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Old 02-15-2014, 06:03 PM   #1
ToyotaMike
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OBP 399.9 WHP E85 PAS/CTC

Default E85 Users, check in, pro long use? your set up?

I am starting this thread with hopes that is doesnt turn into a "its gotta be your tune" type of thread. I am simply looking for information regarding your vehicles set up IF you have been running E85 for an extended period of time.I will explain the reasoning in a moment. If you would please chime in with the follow:

How long have you been on e85?

Target AFR/Boost?

How often do you change your oil?

What oil are you using?

Do you test your ethanol every fill up? or do you have a zeitronics ethanol reader in the car?

stock or built motor? sleeves or no sleeves?

have you done a compression or leak down test recently? or checked cylinders with a scope?

Do you have a wideband?

Reason behind all of this:

I have an 07 WRX, it was making 408/401 on a mustang dyno at 21 PSI with a MAPerfromance EF2 turbo, ETS TMIC, external gate, ID1000s etc. My motor was stock and obviously pushing its limits for sure at that power. Back in December I had the car out and noticed when I got on it the oil pressure dropped...I milked it home and checked the oil and was over 3qts low. Now, I am usually one to check my oil frequently, however in the near 30k that I have had the car it has never burned more then 1/4 in the 2k miles. I always changed the oil with rotella t6 5w-40 every 1500-2000 miles. I decided to do a leak down test and results revealed a 40-45% leak down in cylinder 1. I assumed for sure that a cast piston had lost a ring land at this power point.

I finally tore this motor out of the car this week, and tore it down. I was shocked to find that I did not have a broken piston, broken rings or any cylinder damage. The cylinders however have NO cross hatches left AT ALL. There is no scoring, the cylinders are just bare. There is no ridge at top of cylinders and the pistons came right out. None of the rings are frozen or damage. The motor has 69K on it. I have probably been on E85 for 15-20K and would switch during winter months.

I have been reading a little bit more over the past day or 2 now and I have been reading how flex fuel cars from the factory come with coated pistons and cylinder walls to combat the ethanol. Some also say, that the fact that there is 30% more fuel being spray in that it washes the cylinders down. I have also read about the fuel being contaminated with moisture could create formic acid upon start ups/warm ups.

Im just trying to get some thoughts or opinions on this as it just doesnt make sense to me. All 4 cylinders look the same, yet only number 1 was leaking down (rest were all 3-5% if I remember correctly). MY AFR was always rock solid, I always pay close attention to my gauges.

When I worked at Toyota as a tech, the MR2s and corollas would sometime come with 40-60K on them, they would be drinking oil, 4 quarts in less then a 1000 miles. When we would pull the head there would be no cross hatches left in cylinders. Toyota told us they were just bad blocks or some BS... no real reason and cars were all stock and properly maintained.

enough of killing an internet forest...

Here a few pics just for reference











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Last edited by ToyotaMike; 02-15-2014 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:15 PM   #2
Asharus
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subscribed. i also wanted to get more info on the stuff you mentioned before i get tuned for E85 this summer. i will be getting it at PAS too. i drive 500 miles a week and already have almost 70k on my engine. it doesnt burn oil now, and i would like to keep it that way. i plan on running E85 from memorial day to labor day, like most folks do here.

Last edited by Asharus; 02-15-2014 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:23 PM   #3
Andrewxxcarlson
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Subscribed. Will respond when I get done lettin loose...
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:17 PM   #4
ToyotaMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
subscribed. i also wanted to get more info on the stuff you mentioned before i get tuned for E85 this summer. i will be getting it at PAS too. i drive 500 miles a week and already have almost 70k on my engine. it doesnt burn oil now, and i would like to keep it that way. i plan on running E85 from memorial day to labor day, like most folks do here.
PAS is great, and Dave has tuned probably 100s of cars on E85, in no way shape or form do I think it's the tune. The tunes have always been rock solid with perfect AFR. I don't know what to think at this point...if it was that rich you would see scoring... There is NONE at all. I just don't want to put my forged goodies in and in 30k it's doing the same because of the possibility it's fuel related. If rather stay on pump and have a slow as car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewxxcarlson View Post
Subscribed. Will respond when I get done lettin loose...
I am hoping people will chime in, I know there a lot of people who DD on e85 such as I do...or did...
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:41 PM   #5
Asharus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaMike View Post
PAS is great, and Dave has tuned probably 100s of cars on E85, in no way shape or form do I think it's the tune. The tunes have always been rock solid with perfect AFR. I don't know what to think at this point...if it was that rich you would see scoring... There is NONE at all. I just don't want to put my forged goodies in and in 30k it's doing the same because of the possibility it's fuel related. If rather stay on pump and have a slow as car



I am hoping people will chime in, I know there a lot of people who DD on e85 such as I do...or did...
agreed. i dont think there's enough data on DD E85 cars out there yet, especially the type of driving i do at 2k miles a month.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:05 PM   #6
ToyotaMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
agreed. i dont think there's enough data on DD E85 cars out there yet, especially the type of driving i do at 2k miles a month.
there is a dude from LISC , Joe is his name if im not mistaken, he has I think an 08-09 wrx tuned on E and if im not mistaken has put like 70k on car! That is the only one I know with high mileage/DD use and I think he even has a winter blend tune as well
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:10 PM   #7
Asharus
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cool im on there too and did a quick search. didnt turn up anything.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:10 PM   #8
ToyotaMike
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I found his user name, Prefontaine84, although he doesn't have anything posted. I remember Adam at PAS mentioning his car and the amount of miles on E was quite a bit if I am remembering correctly.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:40 PM   #9
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Hi I have been on e85 for the last year and a half, with about two months on piss gas.

My afr's for E85 are 11.7 on id1000's
My afrs for 91 are 10.9
I currently have 21k miles on my built block
Cp pistons eagle rods acl bearings.
I'm also running a innovate lc-1 wideband

I usually run rotella t6 5-40 but switched to castrol gtx full synthetic(don't like it)

Car consumes no oil, or if it does it does show. I was running a OG Red and now am on a hta green.

Car is running very strong. No leak down or compression test has been done yet.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:14 AM   #10
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How long have you been on e85? - 2 years

Target AFR/Boost? 11.5 / 27PSI

How often do you change your oil? Every 4 -5000 miles

What oil are you using? 10w60 Castrol edge

Do you test your ethanol every fill up? or do you have a zeitronics ethanol reader in the car? No ,just use the same Gas station and pump each time.

stock or built motor? sleeves or no sleeves? OEM Built motor EJ207 Forged internals

have you done a compression or leak down test recently? or checked cylinders with a scope? Nope only ringland test and it passed.

Do you have a wideband? Yes AEM

Car is strong and ready for next Dyno session. Hope this helps

-1MOFO
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:03 AM   #11
ToyotaMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedbob View Post
Hi I have been on e85 for the last year and a half, with about two months on piss gas.

My afr's for E85 are 11.7 on id1000's
My afrs for 91 are 10.9
I currently have 21k miles on my built block
Cp pistons eagle rods acl bearings.
I'm also running a innovate lc-1 wideband

I usually run rotella t6 5-40 but switched to castrol gtx full synthetic(don't like it)

Car consumes no oil, or if it does it does show. I was running a OG Red and now am on a hta green.

Car is running very strong. No leak down or compression test has been done yet.
Thank you sir, are you testing the fuel ? Or just sticking to same gas station ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOFOSTI View Post
How long have you been on e85? - 2 years

Target AFR/Boost? 11.5 / 27PSI

How often do you change your oil? Every 4 -5000 miles

What oil are you using? 10w60 Castrol edge

Do you test your ethanol every fill up? or do you have a zeitronics ethanol reader in the car? No ,just use the same Gas station and pump each time.

stock or built motor? sleeves or no sleeves? OEM Built motor EJ207 Forged internals

have you done a compression or leak down test recently? or checked cylinders with a scope? Nope only ringland test and it passed.

Do you have a wideband? Yes AEM

Car is strong and ready for next Dyno session. Hope this helps

-1MOFO
By "ring land test" do you mean pulling oil cap off while its warmed up/running ?

Both you guys have been running fuel roughly same amount of time that I have been, I would be interested to see what the cylinders look like with a scope.

Weird thing with my car is too, it never through the CEL/MIL and it didn't feel down on power other then the fact that I had switch back to pump gas and was only at 16 psi for winter
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:47 PM   #12
BigRob74
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im tuned by dave @ pas as well. i only run e85 from june thru sept. i plan on getting the zeixtronics ethanol reader. im going back in june to get retuned once i put headers on in the spring. sub'd.. i run t6 also, every 3k
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:50 PM   #13
Asharus
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what gauges do you guys run. i currently run a wideband and boost, but i'd like to run an oil pressure gauge too. trouble is i cant figure out where to put it. i have an SMY gauge cluster and have the wideband on the right, boost on the left.

im thinking about getting the zeitronix e85 gauge too before getting tuned for e85.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:11 PM   #14
ALOKIN
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Been DD on upgraded turbo and E85 for 6 months now ( I drive 2K+ miles a month).

I have oil pressure gauge, wideband, and Zietronics ECA, (and factory boost).

I get ethanol from two stations usually. One is always closer to E90 so I try to do all of my fill ups there.

RT6 is my oil and change every ~4K miles, ZERO consumption.

Love E85.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:36 PM   #15
BigRob74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
what gauges do you guys run. i currently run a wideband and boost, but i'd like to run an oil pressure gauge too. trouble is i cant figure out where to put it. i have an SMY gauge cluster and have the wideband on the right, boost on the left.

im thinking about getting the zeitronix e85 gauge too before getting tuned for e85.
id do oil temp over oil pressure. you can get that vent pod, i cant think of who makes it though
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:05 PM   #16
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over two years on corn. no problems. just run a tank of dino through it every 8-10 months
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:28 PM   #17
ToyotaMike
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Originally Posted by BigRob74 View Post
im tuned by dave @ pas as well. i only run e85 from june thru sept. i plan on getting the zeixtronics ethanol reader. im going back in june to get retuned once i put headers on in the spring. sub'd.. i run t6 also, every 3k
I have the Zeitronics gauge in my car, I typically swap over to the corn at that time too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALOKIN View Post
Been DD on upgraded turbo and E85 for 6 months now ( I drive 2K+ miles a month).

I have oil pressure gauge, wideband, and Zietronics ECA, (and factory boost).

I get ethanol from two stations usually. One is always closer to E90 so I try to do all of my fill ups there.

RT6 is my oil and change every ~4K miles, ZERO consumption.

Love E85.
I love the E85 as well, just not if its the culprit behind my motor problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
over two years on corn. no problems. just run a tank of dino through it every 8-10 months
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
what gauges do you guys run. i currently run a wideband and boost, but i'd like to run an oil pressure gauge too. trouble is i cant figure out where to put it. i have an SMY gauge cluster and have the wideband on the right, boost on the left.

im thinking about getting the zeitronix e85 gauge too before getting tuned for e85.

I have the Zeitronix gauge because I got tired of screwing around with the test tube. I have the AEM wide band, Defi Oil and EGT gauge all in a Lotek pillar pod and I have Omori boost gauge on column.

I feel like the majority of people have been running the ethanol for the same time period that I have. I wish I could see into the future and see where you guys are at in say another year/12 or 15K miles.

I am just lost as to what would have caused this...I would have rather found something obvious.

I just dont want to rebuild, better, stronger etc and be in the same boat again in 2-3 years/30k
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:53 PM   #18
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its all in the tune.


and thats lack of lube.

Last edited by Cefaln452; 02-17-2014 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 02-16-2014, 06:57 PM   #19
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Hey Toyota, no I'm not testing fuel, just the same station, however one of my buddies do test the fuel at the same station and is consistent at e85.

Edit: If it helps I use the E85 at Kum n Go.

My gauges are Autometer(I know but I needed something) and innovate.

I didn't realize that I didn't post how often I change my oil, usually its every 3k miles unless I'm going back n forth to Colorado and New Mexico, then the interval is longer because I have no place to change the oil. No more then 5k miles though.

Last edited by Boostedbob; 02-16-2014 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedbob View Post
Hey Toyota, no I'm not testing fuel, just the same station, however one of my buddies do test the fuel at the same station and is consistent at e85. Edit: If it helps I use the E85 at Kum n Go. My gauges are Autometer(I know but I needed something) and innovate. I didn't realize that I didn't post how often I change my oil, usually its every 3k miles unless I'm going back n forth to Colorado and New Mexico, then the interval is longer because I have no place to change the oil. No more then 5k miles though.
Testing ethanol is important. The % changes so much due to the non regulations on it. Using the same station doesn't mean the % is consistent. But I did the same before I got my zeintronix
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:35 PM   #21
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With the leak down test on cyl 1, where was it leaking from? You expected to see broken rings, so the gas was leaking out the oil filler neck?
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:36 PM   #22
ToyotaMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
its all in the tune.
There has to be that one guy...

IF it was that rich it woulda washed cylinders down and created scoring....obviously you didn't read what I wrote so find another thread to troll or provide some of the info I requested otherwise GTFO


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedbob View Post
Hey Toyota, no I'm not testing fuel, just the same station, however one of my buddies do test the fuel at the same station and is consistent at e85.

Edit: If it helps I use the E85 at Kum n Go.

My gauges are Autometer(I know but I needed something) and innovate.

I didn't realize that I didn't post how often I change my oil, usually its every 3k miles unless I'm going back n forth to Colorado and New Mexico, then the interval is longer because I have no place to change the oil. No more then 5k miles though.
Thank you for the additional info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Summer View Post
Testing ethanol is important. The % changes so much due to the non regulations on it. Using the same station doesn't mean the % is consistent. But I did the same before I got my zeintronix
Agreed, I always made sure to run a map that would be appropriate with the ethanol grade as well.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:37 PM   #23
ToyotaMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some dude View Post
With the leak down test on cyl 1, where was it leaking from? You expected to see broken rings, so the gas was leaking out the oil filler neck?
Correct, leaking out of oil cap only. You could literally make a difference in the sound covering your hand over cap, it was leaking pretty good.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:53 PM   #24
ToyotaMike
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Do these pistons sometimes "fracture" were you may not be able to see the crack by eye ?
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaMike View Post


Agreed, I always made sure to run a map that would be appropriate with the ethanol grade as well.
did dave give you an e70 map as well? i tested the one station by me once and rolled the dice for the entire summer at that station, needless to say im plan on the ziextronics unit this spring
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