone.
A month later viberaions are now back.


I have talked to a couple vendors of the ISC brake kits and they say no one is having these vibration issues.

I would like to hear from others that have the ISC brake kits, if they are having issues.

I am starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong or missing some key thing.

I am not blaming ISC for my issues. They have been more then accommodating with getting me replacement parts at no cost to me to try and fix these issues.
Most likely you'll get offended and blow me up...oh well so sorry... the intent is education for others. (and you if you are not too stubborn to listen)

1. It's spelled "VIBRATION" and with brakes 99% of the time it's a pad issue.

2. Replace the parts - drive the same way - it will re-occur.

3. You are excused from repeating the error - you are the customer.

Go look at the warranty from any reputable brake brand. THERE IS NONE! Aside from it not fitting - if it didn't work you chose the wrong thing for your application.


You can continue to throw parts/money at it - or you can diagnose the issue. That takes tools/money/time. 99% it's overheated or poorly bedded pads causing brake judder. The OP's description exactly describes what that feels like. Intermittent friction as the rotor goes around.

Good luck

Last edited by KNS Brakes; 04-11-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:50 AM   #17
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I'll not going to blow up at you. I already realize I am out the money for the two kits.

I am not a race team or a brake expert so I am kinda left guessing when its not working right. I was starting to think it was something about the pad taking off uneven amounts of rotor, but I didn't know what that was called or if there was anything I could do to stop it.

There are no other pad options that fit these brakes in the US.

Over seas they make 4 different pads options. Not sure that those are any better. I tried to get the US distributor to get me one of the other pad options to try. They told me they couldn't get any of them.

So I am in the process of getting two full sets of STi take off Brembos. Once I get them installed I will try to sell these for what ever I can get.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:21 AM   #18
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I see.

Are you sure there are no pad in the US? Can you trace or get a pic of one for me to look at?

Brake judder is likely what it is. It may not be visible to the naked eye - but sometimes is. Pad smear etc imprinting on the rotor surface. Basically the pad friction as the rotor moves by is uneven. That makes the pedal pulse and the st. wheel shake.

To Fix

First make sure everything works right. No stuck pistons, dragging pad or rotor runout.

Measure rotor runout on hub. That requires a runout gauge. If runout is over .003" you can usually index rotor to reduce that. (rotate rotor on the lugs to a different spot)

If all checks out.....

Then clean the rotors.

1. Rebed (but I'd skip this - sounds like the pads don't like heat that much)

2. Sand rotor w/ garnet paper.

3. Light turn...LIGHT - just a skim to get new metal.

If that fixes it - just drive normal.

Then when you do drive hard - make sure you cool the bakes or eventually it will re-occur. As I am sure you have read...a hot pad on a hot rotor at a stop is a good way to get judder. Too much ABS when hot is also possibly bad - the rotor is essentially stopping when ABS is active.

PS

We have several sets of Brembo's

-Ken
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNS Brakes View Post
I see.

Are you sure there are no pad in the US? Can you trace or get a pic of one for me to look at?

Brake judder is likely what it is. It may not be visible to the naked eye - but sometimes is. Pad smear etc imprinting on the rotor surface. Basically the pad friction as the rotor moves by is uneven. That makes the pedal pulse and the st. wheel shake.

To Fix

First make sure everything works right. No stuck pistons, dragging pad or rotor runout.

Measure rotor runout on hub. That requires a runout gauge. If runout is over .003" you can usually index rotor to reduce that. (rotate rotor on the lugs to a different spot)

If all checks out.....

Then clean the rotors.

1. Rebed (but I'd skip this - sounds like the pads don't like heat that much)

2. Sand rotor w/ garnet paper.

3. Light turn...LIGHT - just a skim to get new metal.

If that fixes it - just drive normal.

Then when you do drive hard - make sure you cool the bakes or eventually it will re-occur. As I am sure you have read...a hot pad on a hot rotor at a stop is a good way to get judder. Too much ABS when hot is also possibly bad - the rotor is essentially stopping when ABS is active.

PS

We have several sets of Brembo's

-Ken
When I say no pads in the US I meant ISC NA does not sell any pads other then the ones that come with the kit. There Taiwan division lists 4 pads. ISC NA told me they can't order the other pad types.

I do infant have a run out gauge and I did use it once and found that the rotors on my wrx had run-out. I had them turned and the shop also said they had run-out. I did not use it again after turning them.

On my wife's lgt I replaced the front wheel bearings. The bearings on the lgt are part of the wheel hubs so those are both new. So assuming timken made them right they should be true. I allso wire brushed the wheel hubs before reinstalling the rotors.

I will take a pic of the pads later today hopefully on some graft paper so you can see dimensions.

I have checked that all 6 pistons on both sides of both cars are free and move by hand. I haven't noticed any pad imprints on the rotors and I dont think the pads are dragging. I did notice that the pads can bind when the pistons extend, I put some high temp brake grease on the pad slide pins and that seamed to stop the binding.

As for the brembos I had pmed you about a set, but I actually found a set local with the rear adapters and a second set for a good price.

I will how every be buying 4 rotors and 2 sets of pads from you some time soon.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:11 PM   #20
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:53 PM   #21
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You can look up pad shapes and look for a match. But you can also have custom shapes made too from most performance makers like porterfield and PFC

Look at the pad shapes here.
http://www.hawkperformance.com%2Fdoc...og-current.pdf
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:00 PM   #22
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Having custom pads made is big money. ICS said it would cost over $10K.

I looked quickly at that pdf and nothing is the same.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:49 PM   #23
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Stop talking to ICS. They got you into this mess.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:59 PM   #24
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Take wheels off, retorque all wheel lugs with torque wrench, then bed the brakes. Uneven torqueing crystallizes brake pad material onto rotors. Once everything is evenly torqued again, you should have smooth ride. Try that for cheap troubleshooting
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:05 PM   #25
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Stop talking to ICS. They got you into this mess.
I haven't talked to them in a wail. I was just saying that they had said that custom pads were very expensive.
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